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Author Topic: Keil Kraft Flying Scale Series Erco Ercoupe  (Read 3685 times)
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« on: May 27, 2018, 04:07:18 PM »

Hi all,

This is my prospective kit scale build for the indoor Nats 2019.

This model holds a special place in my heart, as the first scale model that I actually got to fly.  And since Keil Kraft dropped it from the range in the eighties, the one I built must have been the “Millington” boxed kit as shown that I now have in my collection.  I remember cycling to Chappels in Long Eaton to buy the kit.  A strange shop, not only did he sell models, dope, balsa etc, but football boots and kits!

I must have been 13 or 14, and I simply remember gawping as it actaully gained altitude when I launched it and flew rather than just being a powered glide.

Unlike the Spitfire and Hurricanes that I had built to this point, I seem to remember that the rubber wasn’t silly thick so didn’t crumple the nose when I wound it up.

Anyhow, this isn’t a laser cut build, so I spent a happy day cutting bits out from copies of the kit parts and finished up by starting the construction of the fuslage, nothing spectacular, in fact it’s pretty minimal, so with the wing area available, it should float pretty nicely.

You might notice the very tiny and silly nose wheel in the kit and on the plan, needless to say I will make something up a little more scale...

Andrew
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Keil Kraft Flying Scale Series Erco Ercoupe
Keil Kraft Flying Scale Series Erco Ercoupe
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Snaky Stringer
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« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2018, 05:41:44 PM »

I have built more than one KK Ercoupe, not sure now how many, but they did fly a bit. I have an almost flyable one in my refurbishment queue, but if I remember correctly I decided shortly after I built it that it needed a new, lighter wing. That was a good few years ago but somehow it never got its new wing. It has detachable wing and tail held on by rubber bands. I'm sure an invisible attachment is possible. It also lacks pilot and passenger, which I may attend to in due course. At present it's in a simple yellow scheme and will probably stay that way. The Comet Ercoupe looks very nice and is a bit bigger and possibly more accurate, but I can't say for sure. My box is the same is yours - indeed I may have more than one box.
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ZK-AUD
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« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2018, 06:32:09 PM »

Andrew I have looked at this one on OZ and felt morally certain that it would fly well.  I will follow this with interest.  A couple of years ago I did a trip to the US and on the side of the road out to Grand Canyon we passed an Ercoupe just sitting there in the desert and a little while later a Connie.  Believe it or not!
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Snaky Stringer
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« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2018, 04:34:32 AM »

Now the Connie is a tricky subject for rubber. I made a Connie chuck glider a long time ago but it was not a success. Perhaps a Conne no-cal would be feasible.
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abl
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« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2018, 06:59:40 AM »

> This is my prospective kit scale build for the indoor Nats 2019. ...

I don't think I ever built one of these, or saw anyone else build one. Watching with interest.

> You might notice the very tiny and silly nose wheel in the kit and on the plan, needless to say I will make something up a little more scale...

Definitely worth it, in my view, even though it'll no doubt incur some penalty points. Do you think they'll do you for the full five points, or have you got a lengthy and believable excuse at the ready to suggest that a fair and reasonable judge might feel that a deduction of a single point is more appropriate?

A.
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2018, 07:16:50 AM »

Looing forward to this too, Andrew! Very nice to see these more unusual subjects appearing.
(And you won't incur any penalty for changing the nosewheel will you? Wheels are one of the things you specifically ARE allowed to change.)
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« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2018, 08:57:11 AM »

I am looking forward to this also Andrew.    Regarding all of these contest "rules", if you are allowed to change the wheels, would the following pic qualify and allow you to change the wheels to "floats" ?

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Richard
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Re: Keil Kraft Flying Scale Series Erco Ercoupe
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OH, I HAVE SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS OF EARTH ... UP, UP THE LONG DELIRIOUS BURNING BLUE ... SUNWARD I'VE CLIMBED AND JOINED THE TUMBLING MIRTH OF SUN-SPLIT CLOUDS ...
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« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2018, 09:30:16 AM »

I believe that officially the wheels are not judged, although it didn’t stop my Harvard form being docked a few years back when I made the wheels a more scale size than the silly little ones in the Veron kit.  They look even more silly on WW1 types, but these were pocket money kits back in the day, so you got pocket money wheels...

