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Jack Plane
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« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2018, 02:49:11 AM »

Cheers for the extra advice guys.

The Badger 350 came with a set of fine, medium and broad heads, so the scope for the equipment to exceed my abilities is threefold!

Russ, I think there might be something wrong with your equipment or your technique:  the earth colours on your Reg seem to have sprayed on very blurry...   Grin
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FreeFlightModeller
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« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2018, 04:53:22 AM »

Bill Brown used to call it 'mouldy'  Roll Eyes
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fred
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« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2018, 12:57:15 PM »

Re sealed and open motors in fans:
these are invariably INDUCTION motors as in seriously unlikely to ignite anything.
Having No brushes / no sparks... just AC cycling as magnetic motivation.
Seriously thinkm??.. that our 'safety' rules would allow for sale a potentially dangerous Fan motor in Either our Bathrooms Or Kitchens ??   
Think Hair spray isn't  instantly Volatile??
Beyond that: 30$ can buy a Bathroom fan featuring a Sealed (in a can case) motor Or for a few $ less.. an open frame motor.
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2018, 02:56:08 PM »

Good point Fred.

I've done my risk assessment (not mandatory as I don't employ anyone) and consider the likelihood pretty low and the consequences non-fatal.

... which is more than could be said for that bloke who launched his hang-glider off a cliff without having first clipped on!
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Squirrelnet
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« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2018, 04:20:20 PM »

I'm following this thread with interest Jon.

 I'm in a similar boat where some sort of extraction would help stop the workshop becoming out of bounds until the coloured mists settle  Undecided. I just invested in a new compressor and half decent airbrush so a home made booth would make sense.

In addition to the fan you mention I noticed a fan on ebay as a cheap (£14) extractor

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Manrose-4-inch-Standard-Bathroom-Wall-Ceiling-Mounted-Quiet-Extractor-Fan-White

or even for a bit more (£17 - £18)  one that could go inline with some flexible hose and moves 183 -243m3 per Hr

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vents-axial-inline-fan-bathroom-fan-125-VKO-Series-up-to-243-m-h-IPX4

The hose adds more expense though at about £8 a metre.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Flexible-Aluminium-Ducting-Hose-Round-Ventilation-Tube-Flexi-Duct-Flexipipe

Just thinking out loud really, not sure what I will do which is why it's good to hear the discussion here. The in line fan looks good on the face of it

edit - I tried to add a link but I can't get them to work - Hopefully there's enough info in the links to do your own ebay search if you're interested
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 04:31:54 PM by Squirrelnet » Logged
Andrew Darby
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« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2018, 04:40:32 PM »

The larger “computer” type axial fans are a good option.  Many are dc low voltage, so you can power them from a wall wart, they are pretty quiet, and the decent ones are locked rotor protected.  They don’t spark since they are electronically comutated.

Although AC motors don’t spark, they can get quite warm to hot (especially single phase ones), and stalled (ie in a locked rotor scenario) they can get bloody hot!  Shocked. Current rules state that they should have thermistor in the windings to prevent this from happening... but....

Of course for a pukka extraction system the motor would have to be ATEX rated, but i agree that you really shouldn’t need to go that far!

Andrew
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« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2018, 05:24:18 PM »

For a budget booth, grab one of these boxes, hole in the back, cheap fan and hose and you're done  Grin

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00ORQ13T0/ref=asc_df_B00ORQ13T057405348/?tag=googshopuk-21&creative=22110&creativeASIN=B00ORQ13T0&linkCode=df0&hvadid=256255917267&hvpos=1o4&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13759456258232826451&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046019&hvtargid=pla-422328351513&th=1&psc=1
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« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2018, 11:06:09 PM »

Sorry for the delay.  I had a family medical issue to attend to...

