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Author Topic: Swing Control  (Read 8845 times)
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sx976
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« Reply #100 on: August 06, 2019, 08:19:19 AM »

The cheap Chinese reel came and it looks incredibly promising. It's just a tad over 2 ins in diameter. I have limited the line length to give the 31 feet that I know works with the heavier models. I have loosened off the brake so that it turns freely in both directions and I can rub my finger either on the reel or the thread to slow down the letting out.

Looking forward to trying it out!!!
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OZPAF
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« Reply #101 on: August 06, 2019, 08:41:22 PM »

That should work well with a single line!

John
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sx976
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« Reply #102 on: August 07, 2019, 02:56:59 AM »

That should work well with a single line!

John

Thanks John. I think so too!!!

With this kind of reel you have to choose either left handed or right handed. I chose left handed as I am right handed (!) and prefer to hold the pole in that hand!

Here's a couple more photos :
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sx976
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« Reply #103 on: August 07, 2019, 03:28:47 AM »

I need some HELP, please !!!

I have been looking at ways to improve the setup for small, light models where the rod does not have a reel. I am rather baffled by what I read on the internet. Here in Germany there is :

First Photo : A 'Stipprute' which is telescopic, has a simple attachment ring at the tip and no guide rings. The sections are usually 115 cm long and the rods can be bought from 3m - 12m typically. The nearest English translation I have found is 'Telescopic Rod without rings'.

Second and Third Photo : A 'Kopfrute' which is similar, but has a rubber cord through the middle and the line comes out of the tip.
The nearest English translation I have found is 'Telescopic Rod without rings with the line guided through the centre of the rod'. Hmmm…...

Does anyone know any better English translations? On the 'Kopfrute', what is the function of the rubber cord? Is it just easier storage? Or limit the jerk when the fish bites? This is a fascinating looking device!!

I have ordered a new 3 metre pole described as a 'Stipprute', so I presume it will have the simple attachment ring (which is fine).  In any case, either of these devices would be a big improvement over the bamboo canes that Pole Flyers were using in the 1940's.

PS - It should be obvious that my knowledge of fishing and fishing rods is ZERO!!




 
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sx976
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« Reply #104 on: August 07, 2019, 03:48:09 AM »

By the way……..

What the heck is the English translation of 'Stonfo' which every good 'Stipprute' needs!! Is it 'Tip Adapter' Huh

My first French flea market rod had no rings and one of these (which I cut off). So I guess I had unknowingly bought a Stipprute with Stonfo!!

Zut alors!!

No, I'm not particularly interested in the French translation of Stipprute with Stonfo!!  Cheesy

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oldgit
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« Reply #105 on: August 07, 2019, 07:48:57 AM »

It's not the thickness that counts, it the breaking strain. the last thing you want is a plane catapulted off when the line breaks.
I would test the breaking strain of the tread and buy flourocarbon rig line with a breaking strain at least equal to your test.

rig material is very stiff this is one example https://www.amazon.co.uk/Korda-Fluorocarbon-11-3kg-0-55mm-kboom55/dp/B01N5EYG59/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Korda+Boom+Fluorocarbon&qid=1565172773&s=gateway&sr=8-1
main line is more supple just googling fluorocarbon will give you lots to choose from. these tend to come on much larger spools.

the Stipprute photo shows a telescopic Roach Pole. these can be used to catch Carp (the name roach shows what they were originally designed to catch). the problem with this is they are very strong and can break the line. A way round the problem is to elasticate(add a rubber shock absorber) the line. this method is typically used with Kopfrute (second and third photo) style roach pole where the sections are either put in or put over joints.

the Kopfrute style roach pole can come with a selection of interchangable top 3 sections ready made up for you with different power elastic preloaded.
if buying the pole without the conversion you have to cut the top wire ring off and then glue the new hollow tip piece on the end. once set you tie the quick change line holder to one end of the rubber and tread the rest into the pole and secure it with the bung at the tension you require.
when you hook a fish this rubber extends out of the new top eye and cushions the power of the fish so that the line does not break .


as you might be able to guess my other hobby is fishing.

pic of self with a mirror Carp

Roger 
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sx976
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« Reply #106 on: August 07, 2019, 01:37:37 PM »

Roger

Thank you very much for taking the time to explain this to me so precisely!! I read on a German website that the elastic shock cord was an English invention. Yeaahhh!! But, obviously, it has no place in Whip Control.

