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Author Topic: New TSA Flight Endurance design (2019-2020 rules)  (Read 1237 times)
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Maxout
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« on: October 11, 2018, 01:28:55 PM »

Just finished up development of this critter. Build videos coming soon. It flies nicely, just not as slow and gentle as the old ones that allowed nice big wings. Still, plenty fun.

http://jhaerospace.com/product/senior-flyer-rog/
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New TSA Flight Endurance design (2019-2020 rules)
New TSA Flight Endurance design (2019-2020 rules)
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Maxout
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« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2018, 01:47:52 PM »

Got some flying in...here's a video (trimming instructional forthcoming):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_ZqAPW6jUw
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jcobbs
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« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2019, 03:25:44 PM »

Are you going to be at the TSA nationals this week.

Jim
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aardvark_bill
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« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2019, 06:21:19 PM »

I saw a couple of these at the TSA nats including one biplane from Crawford, Georgia that flew pretty well.  Too bad though that we all brought airplanes to an essay writing contest...
Congrats to jcobbs kid on the come-from-behind 3rd place trophy - well done.  1st was won by the #6 flight times.  Top flyer only managed 4th and the #3 times didn't make top 10.
We're going to spend most of our time next year working on documentation because losing to planes that you outflew by 90 seconds is maddening, but that's the rules. Maybe next year...
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jcobbs
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« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2019, 08:53:45 AM »

Aardvark_bill

Congrats to you and your students on some excellent flying.  I saw some good flying from VA GA TX MS and CO. I’m probably missing a few also. TSA sometimes wants to make the rules to fit them rather than fit the competition.  I get frustrated sometimes too.  Earlier in the early 2000’s I had a student for three years that always came in behind the other student I also had entered.  He always had a better flying plane just didn’t quite get as good on the documentation.

It’s always fun to watch.  We get to hear polite applause and sighs of disappointment.  Even though we are competitors we tend to compete with each other congenially rather than compete against each other. 
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flydean1
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« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2019, 09:03:49 AM »

It's those silly academia-induced rules that make me stay uninvolved.
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jcobbs
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« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2019, 10:16:19 AM »

I just hope with all the students I work with that at least one will eventually come join the hobby.
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SyLa-20871
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« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2019, 11:13:24 AM »

Billy, Jim,

My son and I enjoyed the pleasure of meeting you and chatting with you.  The endurance flights were impressive to see, especially the biplanes.  My son placed third in MS Flight with the TSA Shooter by Maxout, and was pleased as punch to walk off with the trophy.  Our goal was to get on the stage.  As for my sons' interest in this hobby, he has been hooked since 5th grade and looks forward to more building and flying.  Is there a way to get the scoring feedback for the documentation?  This was his first year and we made a best guess at what was required for the documentation.  I am sure there is room for improvement.

Best,
Laurent
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jcobbs
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« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2019, 12:17:46 PM »

SyLa

Nice meeting you and your son. I’m always glad to see students interested in Flight.

There is supposed to be feedback posted on the website later.  I believe chapter advisor credentials may be required to view.  It will take them a few weeks to get it uploaded.  Check with his advisor. 

Jim

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aardvark_bill
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« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2019, 04:03:26 PM »

SyLa,
It was nice to meet you too.  Jim is correct about the feedback; his advisor will be able to see the actual score sheets in a few weeks.

Jim - please don't take my grumbling about the documentation scoring as anything more than frustration with myself for not emphasizing it enough with my kids; I really let them down in that regard. As you said, we have a very congenial rivalry and I am truly happy for your student and the other students that got trophies - they definitely knew how to fly their planes well and put the effort and time into the stuff that earned them the points to win.  We'll be back next year and give it another go...with better notebooks...we hope. Smiley
I remind myself frequently that this is a technology contest that involves model airplanes and not a model airplane contest.  But that won't stop me from giving feedback to the organization to try to keep the emphasis on the flying.

