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Author Topic: Attempt to build a F1Q  (Read 939 times)
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USch
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« on: March 24, 2018, 01:14:07 PM »

Help needed. In these last month I am trying to build a (hopefully) competitive F1Q.

The forward fuselage is very similar to a modern Wakefield, carbon tube and a small pylon to house the timer, energy counter and servo for D/T, VIT and wing wiggler.
But now I am stuck with the wing wiggler!!!
 
I have never seen the inside of a F1B model and dont know how it moves up and down the rear location pin and how it is connected to the timer.
Anybody out there has a sketch or picture to explain the miracle Huh  Huh  Roll Eyes

Urs
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Starduster
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« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2018, 01:45:08 PM »

I'm wondering about the usefulness of a wiggler for 'Q'. From my understanding, the wiggler is primarily there to control the high initial torque of the "burst". As a 'Q' would have a fairly smooth power curve, I would think the wiggler would add unnecessary complexity.
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Tmat
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« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2018, 02:57:57 PM »

A wiggler could be useful for F1Q. It allows you to separate the warps for the spiral power climb and the glide for thermal seeking behavior. I would expect to use very slight asymmetric warps for the glide, but I'd want to use a fair bit of wash-in on the inside wing to keep the inside wing up in the climb.

Tony
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« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2018, 03:56:43 PM »

Urs,

Here is drawing of an early 1990s Andriukov wing wiggler mechanism. Note that the line to the timer attaches to small hole in the lever (just below the G in Wing).  Years ago I made several of these from 1.25 inch aluminum rod---bore pivot hole though aluminum, then turn three disc, then file away most of the discs leaving the three arms. (Be sure to offset the longer arm slight so you can insert wire into shorter arms.) Alex no longer uses this mechanism. The new wing wiggler mechanism is much smaller and lighter. You can see photographs on Alex's website: www.andriukov.com. Weight is 1.2g.

Louis
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USch
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« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2018, 05:43:32 AM »

How nice to have friends all over the world which can give advices in no time, thanks guy's  Grin Grin Grin Kiss Kiss Kiss

Starduster, probably you are right about the slow climb of these F1Q. The model will weigh 250-300g for a 21dm2 wing. So climb will be with less than 30W/sec (J) without variation of torque.
But as I am at it I feel it's easier to build in the WW and not use it against not having it and have to make an after-fit for it. Same idea for the VIT, if you have provided for you wont use it, if not.....
As for warps I already build in more wash-out in the left tip than in the right one to have a basic asymmetry in the wing.
Louis, thank you for the sketch, I dont realize exactly how the third arm is connected to the timer and what's the hook on it is used.

Urs
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« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2018, 08:33:16 AM »

Urs;

There is a small hole in the top of the arm; a line attaches there and runs forward to the timer. There is a notch in the left side of the pylon to allow the line to pass from inside the pylon to the outside.

I have no idea what the hook on that arm is for. One guess is that could be an attachment point for a coil spring running the rear, but I'd think that a hole would be a more secure way to attach a spring. Notice that the hook does not show on the sketch of the pylon. It appears that the wing wiggler in the drawing uses a spring coiled around the tubular transverse portion of the wing wiggler to provide the rearward motion.

I made several of this type of wing wiggler back in the 1990s. They work fine but were heavier and took up much more space in the pylon than do the new ones that Alex sells now. His new (i.e. mid-1990s) start switch for mechanical timers is also much improved over the bent wire device in the drawing.

Louis

PS:
There is a post on Hip Pocket about wing wigglers for F1B-based F1Q models: Free Flight>Rubber> F1B Wakefield Timer Lines. See reply #11 Dec 16, 2016
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didierlouis
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« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2018, 08:31:07 AM »

Hi Urs

Here the picture of Gorban F1B & F1G wing wigglers.
I have them in stock and can send it easily in a letter.

Hope it can help.

Take care.

Didier
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USch
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« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2018, 09:53:26 AM »

Hi Didier, nice to hear from you  Grin
I will send you a PM

Urs
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USch
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« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2018, 12:15:00 PM »

And here the final result of this first F1Q.

Nothing special, I had in mind to build a first F1Q using the taco shells of the E-36 build before. And I did not want to go to the extreme of the category resulting in a near 3m model, just something small and handy. It really is a big Wakefield with a 21 dm2 wing.

In this category you have only a very small amount of energy to work with. It is probably less energy than what’s in the chewing gum your chewing right now.
This model at a flying weight of 270g has only 810 J at disposition for the climb and if you will spread it on the maximum allowed motor time, 30 sec., it means you have to climb with 27W (about 11V and 2,5A). That is less than half we used to pull out from a Speed 400 20 years ago! To climb efficiently with 27W you need a light motor with lots of torque to swing a big propeller like a F1B. However, there are not many motors on the market with the right data’s. The ideal combination would be an inrunner with a great reduction box up front, something like 10:1. However, not even the Chinese build such low power motors and gearboxes. The best I could find was the Hacker A10-13L 4,4:1 that weighs 20g, has a 1300 rpm/V on the motor shaft but is an outrunner. Trying a few propellers I settled temporarily for a 13” x 7”.
Fuselage is a simple tube with a new moulding for the pylon. The pylon itself houses all the electronics, servo, timer, start button, wing wiggler (not yet functional) and energy limiter, except the GPS beacon. To help installation I moulded it in fibreglass rather than carbon. Fiberglass has also the advantage that you can see the indications of the energy limiter and update the timer through the transparency.
Tomorrow the first serious outing to see if and how it fly’s

Urs
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