The simple 3-segment 3 metre Roach Pole/Stipprute came today and it has a small ring on the tip. I lashed on a swivel. Beautiful quality for under €10 and just the simple solution I need for small, light models. I chose the line length so that the model would not touch the ground with the arm and pole held vertically (no helper needed to launch). From the bottom of the pole to the end of the line it turned out at about 26 feet. That'll do.

I have some weight lifting weights to hold down parts being glued etc, so I used them for an improvised thread strength test. The thread held at 8.5 Kg, but broke at 10 Kg. The force to lift the thread against the weights was waaaaaay above the pull on the line when flying. The heaviest model I am flying at the moment is under 200g. What G-force should I take, 3 at the most including a safety factor. So that's still under 1 Kg !! I'll check out the Amazon site. Thanks for the recommendation!!

That's a wonderful Carp you have there!!   
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sx976
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« Reply #107 on: August 14, 2019, 01:32:40 PM »

I tried out the last two rods shown and it was the breakthrough I was hoping for. Great stuff, everything worked brilliantly!!

As there is little detailed information around, here is what is working for me :

Fixed Length Pole and Thread.
3-section composite, no rings :

Pole length : 9ft 1ins
Thread length : 15ft 0ins
Total length : 24ft 1ins

Model tested : X-22 foamie. Unballasted. 310mm span / 46g weight

There is a swivel about 4ins away from the thread tether hook on the pole. If you get giddy, you can stand still and keep whipping the model.

Pole with Thread on mini Chinese Fishing Reel.
6-section composite. Was 7-section, but I removed the very thin top section. Number of rings reduced to 3.

Pole length : 10ft 6ins
Thread length beyond tip of pole with reel fully wound out : 20ft 9ins
Total length : 31ft 3ins

Model tested : Alpha Jet. Ballasted. 470mm span / 67g weight

I am sure there is a lot of stretch in these numbers, but this is what is currently working well. Both of these poles work without the need of anyone helping!

I am now moving on to a two line system with a model that has Elevator Control. I have started to build the model. More info to come as it becomes available.
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sx976
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« Reply #108 on: August 14, 2019, 04:00:45 PM »

Sorry. The ballasted Alpha Jet weighs 130g. I basically doubled its weight from 67g.
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« Reply #109 on: August 15, 2019, 03:04:25 AM »

Good news SX. How much slack or bow do you notice in the lines?

John
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sx976
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« Reply #110 on: August 15, 2019, 03:20:02 AM »

I hope to fly again tomorrow. If I can photograph it, I will. In any case I'll take note and let you know.
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« Reply #111 on: August 15, 2019, 03:29:35 AM »

Thanks SX.
John
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sx976
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« Reply #112 on: August 16, 2019, 02:27:03 AM »

Here's a bit of self motivation……… the current progress on my Elevator Control model.

I chose the Brewster Bermuda for the following reasons :

- Long nose

- Mid wing so that the bellcrank is underneath the wing, not on top (ugly!!)

- Deep fuselage for strength

- It's not a Spitfire, P-51, Me 109, Corsair...……..

I am using some incredibly heavy balsa from my scrap box. It's a good way to get rid of it. I usually build very light indoor RC models.

The span is 18 ins.

Chris P
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« Reply #113 on: August 16, 2019, 03:54:03 PM »

Good news SX. How much slack or bow do you notice in the lines?

John
Pretty rotten photos, but it's hard flying and taking a photo at the same time!!

The X-22 was the unballasted one flying on the fixed length pole. The pole still has the flexible tip (the bend is clearly visible), but the line has hardly any bow to it.

Chris P
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« Reply #114 on: August 16, 2019, 03:55:50 PM »

The Alpha Jet is ballasted and flying on the pole with the mini reel. As the top segment was removed, the bend in the rod is significantly less than in the fixed length rod. The line also has hardly any bow to it.

Chris P
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« Reply #115 on: August 16, 2019, 04:17:12 PM »

I took a photo of the test fleet before starting. The black Revell Space Glider has proved impossible to trim, suffered damage as a result and will be disposed of.