The judges occasionally miss things, like they also docked me for the paper cowel on the Harvard - not on the plan but detailed in the instructions (so should have been ok).  BUT they are only human, and there is a lot for them to do.  So I made it policy moving forwards that I shall add notes to my entry form on the day to clarify such things...

As for floats, I really don’t know,  and in the sprit of not making things more difficult for myself I ain’t gonna find out!  Grin Cheesy

Andrew

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Indoorflyer
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« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2018, 10:12:28 AM »

Hi Andrew-- as long as your nosewheel tire is a smaller diameter than the mains, you should be OK. Maybe something halfway between the kit-supplied nose and main would do the trick. The little nosewheel is a prominent feature of the full scale 'coupe. The landing gear really looks spindly in flight, when "unloaded", and the smaller tire in front tends to draw attention...

http://3ukr694671p02fhcme3a1bsaiek-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Osh14_TVR_Ercoupe_NC94196__DSC1139.jpg
« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 11:36:51 AM by Indoorflyer » Logged

Make the same mistake on both sides; nobody will notice...
abl
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« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2018, 11:26:59 AM »

...

(And you won't incur any penalty for changing the nosewheel will you? Wheels are one of the things you specifically ARE allowed to change.)

Pete, you are of course entirely correct. I'll get back in my box now.

A.
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« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2018, 12:30:42 PM »

It's a rule I'm familiar with since the year I substituted the round wheels on my Storch for long flat 'snow wheels' (also sometimes known as 'skis'). Actually, I never really checked to see if I was penalised for that. Don't think so.
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« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2018, 12:50:23 PM »

Thanks indoor flyer, I think that you are right on the size, I think along the lines of around 3/4”, as against the 1” of the main gear should look about right having done a bit of scaling and measuring of a number of three views...

It’s worth a mention Abl, I think it is something that some people don’t remember about the rules...  Grin

Andrew



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« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2018, 05:45:02 PM »

I spent most of the day adding the stringers, well I say most of the day, perhaps 15 minutes every hour or so, gradually adding them to make sure the fuselage stayed straight.  Unlike the VMC kits, these don’t have a substantial hard balsa side keel, so with the light balsa that I used for the main keel a decent amount of attention and patience was required to key things from going all banana-ery shaped.  The two lower stringers that go beneath the wing are fitted once the wing is in place...

Next to the wings..
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Re: Keil Kraft Flying Scale Series Erco Ercoupe
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« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2018, 06:16:53 PM »

Hi Andrew, lookks good and it happens to be one of my milestone models of the past too.

Well, not the Keil Kraft version but the Comet one. It was the second model I ever built. But it did not fly at all Embarrassed. The first was also a Comet kit, the Aeronca K seaplane, that also did not fly... 1984...

I have built the Aeronca again at a later day, but not the Ercoupe, although I purchased a kit again and often thought about it.

So I 'll be watching your build with great interest and nostalgia... And if it flies like I expect from you, the nostalgia will get bigger...

George
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« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2018, 06:52:13 PM »

I fished mine out of the cellar today, with two tail units, one much lighter than the other but in need of repair. The heavier one needs re-covering in the same colour (yellow) and I also found photos of a yellow and black or possibly yellow and dark blue or green Ercoupe or Aircoupe on the internet, actually two in more or less the same scheme, one with a British registration and the other with a US registration. Mine has balsa main wheels but they will need to be re-done as they don't turn very well and a plastic nose wheel which will also have to be replaced and no doubt made a bit thicker and bigger in diameter. The propeller and nose button seem to be in hiding but perhaps a bit of rummaging will dig them out, otherwise a replacement will need to be fashioned. It's a bit heavy at something like 32g without propeller but showing signs of 'glideability' across the living room into an armchair.It could make its first flight in something like thirty years soon. 
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« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2018, 04:07:51 PM »

Thanks guys.  It sounds like I have least rekindled some interest in this aircraft and the previous builds of some of you chaps!

