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Author Topic: Consolidated PT-3 for Indoor Rubber  (Read 15895 times)
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OZPAF
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« Reply #400 on: March 17, 2019, 07:37:06 PM »

Whoops apologies to Graham Banham who I rechristened as a Richard.

John
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Graham Banham
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« Reply #401 on: March 18, 2019, 02:21:47 AM »

No problem John: I don’t mind if i’m confused with Richard Crossley: he builds better models than i do  Grin Grin!
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #402 on: April 02, 2019, 08:06:27 AM »

As Mike has just pointed out, the indoor nats are fast approaching, so I decided to tackle the traditional last minute job today: making a static propeller.
It’s cut from the metal of an old cymbal which our son eventually thrashed to death 12 years ago in his long and energetic pre-school drumming phase. Surprisingly, the drums themselves were made of sterner stuff and still survive intact. Anyway, the moral is never throw anything out.
The hub is a drinking straw. I might tweak the resulting prop a bit more as the twist and general evenness are not perfect, but it’s sort of done after a quick spray of Humbrol aluminium.
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Re: Consolidated PT-3 for Indoor Rubber
Re: Consolidated PT-3 for Indoor Rubber
Re: Consolidated PT-3 for Indoor Rubber
Re: Consolidated PT-3 for Indoor Rubber
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FreeFlightModeller
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« Reply #403 on: April 02, 2019, 09:31:32 AM »

That looks very effective Pete  Smiley
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #404 on: April 02, 2019, 02:18:11 PM »

Prop-er!  Grin
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Crabby
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« Reply #405 on: April 02, 2019, 02:50:21 PM »

Hey Dad! My drum kit's missing a cymbal have you seen it anywhere? I got a gig Friday night....
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« Reply #406 on: April 02, 2019, 03:28:51 PM »

That's a very convincing propeller, Pete!  Nice job...
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« Reply #407 on: April 02, 2019, 05:00:46 PM »

Looks great Pete... a cymbal of your skill....  Grin. ....oh stop groaning
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« Reply #408 on: April 02, 2019, 05:04:12 PM »

That deserves a 'Boom Tish' on the end, Chris .... but in this case just a 'Boom' perhaps?  Grin
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #409 on: April 02, 2019, 05:21:56 PM »

That deserves a 'Boom Tish' on the end, Chris .... but in this case just a 'Boom' perhaps?  Grin
I replaced the broken cymbal so a 'Tish' would still be technically possible although Tom doesn't drum anymore having switched to piano some years ago.

Here's a taste of how he destroyed the first cymbal though... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh0ufYQteKo (I think his tongue-out drumming face might be the same as my tongue-out model launching face!)
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« Reply #410 on: April 02, 2019, 05:24:40 PM »

I hope that he is progressing as well with the piano as he was with the drums!  Shocked
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billdennis747
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« Reply #411 on: April 02, 2019, 05:35:31 PM »

Here's a taste of how he destroyed the first cymbal though... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh0ufYQteKo (I think his tongue-out drumming face might be the same as my tongue-out model launching face!)
From Goldie and the Gingerbreads to Keith Moon in 40 seconds. No explosives?
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #412 on: April 02, 2019, 05:47:54 PM »

Keith Moon was about right in those days. He was utterly obsessed with drumming from 2 or 3 till he started school. When away from the drum kit he'd use anything for sticks and anything he could find for drums- flower pots, rocks, buckets, saucepans etc. It was like a compulsion and used to sometimes drive people mad. He stopped almost the day he started school. It was almost as though they'd broken his spirit or something! He's pretty good on the piano now though, and still has the sense of the rhythm, but not the need to hit things so much! I expect our neighbours are relieved anyway.
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« Reply #413 on: April 02, 2019, 05:50:34 PM »

I hope that he is progressing as well with the piano as he was with the drums!  Shocked

I hope not - there's a lot of piano wire in a piano Pete!
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #414 on: April 29, 2019, 04:22:34 AM »

So, on with the story....

As mentioned elsewhere, the nats trimming session resulted in the fuselage breaking again. It failed at all the longerons underneath the front cockpit. The problem was that the model was still straightening out as the turns came off. On previous flights it had already hit the wall in fact, but I got away with a bent prop shaft and a merely cracked stringer and top fus. longeron, and on another occasion it was ably caught by Mr Crossley as it homed in on the pit area. At his suggestion I added more right thrust, and more left rudder to counteract it. However, this stopped it turning so much on take-off and it was that wall strike (and floor strike) that finally did for it. Richard's thrust/rudder advice was sound I'm sure, and the fault was mine as my rudder hinges are not stiff enough and I suspect the rudder straightened in the prop wash.