The tiny Guillows Rockstar and the Zyro-6 are only suitable for indoors and I will not be building models this small again.

The Eagle is a good flyer, but I will have to fit a carbon rod reinforcement after he broke his beak in a landing!

The white Guillows Sky Raider shows promise, but would benefit from ballasting as it is very light. I intend to paint is as one of those Geman paper project jet bombers from the end of the war.

The absolute stars are the grey foamie X-18's and X-22's which fly really well in both ballasted and unballasted version. At only €8 they are a perfect starting point for anyone wanting to build a Whip Control model. Just don't forget the reinforcing carbon rod inserted through the nose.

The Lidl Glider, C-17 Transport, Pole Cat and Alpha Jet all fly well.

The yellow Piper Cub bobbles about in the wind as it only has a fuselage tether. I'll probably add a tip guide, but it may break the fragile wings.

Chris P
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« Reply #116 on: August 17, 2019, 05:36:43 AM »

Thanks for the photos SX. I have a cheap rod and reel for a F16 (balsa profile) that I was going to fly with elevator control with dual lines. The top ring on the rod will need to be divided to keep the lines separate.

You have stirred my interest again - I may even get to finish the beast.

Cheers
John
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sx976
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« Reply #117 on: August 17, 2019, 12:39:10 PM »

Thanks for the photos SX. I have a cheap rod and reel for a F16 (balsa profile) that I was going to fly with elevator control with dual lines. The top ring on the rod will need to be divided to keep the lines separate.

You have stirred my interest again - I may even get to finish the beast.

Cheers
John
Good to hear!!!

I think that usually both lines are routed through the same ring, but there's no reason why you shouldn't try try splitting them. I have no practical experience (yet).

When I get the Bermuda finished, I will fly it first on a single line to get the CG in the right place before trying to fly it on elevator. Maybe attach temporary lines to the bellcrank which are tied together beyond the line guide and then attach these to the single line? I need to try out various possibilities on the workbench.

I have also just invested in a brand new 6 metre carbon rod without rings. I had some Pay Pal credit, so the decision was easy. Only €24,99 as there are irregularities in the paint scheme (and I don't care a bit!!). Being carbon, at 360g it is as light as my shorter fibreglass rods. I want to find the biggest radius I can fly at with a fixed length line rod. As it is in sections, I can easily remove segments if I have gone too far -  which is probably the case. 

Re single line models. I have been trimming them using lead weights. I am now getting down to fine tuning and find that adjustable elevators are very useful. The elevators on my Pole Cat can be adjusted and it was much easier than using tiny bits of lead. In the future I will build all single line models with adjustable elevators (basically tin plate hinges or the like). Maybe upgrade a few of the old ones too.

Chris P
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« Reply #118 on: August 18, 2019, 06:16:57 AM »

Outerzone has just published a profile F-105 Thunderchief that looks ideal for Whip Control!!

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=11448
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« Reply #119 on: August 19, 2019, 02:07:24 PM »

Here are the learnings from today's flying :

I realized that the Revell Space Glider could not be trimmed as the effective tailplane area on the V-tail was tiny. So I added a tailplane. I didn't spend time making it look pretty, I just wanted the results first. The flight was brilliant - very stable. Then it did its usual trick of landing right wing low and tore off the outer portion of the RH wing. Again. It's definitely going in the bin now.

Despite early promise, I had big problems with the metal Chinese mini reel. The thread kept slipping off down the side of the reel and jamming up. I had brought a rod with me I had temporarily converted to pole flying with a spinning reel. It worked brilliantly!! The reel is a bit large in size. I think there are smaller ones on the market.

THE SENSATION :  Just before leaving for the field, the 6 metre ringless carbon rod I had ordered, arrived. At the field I put on 6 metres of thread and a hook and attached it to my indestructable Lidl Glider (AUW just over 200 grams). It worked!! Needs a bit of technique (like starting with the hand half way up the rod), but it definitely works. We're up to a 40 feet radius now!!

Chris P

 
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« Reply #120 on: August 19, 2019, 08:57:45 PM »

40' - that's getting impressive!. My first CL model only flew on 35' (from memory) with it's 1cc ED Bee motor.

John
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