I quickly pulled out my spray booth, took some measurements and put together this rough plan.  the specs for the two fans that I'm using can be found here: https://www.mechatronics.com/pdf/UF17PC.pdf

The plan only shows the portion of the booth that removes the fumes... not the back and sides of the top side (not sure if that makes sense but maybe my photos will help)

I'll try to get the photos up soon.

Attached files Thumbnail(s):
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Andrew Darby
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« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2018, 02:19:15 AM »

Them’s the fans I meant, that looks like a good scheme...

Andrew
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2018, 03:26:34 AM »

Thanks Randoloid - yes, I understand the design, and agree that it looks like a good scheme.  (Hope your family health issue is sorted.)

Converting units, each of your two fans draws 385m3/hr; together they total 770m3/hr - nine times more volume than the single tiddler I was thinking of using!  These are the 'H' (high) versions which produce 55dB each; the 'L' (low) versions draw half the volume at 37dB.

They are available here in the UK at not too crippling a price.  Your particular model has a long lead-time but there are similar Mechatronics ones in stock, just need to check their specs.

The 20mm thick spraybooth fleece arrived yesterday.  If I adopted your downdraft solution, the fleece by itself should make a suitable 'soft' floor, sat on a simple wire lattice (from coat-hangers) without the need for a perforated board.  The base unit and superstructure would be simple to construct from ply, the hood from any lightweight material.  Would be great to see a photo of your complete unit in due course.

Putting it all together, and planning on a slightly larger base dimension of 36" x 18" (yours is 30" x 15"), I wonder if I can get away with the two quieter but less powerful fans sucking air through the open-fleece floor?  Would you say that - in use - your booth has the right amount of suction or too much?  Would too powerful a system not simply suck paint away from the surface being sprayed, especially around the edges?

Cheers
Jon

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Jack Plane
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« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2018, 03:33:56 AM »

I'm following this thread with interest Jon.

 I'm in a similar boat where some sort of extraction would help stop the workshop becoming out of bounds until the coloured mists settle  Undecided. I just invested in a new compressor and half decent airbrush so a home made booth would make sense.

...

edit - I tried to add a link but I can't get them to work - Hopefully there's enough info in the links to do your own ebay search if you're interested

Hi Chris

The link system on HPA (second button in from the left on the line above the smilies) takes a bit of getting used to.

This is the basic outcome of copying and pasting the link in the middle of the url square-brackets thing:

https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/forecast/week/tahiti_french-polynesia_4033649

But by replacing the repeated URL in the second half of the line (which you can see in full only if you edit the post you've just put up) with a better description, eg 'LINK' or 'WEATHER IN TAHITI', it will look like this:

LINK or WEATHER IN TAHITI

Try quoting this post and look at how the above two lines appear in full to see what I mean.

Jon  Smiley

« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 03:46:08 AM by Jack Plane » Logged
Pete Fardell
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« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2018, 04:06:21 AM »

Jon, can you demo that again please but with a link to your bank account?

(Just need to book a flight to Tahiti)
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randoloid
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« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2018, 06:19:45 AM »


The 20mm thick spraybooth fleece arrived yesterday.  If I adopted your downdraft solution, the fleece by itself should make a suitable 'soft' floor, sat on a simple wire lattice (from coat-hangers) without the need for a perforated board.  The base unit and superstructure would be simple to construct from ply, the hood from any lightweight material.  Would be great to see a photo of your complete unit in due course.

Putting it all together, and planning on a slightly larger base dimension of 36" x 18" (yours is 30" x 15"), I wonder if I can get away with the two quieter but less powerful fans sucking air through the open-fleece floor?  Would you say that - in use - your booth has the right amount of suction or too much?  Would too powerful a system not simply suck paint away from the surface being sprayed, especially around the edges?


I knew that I had "too much" fan with the design - I use two flexible dryer hoses to get the fumes outside and know that they impede airflow quite a bit.  I haven't had an issue with too much airflow keeping my airbrush from painting but I'd be willing to bet that the quieter and "less sucky" fans would work just fine.  While doing my research I looked at the risks associated with fire and decided that since OSHA wouldn't be inspecting me that I'd be ok Wink. I do turn the fans on before spraying or even mixing and let the booth run a couple minutes after I finish before I turn my system off.

