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Author Topic: New FAA rules coming!!! Contact your congressmen!  (Read 776 times)
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VictorY
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« on: September 25, 2018, 11:20:04 PM »

I haven't been able to determine whether or not they will be coming after our high flying freeflight models yet but maybe you all should follow the AMA's recommendations and contact your congressmen and congresswomen ASAP just to be safe. The AMA has set up a page for you to do so. New rules will be a hard ceiling of 400 ft for all model aircraft with possible need for onboard locator beacons, licensing etc. There is a storm coming, it's brown, and it smells like the south end of a north bound mammal. Please take a few minutes to fill in your name and hit enter. If they are successful at destroying rc soaring, it won't be long before they come after high performance free flight planes that don't even have radios to steer them away from approaching full scale traffic. And they will find out about you.

https://amablog.modelaircraft.org/amagov/2018/09/23/take-action-now-tell-congress-to-vote-no-on-faa-reauthorization/


Thank you
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flydean1
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« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2018, 07:15:14 AM »

Right

The FAA doesn't know we exist.  The AMA has kept quiet about us for good reason.  You can imagine some FAA gnome comfortable in his/her cubicle and realizing "WHAT!!  THEY CAN'T CONTROL THESE THINGS??? THEY JUST LET THEM GO???.

Please contact your elected representatives, not only through the web site, but the really best is to write a short note preferably by hand.  I have known several politicians at the state and federal (never capitalize) level and they make sure their staff forwards all personally written letters to them.
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Crabby
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« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2018, 07:57:06 AM »

As soon as the drone thing took off I have been thinking about this. Some smart ass is gonna take the shot-gun approach. Any flying object will be seen as a security threat. I don't know if its such a great idea to raise any more attention to us free-flighters. I tried to fly a pistachio in the community gym the other day and it caused a big bureaucratic panic in the building.
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Starduster
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« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2018, 08:29:04 AM »

I'll make you guys a deal:

The day a FAA person shows up at your favorite Free Flight field (Wawayanda, Lost Hills, Palm Bay, Muncie etc.) and starts asking for ID's, send me a letter with proof, and I'll personally send you $50.00 (Note: this offer not valid for you yahoos who try to fly in a football field inside the 5 mile radius of an active airport)

Tempest in a teacup
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flydean1
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« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2018, 09:17:13 AM »

Sorry, I've seen this happen in other areas.  This is primarily a power grab so the FAA can justify more staff and more money.  BTW, Muncie is within a mile of a civil airport with a paved runway (Reese) and just outside the controlled airspace of Muncie/Delaware County.
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VictorY
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« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2018, 09:21:50 AM »

I'll make you guys a deal:

The day a FAA person shows up at your favorite Free Flight field (Wawayanda, Lost Hills, Palm Bay, Muncie etc.) and starts asking for ID's, send me a letter with proof, and I'll personally send you $50.00 (Note: this offer not valid for you yahoos who try to fly in a football field inside the 5 mile radius of an active airport)

Tempest in a teacup

If you haven't been following, you don't know how bad the FAA goons want full control of the national airspace again. They shut out the AMA during this last round of negotiations. You can bet that they will be coming for the contest scene eventually. If you don't believe there is any threat at all, then please, just take the time to help out a fellow builder/flyer/hobbyist and fill out the electronic form and hit enter. It takes a couple of minutes of your time and, at the very least, will help the AMA. It's the sanctioned events that will suffer. Outlaw flying will continue unless fines become high enough that it's not worth the small risk of being busted.

Thanks
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VictorY
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« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2018, 09:53:41 AM »

Just spent 5 min on the phone with the AMA government relations contact and she said freeflight is definitely on the list of activities under threat. Large scale models, turbines, precision aerobatics like pattern and IMAC, all catagories of soaring including rc and freeflight, they are all under threat of becoming illegal. There was some good news as far as what the AMA expects for us if the bill does pass as is, but those are empty promises from people who say they are willing to share power after it is given to them. I'd play it safe and just send a letter or fill out the electronic form in the link above. Wink

The funny thing is, as the bill is written, it's ONLY the rural areas that are under the strict 400 ceiling, all classes of airspace except for "G" will be under control of the local administrator/ATC who can give permission to bust the ceiling. Those people are very confused. Best to just spread the word and try to get enough no votes.
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Indoorflyer
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« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2018, 10:23:33 AM »

You really think a bunch of guys flying toy airplanes will have more clout than the airline industry? It's all about their lobbyists and  the money they spend on the politicians...

The airlines want complete control of airspace; haven't you been following the "privatization" efforts?

The FAA is being told to create "industry-friendly" rules...
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VictorY
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« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2018, 10:40:35 AM »

It's more about preparing the airspace below full scale air traffic for the explosion of the drone economy. Our lobbyists at the AMA have been able to fight it off round after round, look at the history of their efforts over the last half decade or more. So far so good. The least we can do is what the AMA asks of us. If you are a member of the AMA, and you care about it's future, take few minutes. If not, don't. Thanks for your participation. LOL
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Bargle
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« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2018, 08:03:12 AM »

I did it. Let's hope it helps.
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kittyfritters
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« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2018, 12:35:29 AM »

I've read Section 349 of HR 302.  It makes absolutely no distinction between drones and any model aircraft.  They are all 'Unmanned Aircraft Systems".  There are some specifically bothersome paragaphs.

