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Author Topic: Eze Dope Question  (Read 1400 times)
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BalsaGuy55
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« on: January 26, 2018, 04:13:11 PM »

I'm building a series 500 Guillows FW190 and decided to try Eze Dope to seal the tissue.  I'm using Easy Build Models brown domestic tissue.

I shrank the tissue with water and it looked fine on all parts of the plane.  I then brushed on Eze Dope using a 70 water/30Eze Dope solution.

The result was ok except for a a stringy white appearance on mostly the wings and stabilizer.  I can't tell if it is coming from the Eze Dope or the tissue, although it was not apparent until I used the Eze Dope.

I've posted some pics below to try and show what it looks like.  Has anyone else had this issue and is there anything that can be done to prevent it?

I like the idea of using Eze Dope because of the lack of smell and I am sensitive to the regular dope.  I previously used 50/50 Elmers glue and water which works ok, but has problems on a high humidity day.

It's kind of a bummer because the tissue covering went really well up to this point.

Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Eze Dope Question
Eze Dope Question
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Glenn (gravitywell) Reach
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« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2018, 05:28:56 PM »

I hope you don't mind me also asking an Ezedope question on your thread, but I saw some on Amazon for $52 CDN for 250ml. is this a good price and if not, where else would I get some in Canada?
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Glenn Reach
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TheLurker
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« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2018, 05:30:26 PM »

It can give a streaky finish, but once you get the hang of it it's pretty good.

Received wisdom has it that sponge "brushes" are the way to go with Eze-Dope.
And the recommend shrink is with a 5% sol'n of ED rather than plain water.

http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=21362.msg212011#msg212011

I get OK results with a standard brush, but I apply sparingly.  See my comment on the linked thread.
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billdennis747
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« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2018, 05:50:39 PM »

15 dollars in UK. I would dope outside.
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BalsaGuy55
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« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2018, 05:58:15 PM »

It can give a streaky finish, but once you get the hang of it it's pretty good.

Received wisdom has it that sponge "brushes" are the way to go with Eze-Dope.
And the recommend shrink is with a 5% sol'n of ED rather than plain water.

http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=21362.msg212011#msg212011

I get OK results with a standard brush, but I apply sparingly.  See my comment on the linked thread.

Thanks for the info. about shrinking with 5% EzeDope. I started with a a sponge brush on the wing (based on information I had read) and it immediately had the white stringy results.  I then went back to a regular brush and it also produced the white stringy results.

Actually, I think your posted photo on the link doesn't look too different from mine regarding the finish.  Maybe this is just how Eze Dope works.  I may go back to using 50/50 Elmers glue and water to seal.  Thanks.  Smiley

  
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Monz
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« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2018, 08:03:22 PM »

It's not the tissue.

This stuff really isn't all it's cracked up to be (as with most of the deluxe range). Yes, I'm a deluxe detractor.

I found that the best result the few times I used it was with about a 5% solution with water, brushed on. When brushing, dip the brush then pull the brush on the side of the container to remove most of it off, then apply to the model sparingly. Brush slowly, without overlapping, in one direction. Soon as it's seems to be pulling, reload the brush, remove most of it again and repeat, being careful to not go over where you have before while that's still wet.

Allow to dry completely before re-coating or else you'll get the same effect as if you're peeling dried pva off your fingers. Two to three coats should suffice depending on tissue porosity.

It is heavy and doesn't hold up to humidity very well, nevermind the price...

As Bill suggests - dope outside.
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BalsaGuy55
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« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2018, 09:00:29 PM »

As Bill suggests - dope outside.

I'd have to use a respirator and rubber gloves even if it was outside.  When I was younger, I was exposed to all kinds of chemicals working in the oilfields before OSHA and it causes me problems with strong smelling stuff now.  I use a respirator even to paint with Testor's.  That's why I was attracted to Eze Dope.  I can use it inside without the hassle of being outside in the cold using a respirator.
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billdennis747
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« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2018, 02:50:53 AM »

As Bill suggests - dope outside.

