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Author Topic: PZL Wilga for .5cc diesel  (Read 8335 times)
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Squirrelnet
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« on: September 15, 2018, 01:58:25 PM »

I've spent some time trying work out what to build as a windy weather competition model. I toyed with a KK Piper Super Cruiser and the Ron Moulton Auster AOP9, which I built in my youth but in the end I quite fancy having a go at one of these.

The aim is a flying only model which can be used in Aeromodeller design comps too

Its from the APS plan by P Hayward and at 36" span looks ideal for a Redfin 030 TBR I have needing a home. The bearer position needs some altering so I can fit an ali plate and the banded on tail is probably not necessary but my tactic is it's the most 'Tomboy' like scale design I can find and my Tomboy has flown in 30mph wind on Salisbury Plain... mostly downwind obviously

Anyone have any experience of the design ? or cautionary tales.
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PZL Wilga for .5cc diesel
PZL Wilga for .5cc diesel
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DHnut
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« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2018, 03:30:44 PM »

Chris,
         Ian Lever built one of these and won the British Nats one windy year. I am sure he would be able to give you some pointers on the build. I think it has a quirky charm.
Ricky 
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Monz
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« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2018, 03:32:47 PM »

I began building one from this plan years ago but discovered that there were quite a few inaccuracies. Could have been they crept into the digital version I'd downloaded, so just make sure you check all dimensions before cutting. I ended up using a great three view I found instead. Mine was for 5 channel indoor electric RC. There's a build thread on here somewhere. I did use the Hayward plan's decalage, which I found to be excessive, so I'd suggest building in an adjustable stab.

PM me your email and I'll send the three view I have.

You could also modify it to the Draco, a Wilga with a PT6 on the front.... https://youtu.be/PqhI4MeCn1c?t=1m12s Wink
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Squirrelnet
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« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2018, 03:53:01 PM »

Thanks both.

I'll have a look for the thread. Draco Wilga looks amazing but the original version with radial engine allows the Redfin to hide in an upright position which makes life much easier.

Monz thanks PM sent
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Squirrelnet
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« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2018, 01:26:13 PM »

Looking back at the thread of Monique's example, it looks fantastic, mine will be very much a flying only example

It looks like a go-er though as a project. I now have a decent 3 view thanks to Monique and I have modified the plan to fit a Redfin TBR in the upright position. I dropped the engine bearers to allow for an ali plate to mount the engine and corrected the obvious errors in the cowling when compared to the 3 view.

I also found a few pics of a nice example from Romania in yellow and blue and registered YR-VIS so I'll do it as this one I think... I like yellow aeroplanes :-) and the scheme is fairly straight forward.
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Re: PZL Wilga for .5cc diesel
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faif2d
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« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2018, 05:43:28 PM »

I know one of the test pilots for the F-16.  Back when they were doing the first tests out at Edwards probably in the early 1970's? someone had a Wilga there.  He said everyone had to take it around the pattern just so they could add it to the log book. It was, and still is, quite an exotic looking plane.
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PaulM
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« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2018, 11:52:50 AM »

 I have one of those redfin .030 engines , they are really unfussy , but ive found that they like to have intake primes , and the Wilgas cowl looks like it hides the intake away ..still should be ok with a prime through the port Smiley
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Squirrelnet
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« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2018, 03:24:59 PM »

Thanks Paul, good point. The plan is to modify the cowl so the top part is removable so I can get access to the tank and intake. I have found them to excellent little engines too

Chris
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 04:19:15 PM by Squirrelnet » Logged
ffkiwi
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« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2018, 04:48:41 PM »

Thanks Paul, good point. The plan is to modify the cowl so the top part is removable so I can get access to the tank and intake. I have found them to excellent little engines too

Chris

Those high strength little magnets are your friend in this situation-and with the range available now in disc, cube, cylindrical  shapes you are spoiled for choice when it comes to things like strut, cowl, and flying surface discreet retention options. The more I use them the more uses I am finding for them-even to the point of using them in my model boxes-where a couple glued to the interior frame hold things like removable undercarriage legs or skids safely-a better option than having such items rattling around loose-where they can punch holes in tissue etc...

