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Author Topic: Titebond Glue Differences?  (Read 5480 times)
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ram
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« on: August 11, 2009, 10:28:02 AM »

Besides the water resistance differences, are there pros and cons to the different Titebond glues (I, II, III)?

I've been using Titebond II because I already had some from other household projects, but it seems to be on the rubbery side when sanding Undecided. Are the other two types different in this regard? I usually use CA, but sometimes I need a little more time to work.

Do most people prefer one of the types over the others?

Thanks,

Rey
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schnellwilli
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« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2009, 12:06:25 PM »

I used Titebond II for years, thinned down with water 50/50, for applying tissue, Discontinued using it for general construction for the reason you mentioned. The other types of Titebond are also rubbery and difficult to sand. I use Duco now for gap filling and CY on tight joints. If used very sparingly, CY makes a secure, light joint.

Only trouble with using any kind of Titebond for tissue application is that the bond is permanent making it difficult to recover if necessary. Thin, unsupported structure like skimpy TEs may warp as the water/glue mixture is applied but this can be prevented by applying water to the opposite side. The warps generally disappear anyway. It is especially useful for applying tissue to the bottom of undercambered wings because the tissue will never pull away from the frame. Even those who do not like using Titebond for tissue application might consider using it solely for use on UC wings.
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ram
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« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2009, 12:43:55 PM »

Bill,

Thanks for your response. I usually only use it for laminating blocks, which it works pretty well for or when sheeting the LE of a wing when called for, such as on a Jetstream A-1 or Sparrowhawk P-30. There is probably a better method, but I brush Titebond on the ribs, spar and LE, then place the sheeting in place then remove. After the glue is dry on both surfaces, I iron it on with a Moneycote iron. The heat seems to conform the sheeting to the curve reducing stresses. I just hate the little rubber balls that form when final sanding Angry. Is there another glue that would work like this and sand better or maybe a better way to sheet wings? I like to do them while still on the board, and with the thin undercambered ribs, I really don't want to pile up weights on top while glue dries.

Good idea on the UC ribs. I'll do that this time.

Thanks,

Rey
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« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2009, 03:17:45 PM »

I've had very good results with my stash of PICA Gluit. If you can find any buy it up - or better yet, let me know where it's hiding so I can buy it Wink. Sands very well, is ironable, and works well even when well thinned.

Another is the stuff Sig sells, IMHO good.

I'm not sure where the problem with Titebond II is. I've had NO problems with it "pilling" and is far from rubbery. Maybe not letting it dry long enough (MINIMUM 24 hours) in a relatively low humidity environment is the culprit. Another point to consider is the sandpaper and METHOD of sanding. Too fine a grit, you'll be wasting your time - too coarse and you'll probably cut thru the sheet. An open grit or the so-called "self-clearing" is what u want.

MANY people use too much pressure when sanding, especially when the paper starts to get a bit worn. All this does is compress the fibers and cause HEAT which WILL soften the glue rewarding the sander with rubbery "piling". New paper and a light hand is the formula for sanding glue joints, regardless of glue type, along with the correct sanding direction (diagonally across the joint).

Pete
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« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2009, 03:51:14 PM »

Maybe not letting it dry long enough (MINIMUM 24 hours) in a relatively low humidity environment is the culprit.

You may have nailed my problems...NO patience and high humidity in my garage workshop. I honestly didn't remember having the rubbery issue years ago with original Titebond, but then I was in an air-conditioned basement workshop. My daughter is going to build a Winterhawk Coupe (F1G) that has a sheeted LE so will try again with more time and bringing the wing in the house to dry more thoroughly before sanding.

Thanks,

Rey
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danberry
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« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2009, 03:57:26 PM »

Titebond 1 and 2 are very differents substances. 1 is a PVA yellow glue. Evaporation is a component of drying.
Titebond 2 is a waterproof adhesive that dries via a polymerization process. It is waterproof. It also has a shelf life of about 6 months that should not be exceeded.
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« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2009, 04:27:20 PM »

Titebond 1 and 2 are very different substances. 1 is a PVA yellow glue. Evaporation is a component of drying.
Titebond 2 is a waterproof adhesive that dries via a polymerization process. It is waterproof. It also has a shelf life of about 6 months that should not be exceeded.

Nit pik here. Titebond I (original) is actually an Aliphatic Resin. Titebond II and III are Polyvinyl Acetates.

Lyman

Edit: Changed colour behind PVA to make it easier to see.
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danberry
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« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2009, 07:04:03 PM »

I'm corrected. Embarrassed
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« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2009, 08:13:05 PM »

The 6 month shelf life for Titebond II is, IMHO, totally misleading - have NOT used Tb III. I, and a few others in my circle, have bottles that are WELL over three years old with NO degradation! We keep the stuff WELL sealed and in a relatively constant environment. Unopened bottles are kept in a cool (NOT cold) DARK place, and agitated regularly.

Methinks it's more of "This stuff goes a LONG way! Got to get the customers to buy more.." hype.

Pete
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« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2009, 09:02:25 PM »

Original Titebond...Aliphatic Resin. Never used it but it must be like Elmers.
Titebond II...Crosslinked polyvinyl acetate. Water resistant. I've had some experiences that bear that out.
Titebond III...Polymer. WaterPROOF. You can believe it.