Flydean - let the advisor handle the paperwork and just teach some kids build and fly.  The TSA plane is a great vehicle - no pun intended - to get students involved in the amazing facet of model aviation that is indoor. 
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Maxout
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« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2019, 01:35:51 PM »

I need to get video up from Tyler's 5th place flight at the Nats, but in the meantime, here's a 3 minute flight from mine. Tyler and Ethan were both doing 2:50-3:00 in practice but had some problems in Baltimore. The plane we are flying is a fully laser cut design with interlocking spars and such that seems to work really well. They build very fast.
https://youtu.be/tKl3x_HE2BU
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Little-Acorn
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« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2020, 03:41:58 PM »

What ARE the rules for TSA airplanes? Limitations on wings, stable, motors, props, weight etc.? I did some internet searching, but not quite sure what title to search for, came up empty so far.
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jcobbs
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« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2020, 07:20:44 PM »

There will revised rules for 2021-22.  New rule cycle every two years.   I have no idea what the rule revisions might be.  We don’t have any idea yet how our district, state, or national competitions will be conducted. 
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Little-Acorn
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« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2020, 06:01:59 PM »

What were they for past year(s)? Anybody have a link to last year's (or year before's) TSA rules?
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ceandra
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« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2020, 01:37:51 PM »

With an all virtual competition in SO this year in NM, we decided to look at TSA. Unfortunately, TSA does not allow home-school-centered teams. Home schoolers can participate by joining an established chapter at a state-recognized school district school. Not sure if that even allows private schools. However, participation is "if permitted by the school administration". In NM, that is nearly impossible, based on past experiences with SO.

There is only one chapter in the entirety of Albuquerque.

At least SO Nationals recognize home school teams.

Oh well, I guess we wait for next year. We will be focusing on AMA builds and competition this year.

Chuck
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jcobbs
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« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2020, 02:07:08 PM »

I am pretty sure TSA allows public and private school chapters.   TSA is also approved by this organization if this helps.  https://tsaweb.org/images/default-source/default-album/nassp-2020-2021.jpg?sfvrsn=c5629aca_2

There is no virtual competition for flight or flight endurance this year.  Flight and flight endurance are available if you are in regular school.   They are planning on national conference in Orlando next year. 
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aardvark_bill
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« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2020, 05:13:49 PM »

Jim, I believe you are correct regarding membership.  We are trying to figure out a way to have practices and contests in Virginia with the Covid restrictions, but nothing definite yet. 
Chuck - give the TSA office a call -Phone: 703-860-9000 Toll Free: 888-860-9010 -or email Suzy Orr at [email protected] to ask about homeschool students.
Only change to the rules this cycle was the removal of "commercially available plastic" from the propeller specs. 
General gist - 45 x 9 cm wing projected (biplanes allowed), 140 - 170 mm prop, 1.5 gram max motor, 7.0 to 21.0 gram model weight.  No limit on stab, but general interpretation is that it can't be larger than 45x9.  Planes ROG and must have 2 wheels 15mm or bigger and they must roll under the weight of the plane.
10 second bonus for landing on the wheels and coming to rest on the wheels.
Best two-flight total gets 60 points, second gets 55; I forget the rest, but it generally steps down like that.
Documentation counts the same as the flights, so have the kids spend time on their portfolios!


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jcobbs
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« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2020, 06:05:52 PM »

Rubber: 1.5gm including o-ring(s).

Billy
I don’t even know yet if I can meet with kids after school. 
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aardvark_bill
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« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2020, 09:54:42 AM »

We can't do anything face-to face yet either, but I think small groups will be allowed to meet by October.
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ceandra
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« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2020, 08:39:39 PM »

Chuck - give the TSA office a call -Phone: 703-860-9000 Toll Free: 888-860-9010 -or email Suzy Orr at [email protected] to ask about homeschool students.


My info on home school participation came from the tsa national office. Unfortunately, home schoolers can only participate by joining a chapter at a "real" school. Our state activities board requires that they only participate through the high school they would have been assigned to if they attended public school. Since only one in Albuquerque even had a team/chapter, that becomes a non starter with my students, as they do not live in the area of that school.

Sorry I did not get back earlier, I kinda walked away when I got the official position.

Chuck
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