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'
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billdennis747
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« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2018, 05:00:24 PM »

Yes they are very useful - I remember the days of sewing press studs to plywood. However the first time I used them I accidentally glued the second pair the wrong way round and the cowling hovered 2" above the model.
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Squirrelnet
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« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2018, 05:13:17 PM »

Thanks Chris. I'm a big fan of magnets too. The Tomtit I'm building in another thread has the top cowl held on with them, I was thinking of a similar arrangement with this one


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I accidentally glued the second pair the wrong way round and the cowling hovered 2" above the model.

I'm guilty of that one too...digging them out once the epoxy had dried was not fun. I now put a black mark on the outer edge of each pair, just don't mix the pairs up  Undecided

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Squirrelnet
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« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2018, 01:03:08 PM »

The weather has scuppered my plans to go to the Festival of Flight today at Old Warden with heavy rain and wind, though as I type this it's looking rather nice outside with clear skies and light winds  Angry

 Anyway I thought I would use the time in a constructive way so I have made a start on the Wilga. The basic frame is from laminated 3/32" balsa and 1mm ply and looks to be a sturdy structure. Wide spacing of the engine bearers will allow the Redfin engine to be mounted on an 1/8" aluminium plate so I can adjust the thrust line without resorting to drilling engine mounting holes bigger

One thing I will change is the lifting section tailplane on P Haywards plan.  This may explain Monz's comment about the plan having too much declage, more would be needed to counter the lifting effect of the tail if it is replaced with symmetrical section one. I notice from the photos of the original it has a symmetrical section tail.

I'll check the incidences on the plan but I'll aim for 3 deg on the wing with the tail at zero and go from there. I guess I should check the 3 view drawings I have too to see what the original was set at
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Re: PZL Wilga for .5cc diesel
Re: PZL Wilga for .5cc diesel
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Squirrelnet
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« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2018, 01:20:21 PM »

Much of the time in the workshop this afternoon was spent repairing my DH60 Moth for next weeks Selby Trophy but I managed a bit more on the PZL as well, so I now have a rear to the fuselage.

Sheeting the fuselage in 1/16th balsa looks to be the main challenge of the project. I'm not a fan of ammonia so it will be out with the wallpaper stripper tomorrow to steam some sections into shape. I'm just wondering wether to add some 3mm x .5 mm carbon strip to the tail boom to give some added strength... Yep think I'll do that . The original plan has 3/16" dowel for the rear cockpit bracing but I'm going to use 1/8" carbon rod anyway so some carbon strip in the rear fuselage can be bonded to that too make it bit more bounceable. It is intended to be a rough weather model Wink

 

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Squirrelnet
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« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2018, 02:57:22 PM »

I've added some carbon strip and some 1/8" carbon rod for the rear cockpit struts. It feels a lot stronger as a super structure now

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Squirrelnet
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« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2018, 01:03:27 PM »

I've not managed much on this one recently but it does now have legs at least  Wink

The struts as indicated on the plan aren't completely accurate to the 3 view and photos but as this is a flying only model I went with the plan rather than having to rethink the layout. 

As the Selby Trophy was cancelled I spent most of the afternoon tidying the workshop and putting models away for the winter. It's nice to have some space again, though the models have to share with more oily inhabitants  Undecided

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Squirrelnet
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« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2018, 01:42:32 PM »

I finished off the basic under carriage structure this afternoon. Making sure it was all square looked tricky until I hit on the idea of aligning the axles with a couple of steel rules before soldering. It seems to have worked as early taxi tests ( chucking it across the workshop floor ) reveal it goes in straight line at least.

The fuselage is sheeted in 1/16" balsa , I'm not a fan of ammonia so it was out with the wallpaper stripper to create a small steam box using the large wallpaper attachment against a flat surface. A couple of minutes  on both sides and the hot soggy balsa easily moulds to the shape needed. I clamped up one side and left it to dry. The second side was glued on as it was clamped to shape, avoiding glue around the joins top and bottom. When thats dry I'll trim it and then fit the other side.

 
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Re: PZL Wilga for .5cc diesel
Re: PZL Wilga for .5cc diesel
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billdennis747
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« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2018, 02:31:13 PM »

I don't think ammonia works on balsa like it does on basswood. Beware soaked balsa - it can shrink when drying (how do I know?)
Are you going with scale dihedral or that on the plan?
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Squirrelnet
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« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2018, 02:46:43 PM »

Thanks Bill :-) both sides now drying before fitting

Non scale dihedral on this one, I'm after a reliable flyer so the more like a sport model I can make it the better.
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« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2018, 08:24:14 PM »

That shot down your workshop in #14 looks appealing SN. Interesting subject.