I'd have to use a respirator and rubber gloves even if it was outside.  When I was younger, I was exposed to all kinds of chemicals working in the oilfields before OSHA and it causes me problems with strong smelling stuff now.  I use a respirator even to paint with Testor's.  That's why I was attracted to Eze Dope.  I can use it inside without the hassle of being outside in the cold using a respirator.
That's a shame - hope you can make it work for you.
58 dollars is absurd.
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2018, 04:39:03 AM »

I really like Eze-dope as a finish, although I haven't really seen how it fairs in humid conditions yet and have only doped a couple of models with it so far. I think you do have to  follow all the advice re dilution ratios though, and also be really careful not to let it puddle as you apply it. As it is pretty much useless if used neat, I don't really understand why it isn't sold with more water in it to start with- which would presumably make it cheaper too. Or at least with clear instructions to stop you wrecking your model.
 Even with all the warnings and precautions heeded, I think you'll still probably still get a few of the little white flecks sometimes. They show up much more on darker tissues though (unsurprisingly). One thing I like about it is that the tissue keeps its opaqueness and colour better with with ordinary dope.
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« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2018, 05:07:56 AM »

It's not the tissue.

This stuff really isn't all it's cracked up to be (as with most of the deluxe range). Yes, I'm a deluxe detractor.

I found that the best result the few times I used it was with about a 5% solution with water, brushed on...

It is heavy and doesn't hold up to humidity very well, nevermind the price...

As Bill suggests - dope outside.

I don't use it, dope is simpler, quicker to apply and less fraught.  However I have used it successfully as a trial, and I got a very nice glossy surface which took decals and was resistant to damp and humidity.  If I have read you post right Monz you brushed on a 5% solution?  This may be where your issue is.  I used a 5% solution is a sprayer to shrink, and then brushed on a 30% solution.

As to the price, you are dead right.  The jars are simply far too big, if they were 1/4 of the size and 1/3 of the price it would make much more sense, you could do half a dozen KK flying scale sized models with that amount.  There are no instructions which is frustrating, but then again there is nothing on tins of dope to suggest it is thinned 50/50.

I don't use any of their other products, it seem daft to use speciality products at a speciality price when stuff you can buy from staples, ASDA and Wilko at half the price work perfectly well.

Andrew
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DWCollins
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« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2018, 09:01:42 AM »

I have not used it but it sounds like water based polyurethane has anyone compared the two ?
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dieterperiperi
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« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2018, 09:38:41 AM »

I have also had good results recently with eze dope, and also found it to be reasonably water/moisture resistant. After some test pieces i settled on 30/70 eze dope/rubbing alcohol for delicate part prone warping. I dont pre-shrink the esaki lite flite i use.
Application is very critical, ive had the white steaks also, a combination of too stong a solution and to heavy a coat. This is where i found the rubbing alcohol works. I think it help to spread the eze dope.

Pretty good stuff in my opinion. But one needs to get used to it.

Best of luck
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faif2d
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« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2018, 10:39:27 AM »

I have never even see this product but my wife, the artist, has used several products to shrink and seal canvas or linen on the frame.  I wonder if this is what the product is?  It has to be something that has been re purpsed as our market is to small to make something just for it.
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MarcusJ
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« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2018, 09:41:33 AM »

I hope you don't mind me also asking an Ezedope question on your thread, but I saw some on Amazon for $52 CDN for 250ml. is this a good price and if not, where else would I get some in Canada?

That's an insane price.  I suspect it's 'bot generated, not based on real retail.  Most places are around $16 CDN a bottle.
http://www.greathobbies.com/productinfo/?prod_id=DXMBD42
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TheLurker
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« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2018, 08:11:25 AM »

More EzeDope experimentation from The Lurker Industries' R&D Dept.

Having just patched up the wing on a NMF model, and regarding the patched up wing as sacrifical, I thought I'd try using an atomiser to apply the 30% coat rather than brushing it on for the reasons outlined below.  It seems to have worked rather well.  See the attachments1.  One shows the "oxidation" effect, near the top of the picture, caused by colour lift noted below. The other the "sprayed" wing. There's a little bit of speckle, but I'm well content.  No streaking and I can't see any colour lift.


Background.
On the couple of models I've built so far using domestic Ag/Al tissue I've found that even very careful brushing on of the 30% coat results in some of the Ag/Al colour lifting showing the underlying grey carrier.  It's not a major issue and on a scale aircraft it gives a realistic oxidation patch effect but it's not an effect I want on all my models.