‘‘6) In Class G airspace, the aircraft is flown from the surface to not more than 400 feet above ground level and complies with all airspace restrictions and prohibitions

( My note: Class G airspace is uncontrolled airspace from sea level to 14100 feet above sea level. In preceding sections its defined as limited to 1500 feet AGL even for commercial UAS operations.  In controlled airspace the local airport controller can make the altitude limit for models even lower.)

‘‘7) The operator has passed an aeronautical knowledge and safety test described in subsection (g) and maintains proof of test passage to be made available to the Administrator or law enforcement upon request.

‘‘8) The aircraft is registered and marked in accordance with chapter 441 of this title and proof of registration is made available to the Administrator or a designee of the Administrator or law enforcement upon request.

Yes, these paragraphs ARE in the section entitled "Exception for limited recreational operations of unmanned aircraft.

However, the most disturbing paragraph is this:

‘‘(f) EXCEPTIONS.—Nothing in this section prohibits the Administrator from promulgating rules generally applicable to unmanned aircraft, including those unmanned aircraft eligible for the exception set forth in this section, relating to
                           (1) updates to the operational parameters for unmanned aircraft in subsection (a);
                           (2) the registration and marking of unmanned aircraft;
                           (3) the standards for remotely identifying owners and operators of unmanned aircraft systems and associated unmanned aircraft; and
                           (4) other standards consistent with maintaining the safety and security of the National Airspace.

This is a "take back clause".  In other words no matter what the rules set forth in the bill, the FAA Administrator can make any rules he or she may want including outlawing model aircraft entirely without going to Congress for permission.

I complained about this to my representatives (The congressional email system is deliberately set up to make it virtually impossible to email all members of congress.  They don't want to hear from anyone but their own constituents.) and all I got back was a canned reply the key point of which is:

"One effect of Section 336 is to draw a bright line between commercial and recreational operations.  While there are important differences between these types of operation, there are also circumstances where generally applicable rules are appropriate.  In my view, it is important to ensure that FAA will have the authority it needs to maintain the safety of the national airspace, including, for example, through generally applicable registration requirements and remote identification standards.  At the same time, I recognize  the  interest  of some to continue safely operating model aircraft as as a hobby without interruption."  

That's what you get back from all of them so you know how the vote is going to go.

KF
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flydean1
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« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2018, 11:20:23 AM »

I'll make you guys a deal:

The day a FAA person shows up at your favorite Free Flight field (Wawayanda, Lost Hills, Palm Bay, Muncie etc.) and starts asking for ID's, send me a letter with proof, and I'll personally send you $50.00 (Note: this offer not valid for you yahoos who try to fly in a football field inside the 5 mile radius of an active airport)

Tempest in a teacup

This has already happened.  A Control-line contest was shut down during campaigning for the 2012 election because the site was within 30 nautical miles of where the President was speaking.  It was somewhere in the Northeast.  The Secret Service didn't care that the planes were securely tethered and could fly no higher than about 75 feet.  It was instantly shut down and participants were not permitted to fly.

This is what happens when bureaucrats get the regulatory bit in their teeth.

Unfortunately 99% of the politicians on either side do not care about us.  We have too few votes.
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Starduster
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« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2018, 01:14:20 PM »




This has already happened.  A Control-line contest was shut down during campaigning for the 2012 election because the site was within 30 nautical miles of where the President was speaking.  It was somewhere in the Northeast.  The Secret Service didn't care that the planes were securely tethered and could fly no higher than about 75 feet.  It was instantly shut down and participants were not permitted to fly.

This is what happens when bureaucrats get the regulatory bit in their teeth.

Unfortunately 99% of the politicians on either side do not care about us.  We have too few votes.

I have not heard that story, I'd like to see some documentation...

And, besides, that's the Secret Service, not the FAA.

And, if you are specifically talking about Free Flighters, the percentage would probably be closer to 99.99999%

I just did my Fight Instructor Re-validation course, and there was a section on "UAS" (Unmanned Aircraft Systems, and though it talked about R/C airplanes quite a bit, there was no mention of FF or CL.

We are such a tiny, tiny percentage of the overall hobby...
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flydean1
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« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2018, 04:37:20 PM »

It was in a news letter. 

In case you're comparing.

I'm a CFI/CFII/MEI/ATP/AGI/IGI/UAS

Spent so far nearly 50 years in aviation.

Yes, that last on is a "drone" rating.
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Starduster
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« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2018, 11:57:50 AM »


In case you're comparing.


I wasn't, but OK, yours is bigger than mine, good for you.

I was making the point that we a just a tiny drop in a big bucket. I'd like you to find me one FAA or other Government official (that is not involved with the hobby, that is) that, if asked, would even know what Free Flight is. Heck, 99% of R/C'ers I've talked to don't know what it is.
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