John
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Squirrelnet
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« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2018, 03:07:05 PM »

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That shot down your workshop in #14 looks appealing SN

..Keeps me out of trouble  Wink.... or should that read - it means I'm always in trouble  Undecided


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3view
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« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2018, 01:46:41 PM »

You could also modify it to the Draco, a Wilga with a PT6 on the front.... https://youtu.be/PqhI4MeCn1c?t=1m12s Wink

Clicked on the above link and then spent the rest of the evening watching all 20 videos of the Wilga to Draco saga. Mike Patey is has an infectious enthusiasm.  Also I was completely ignorant if the flying cowboys/bush pilot scene. Looks fun landing in impossible places!

Squirrelnet, keep up the good work on your Wilga.

Steve
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billdennis747
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« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2018, 02:10:22 PM »


Clicked on the above link and then spent the rest of the evening watching all 20 videos of the Wilga to Draco saga.
Me too. 'The Wilga has very little dihedral'!
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Glenn (gravitywell) Reach
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« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2018, 04:04:42 PM »

Hi there.  I have just watched some really cool video's on youtube about this aircraft.  Do a search for "wilga draco"  Turbo prop variant.  Longer nose is usually a good thing for us!
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Squirrelnet
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« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2018, 01:35:21 PM »

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'The Wilga has very little dihedral'!

 There seems to be quite a bit of variation in dihedral, the Drago has non but the earlier ones had some at least. The Romanian Aero Club seem to have 3 of them all with slightly different angles, mine will be the one with the most dihedral ... and some !

Drago version looks great but I'm after a model that I can use a Redfin 030 TBR I have in an upright position so despite the shorter nose the radial version fits the bill. The videos are mesmerising, aircraft can't take off and land like that can they ?  

Work is progressing, slowly. I have found as Monz did before me that the Hayward plan has a few inaccuracies to the 3 view and photos, and is distinctly vague in the area around the cowling to fuselage transition.

 One thing I will correct is the missing rear part of the canopy, there is a whole top section not on the model. So with that I mind I have removed the 1/2" x 1/8" balsa strip which joins the top of the cockpit and replaced it with 2 3mm sections of carbon rod so that part of the structure is not visible through the new top bit canopy.  (pic 1)

I also noticed what looks like a weakness in the design and its back to that fuselage to cowling transition. The gap between the two is bridged by the 3/32"/1mm ply crutch former, front cockpit bracing ( doweling on the plan ) and the 1/16" balsa  skin only. I have added some 1/8" balsa sheet infill to help spread any hard landing stresses from the engine bearers more evenly back into the frame rather than snapping the nose off !!! (pic 2)

The Engine bay has also been modified to fit the side port rear intake of the Redfin with a sealed box section created behind the original firewall to give room for the venturi.. and a pinky to prime the engine  Wink  Engine is the 030 (0.5cc) TBR. Alex Phinn supplied this one with a black head and spinner for me ( I had ideas of a WW1 Rumpler C1 or similar but that will have to wait for another year ). (pic 3)

Once the full sheeting is on the fuselage it'll be difficult to get to the inside to paint so I gave the the bottom half a coat of matt black . I won't add much interior detail , though it will need a pilot, doesn't any aircraft ? and it will probably get a printed dashboard ( pic 4)

The technique of steaming the balsa with a wall paper stripper ( couple of mins both sides ) seems to have worked ok on the rear and lower fuselage sections so the top was done the same way. Its bound in place with masking tape and clamped with a batten on the flat bits, rubber bands tend to leave a mark in the softened wood. Its not glued at the moment, ( Thanks Bill - banana avoided  Grin)  just using the fuselage as a mould to form the panels. Once its dry I'll trim it to shape and glue it on. ( Pic 5)
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: PZL Wilga for .5cc diesel
Re: PZL Wilga for .5cc diesel
Re: PZL Wilga for .5cc diesel
Re: PZL Wilga for .5cc diesel
Re: PZL Wilga for .5cc diesel
« Last Edit: November 04, 2018, 02:02:09 PM by Squirrelnet » Logged
OZPAF
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« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2018, 07:41:11 PM »

Looking very neat. It is a bit of a structural challenge! I like your solution of the carbon rods and the sheet infill behind the firewall SN.

John
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