I can certainly sort out the rudder issue, but all of the above is somewhat masking the main problem, which is that I have built an indoor model that cannot withstand fairly low speed head on bumps into walls. Therefore I am choosing NOT to see the fuslage breaking as crash damage at all, but rather as vital 'design data' gathered in its ongoing testing phase. The model is not broken, it is merely unfinished, and a design flaw has been identified before I proceed to completion. An advantage of testing at the indoor nats is that there is plenty of expert help on hand. The consensus seems to be that I need to sheet the forward part of the fuselage, right back to the rear of the rear cockpit. As has already been pointed out, the big open cockpits mean the forward fuselage is inherently weak, and a three sided tissue covered box of 1/16 sq strip will simply not do for a model like this.
So, at Graham's suggestion, the plan now is to temporarily remove the wings and then take away all the broken fuselage wood, rather as I did for my Fairchild repair. I'll build a 3 sided sheeted box for the fuslelage where it's under the cockpits, joining the nose and tail sections. I'll put the two stringers onto the sheet sides, cover the new section and Bob, hopefully, will then be my uncle. It will be a better model for it, I'll be ready for Nijmegen and Saturday's mishap will all have been a blessing in disgiuse.

Here's a post-damage pic of the model soaking up the Nats atmosphere at Walsall yesterday (pinched from the BMFA facebook page; so thank you whoever took it!)
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Re: Consolidated PT-3 for Indoor Rubber
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #415 on: April 29, 2019, 05:23:19 AM »


...Therefore I am choosing NOT to see the fuslage breaking as crash damage at all, but rather as vital 'design data' gathered in its ongoing testing phase. The model is not broken, it is merely unfinished, and a design flaw has been identified before I proceed to completion. An advantage of testing at the indoor nats is that there is plenty of expert help on hand.


I couldn't agree more - with all your observations!
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #416 on: April 29, 2019, 07:06:44 AM »

Thanks Jon!
Wings are off and broken wood removed. All in all it’s not too bad and I’m confident of a fairly clean rebuild. It’ll have to wait a bit now though as I need to finish the Comte before the FF nats.
If you look closely at these pics you can just about see the missing bit.




(That’s right- one of the engine cylinders has come off.)
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #417 on: April 29, 2019, 08:32:50 AM »

I'm glad you've got a strategy for developing this. Great model.
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Graham Banham
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« Reply #418 on: April 29, 2019, 06:20:38 PM »

Nice one Pete: looks like a fairly straightforward new section to be slotted in, and it appears from the photos to be less awkward than your highly successful Fairchild cut and shut as it’s a constant cross-section. Be good to see it go in the wide(er) open spaces of the Jan Massinkhal in November.

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danmellor
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« Reply #419 on: May 20, 2019, 08:20:07 PM »

That was a massive shame, Pete! A well planned/documented/built model that should have had it's chance.

Hope you get it back together.

Dan.
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #420 on: May 28, 2019, 09:34:52 AM »

Thanks Dan. The plan is to try it at Nijmegen and then enter it again at the nats next year too.

So... it’s time to repair it. I feel like I’ve done nothing but repairs lately and really want to build something new. It must be how those down on their luck aircraft manufacturers felt when they had to branch out into making prefab housing or railway carriages just to make ends meet.

I decided it was just too much hassle to remove the undercarriage which means I can’t really jig up the fuselage flat on a board. Instead, this will be a ‘midair’ reconstruction, but that’s how I did the Fairchild and that turned out ok.

Using the drawing, I made a card template for the new side pieces and, when satisfied, cut them from 1/32 balsa. These are now glued in position and so the fuselage is once more back in one piece. Well, it’s a start.
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Re: Consolidated PT-3 for Indoor Rubber
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billdennis747
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« Reply #421 on: May 28, 2019, 10:16:51 AM »

Another fine product from Arthur Daley Motors. But it looks like the '4' won't make it!
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #422 on: May 30, 2019, 03:39:21 PM »

Another fine product from Arthur Daley Motors. But it looks like the '4' won't make it!
Looking slightly less Arthur Daleyish now that the framing and side stringers are on. I think the 4 will make it! The sheet side pieces weigh about 1g each, so hopefully the weight penalty for this repair won’t be too great. I was intending to sheet the cockpit floor area too, but no longer think there’s any need as the forward fuslage is much stronger already.
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Re: Consolidated PT-3 for Indoor Rubber
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« Reply #423 on: May 30, 2019, 03:49:38 PM »

Aha! A consolidated fuselage.  Sorry.  I'll get my coat. Smiley

Lovely bit of welding there guvnor.
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #424 on: May 30, 2019, 03:57:08 PM »

Sorted! I knew you would have that fixed - well done!
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