Note for UK readers.
The atomisers sold by Boots in their travel section are very, very good.  They deliver a fine spray with good mixing and are far better than anything I've found in art supply shops.  However, if you do buy any do be careful.  That fine spray carries a lot more fluid than you might expect and I ended up with the lower wing surface stuck to the board because I'd overwet it.  Many bad words were said.

1 - The bits of balsa strip in the images are to provide a focal point for the automatic gubbins in my camera.  All very clever, but sometimes one longs for a simple manual system.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Eze Dope Question
Re: Eze Dope Question
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DavidJP
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« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2018, 08:51:48 AM »

Hmmm... it certainly seems to have been improved. 

But for the moment I will stay with dope - used it for nearly seventy years and bit old now to change.  I last bought some from John Hook - a bottle full - best part of, if not actually, a litre which I thin 50/50 and gives me a lot of dope.  The last bottle of Eze I saw was I think 250ml at £8 plus. About what I paid John for bottle full of dope. Eze is a lot of money in comparison.  And I have confidence with the performance of dope. Devil you know and all that.

I have one of those atomisers Lurker and yes they are good - never used them for spraying a finish - just water to shrink tissue - it is a very fine mist so holding the part a suitable distance away you can regulate the amount of water very well - barely damp to sodden!
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TheLurker
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« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2018, 01:34:06 PM »

Quote from: DavidJP
But for the moment I will stay with dope...
If you've got using dope taped then that makes good sense, but I was away from aeromodelling for so long EzeDope (and I still think it's a damn silly name)  felt like a reasonable thing to try.  I don't think it gives as robust a finish as I remember getting with dope, but it's good enough and it allows me to work indoors in the winter without having to deal with noxious fumes.

Quote from: DavidJP
...holding the part a suitable distance away you can regulate the amount of water very well - barely damp to sodden!
Yeah.  This was the first time I'd used the new atomisers and I hadn't calibrated the distance and dosage correctly.  I used them as I would have done the atomisers I've been using up until now so thought it was worth highlighting that the Boots atomisers are ummm, effective.
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TheLurker
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« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2018, 03:40:42 PM »

Yet more EzeDope experimentation from The Lurker Industries' R&D Dept.

Applying tissue decoration to EzeDoped tissue.  Just stick the tissue down with 30% solution.  I was expecting to have to fiddle with thinned PVA, but amazingly Deluxe (a world first for Deluxe?) actually say this on the tub so I gave it a bash.  The shapes are a bit ropey cos I was hacking them out free-hand but they went on pretty easily.  See attachment.
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Re: Eze Dope Question
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TheLurker
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« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2018, 10:15:17 AM »

Lurker Industries Aviation Company.
Memorandum R&D-EZD/DT/PVA-001

If using domestic tissue for decoration, especially thin cheat lines, don't use the 30% solution to try and stick it down.  You won't be able to maintain any sort of tension on the line without it disintegrating.

What does work is; stick the end down with the tiniest smear of glue from a glue stick on the mounting surface.  Let it dry thoroughly before using thinned PVA (I generally use about 50:50) to stick the decorative element down. A tiny, tiny bit a blu-tack on the end of the free end of line helps maintain tension without ripping it apart. 

You might also find the following useful if using domestic tissue for lettering.

 Draw the lightest of HB lines for the top line of each character & very light HB dots for spacing.
 For each character use a flattened toothpick to smear the _tiniest_ amount of glue stick at "corners".
 Manoeuvre into place with a dry 00 paintbrush and a bit of sotto voce swearing.
 Press the sticky "corners" down very, very gently with a flattened toothpick or the end of the brush handle.
 Wander off for ten minutes or so to let the glue dry thoroughly.
 Slather thinned PVA overall.

Some hours later use a small piece of freshly cut india rubber to remove the guide lines. Gently!  The guidelines really do have to be as light as possible consistent with you being able to see them. And don't get PVA over them or you won't be able to rub them off.

Using the glue stick allows a small amount of wriggle room for lifting and repositioning the letter/number that using 30% EzeDope or thinned PVA doesn't.  Makes the whole process a good deal less fraught.

Attachments show the results of my attempts; which are not great make but me think that it should be possible to achieve very good results with a bit more practice.

Lurk.
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Re: Eze Dope Question
Re: Eze Dope Question
Re: Eze Dope Question
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DavidJP
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« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2018, 01:33:27 PM »

Clever clogs!
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