I will be moving on to the wings tonight.  I have cut the ribs out already, after making a very hard balsa one as a master to cut round and add the notches.  I only really do this when the ribs are all the same shape as they are with this machine...

I have to do my work in the week now that I have a young apprentice to work with at the weekends!

Andrew
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« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2018, 04:29:21 PM »

Hi Andrew, I have a couple of good pics of an Ercoupe in my files.  Here it is in all its glory.

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Richard
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Re: Keil Kraft Flying Scale Series Erco Ercoupe
Re: Keil Kraft Flying Scale Series Erco Ercoupe
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« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2018, 05:02:08 PM »

Hi Andrew

I have 20 close up photos of G-HARY - if you are interested pm me.  In the 60s I made a start on the Aeromodeller C/L Ercoupe but never finished it.

Bryan
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« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2018, 11:23:06 AM »

Mine has had a test glide in the garden, without propeller or motor. Looks promising, but I think indicating need for up elevator as balance point is too far aft. It now sports a black tissue cowl front and fuselage stripes that will have to be re-done. Truly hideous, but perhaps with printed tissue will look OK. Test fitting of Peck propeller is on-going. Meanwhile have downloaded the plans for the Comet Ercoupe, which is 24 inch span and appears to me to be much more accurate, although I think the landing gear will need a bit of wire in it. The tail is about half the size of the KK version. I remember an expert, probably Ron Moulton, telling me, at an Old Warden Vintage Day, that the KK Ercoupe had a ridiculously oversize tail, which may be one reason it flies so well. I feel an urge to build to Comet version coming on. 
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« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2018, 11:48:54 AM »

Thanks guys.

As yet I have yet to finally decide on a scheme.  I quite like this one, but need a decent picture of the same aircraft but with a gold stripe down the side, as it looks really nice with that.  But I can only find a part side view of it.

Yup, the tail plane is HUGE!

I finished up the bones today.  Obligatory bare bones picture, all the bits you see stack up to a smidge under 10g.

Andrew

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Re: Keil Kraft Flying Scale Series Erco Ercoupe
Re: Keil Kraft Flying Scale Series Erco Ercoupe
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« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2018, 12:37:11 PM »

Nice bones! Are you going to have the whole nose block removable? Mine has a tiny nose plug which has a tendency to fall out. I used to have one that didn't fall out but I seem to have mislaid it. I have found lots of nice schemes, including a Belgian, OO-PUS, which I may well do next or somewhere down the line. The Comet version looks really nice on paper and there are numbers for the registration and paper patterns for the cabin and for the wing fairings, all of which would print nicely on tissue. One could scale these down to fit the KK model of course. It also has extra riblets in the wing, which I find very tempting.
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« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2018, 12:46:58 PM »

As yet I have yet to finally decide on a scheme.  I quite like this one, but need a decent picture of the same aircraft but with a gold stripe down the side, as it looks really nice with that.

Andrew, I might be missing something, but if you google that example's reg number you get plenty of pictures with the gold stripe don't you?
Eg. http://s782.photobucket.com/user/rickflys/library/Ercoupe%20N2936H?sort=2&page=1
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« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2018, 01:15:42 PM »

Yes Snaky, the nose block will be removeable and retained with magnets.  It’s really the only way to keep the thustlines in check, and make the stretch winding work IMHO.  It is strange, but Albert Hatfull did removeable nose blocks for some of his models but not for others..

Huh!  I didn’t get those, I googled the number too!  I just the one of the back, and a partial one of the side, my googling skills are obviously not as good as yours somehow?  Thanks for that.  The stripe just adds that bit more interest to the whole thing...

Andrew
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« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2018, 02:28:52 PM »

Quick work Andrew!

This is the one I was fancying...

Cheers,

Dan.
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« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2018, 02:35:13 PM »

Nice, but not one to lose in the grass!
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