Art.
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« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2010, 03:49:42 AM »

In my experience PVA based glues (e.g. Titebond II and III) do have a slight 'rubberiness' which makes them difficult to sand and also the structures made may be more prone to warping due to the flexibility of the glue. I now use Aliphatic resin for most joints, it dries hard and is very easy to sand. It's probably not as strong as PVA but for our purposes more than strong enough.

Steve
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« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2010, 09:15:47 AM »

Steve,

I' been using ELMER'S Carpenter's water resist. wood glue (for exterior use). I haven't encountered the "rubberyness" you mention, but It's been ages since I've even HAD Titebond (I do use it at my buddy's - HIS stash - when I'm working at his place). I thin my Elmer's (small quant.) by about 20% with demineralised water and when hard, sands very well. MIGHT have something to do with the fact that the stuff is about 8+ years old, but is STILL more than strong enough (use it also for RC planes up to GIANT scale >82" ws).

The 7" prop I laid up (fan style) for the embryo "Born Loser" (Tick Tock), is glued with the ELMER'S - sanded/feathered out with no problems.
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T Newton Morgan
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« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2011, 06:07:16 PM »

After reading this, I'm going back to Titebond!. Thank you for explaining the difference.
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Alan Cohen
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« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2011, 08:30:34 AM »

I use Titebond almost exclusively for construction. It sands well and IS NOT waterproof which I find is a big plus. It allows a joint to be loosened and repaired/relocated if necessary. The only downside is if your model lands in a lake and sits there for a hour or two, but I try to avoid that as much as possible. I certainly won't choose my glue based on submersion durability. I cover with gluestick and seal with nitrate dope. How's that for a blend of techniques!
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« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2011, 09:36:10 AM »

Alan,
Which Titebond? Do you thin it?

Dave Andreski
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« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2011, 12:44:33 PM »

Titebond 1. It's hard to say how much I thin. The main bottle I've been using is 8 years old and has been thinned and thinned again. I can hardly remember the original viscosity. But I know I don't thin 50-50. More like 3 parts glue, 2 parts water. I want it to be just thin enough to wick into the endgrain a bit, but not too runny that it won't hold a bead on the end of my applicator. I use A2Z's 20ga glue bottles.
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« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2011, 01:42:10 PM »

I have a couple of bottles of "Weldbond" from Canada, I think.

Can anyone comment on the pros-cons-makeup?
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« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2011, 01:51:17 PM »

I have used Weldbond in rocketry and it works great. I like it's quick grab and it can be thinned with water. I have not used it yet on a plane but will give it a try on my next one.
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« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2011, 02:17:41 PM »

Titebond 1. It's hard to say how much I thin. The main bottle I've been using is 8 years old and has been thinned and thinned again. I can hardly remember the original viscosity. But I know I don't thin 50-50. More like 3 parts glue, 2 parts water. I want it to be just thin enough to wick into the endgrain a bit, but not too runny that it won't hold a bead on the end of my applicator. I use A2Z's 20ga glue bottles.

Thanks Alan,
I was curious.

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« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2011, 06:09:36 PM »

I used Weldbond for several years after getting back into free flight airplanes. I diluted it approximately 25/75 water/glue and it worked fine. I would call it somewhat water resist; if you apply enough water to a joint it will eventually dissolve the glue. This results in one minor downside: I also use purple glue stick for attaching tissue which is water soluble as well. Removing damaged tissue using water sometimes resulted in loosened joints in the structure.
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RonT
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« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2011, 07:38:23 PM »

Don - How did the Weldbond sand?

Have you tried using alcohol to remove the glue stick attached tissue?
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« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2011, 08:10:39 PM »

Hi Ron,

Weldbond sanded ok, but maybe tended to 'ball' a little bit. This might have been caused by the glue not being 100% cured. In very general terms, I was probably sanding something like 24 hours after applying the glue. So far I've found diluted Duco to be the best for sanding and have used it exclusively for building my last 8 airplanes or so.

I have tried 'alcohol' to remove tissue, but found it very tedious. The purple glue stick I use is soluble in water. Once water is applied and the glue turns purple again, the tissue comes off very easily. The trick is to use a relatively small brush, and try to keep the water away from the structural joints (if Weldbond is used for the framing).

Don
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« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2011, 08:41:41 PM »

Thank you, Don.
Just the information I was looking for. I guess, like you, I'll stick with DUCO. (was that a pun?)
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« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2011, 01:18:04 AM »

Hi Ron,

One 'plus' for Weldbond that I forgot to mention is you can build wings flat, and when the glue is cured, mist/brush the wings with water to very slightly dissolve the joints then set any required wash in/out. No smell etc after the wing has dried/cured again (say 8 hours or so) and the wash in/out remains.

Don
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« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2011, 10:03:20 AM »

Thank you, Don.
I can see where that would be a "plus" in some cases. I'm not sure that it puts it ahead of DUCO for my building needs. I actually like to try and build in washout during construction when ever possible.

Speaking of DUCO, I just checked my stock and I'm about out! Time to check the Dollar store and stock up. I did find that I have 2 large, unopened tubes of Ambroid though.
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