I also use a furnace filter below my peg board to filter before extraction- I think you are spot on by using the fleece.  It will help keep things clean - Occasionally I get annoyed at all the overspray on my work surface and grab a can of white spray paint to freshen my pegboard up a bit

All I can say is that I'm really happy with it's functionality... while it may be a little more complex than other designs, I went with down draft style because it's similar to a commercial automotive spray booth (in terms of airflow).

I also added some battery powered led lights to the sides and back to really illuminate my work- once again copying a commercial booth- just on a much smaller scale.


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Jack Plane
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« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2018, 01:42:36 PM »

Jon, can you demo that again please but with a link to your bank account?

(Just need to book a flight to Tahiti)

Sure Pete, I need the money and every little bit helps...!  Grin
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2018, 01:51:35 PM »

Thanks Rando for the extra info.

Will be running with my slight variation of your downdraft design, so your input much appreciated!

Jon
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Squirrelnet
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« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2019, 01:42:11 PM »

Ok here's my low tech, under a tenner, answer to the spray booth.

It comprises - 1 cardboard box, a cheap 12v Computer fan from eBay and some tumble dryer hose also from ebay

The fan has a couple of moulded in threads for a self tapper so it was screwed to the cardboard with a suitably large washer. The 125mm PVC ducting is taped to the back so it can be stuck out of the workshop window. The power is supplied by a 12v power supply I have anyway for powering my battery chargers.

Does it work ?  .... don't know yet... I'll keep you posted. Got to be better than nothing though ?

It awaits its first victim Cool
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fred
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« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2019, 06:46:53 PM »

looks like it should work  although IMO..a larger  Cardboard carton wouldn't go amiss in containing oversprays .
 These (as example )  https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.fiberglass-3-pack-16x25x1.1000417261.html
make for decent  DIY carton booth filters.
 Either fitted as flooring or back wall. One can even get cheaper or pricier .. accordian pleated filter material ones, if the whim takes you
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Squirrelnet
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« Reply #42 on: January 19, 2019, 01:16:58 PM »

Thanks Fred it seems you are right, it worked well

I sprayed a fuselage today with primer and the fan successfully pulled the overspray out of the workshop.

Where I had previously had to vacate the workshop and cover everything to avoid the mist settling , this time any overspray cloud quickly disappeared and never filled the workshop space like it did before.

The fan has gained a mist of white primer so its obviously pulling some of the paint overspray away as it should. I have no filter, it's just a crude extraction system

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lincoln
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« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2019, 02:18:37 PM »

I think, for just sprayed acrylic on a small model, you guys are over-reacting. Particularly if it's a stick and tissue model that's supposed to fly well. I should think just a dust mask and some overspray protection (newspaper, tarp, plastic sheet etc.) ought to be more than enough.

On the other hand, for dope near the water heater or furnace pilot light, a spray booth is a really good idea.

When I was using brain melting contact cement, I was fortunate enough to have a basement that had a built in exhaust fan. It had been used as a commercial kitchen at one point. I got a cardboard box that had once been for a large appliance and backed it up against the fan. As I recall, I had some plastic sheet or something that I'd dangle over the open front when I wasn't actually spraying, to minimize any circulation coming back into the room. It's been a while, but I seem to recall it worked pretty well. Probably overkill, but convenient.

For those in the US, you can find surplus fans at goldmine-elec.com, allelectronics.com, sciplus.com and surpluscenter.com. The selection varies over time, but you can often find fairly inexpensive stuff.

The specs, of course, matter. Not just CFM but the pressure too, usually expressed in inches of water. OTOH, you'd have to look up and calculate how much pressure to expect with the hose, etc. that you're using. You may have to take the model number and get the specs off the manufacturer's site.
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« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2019, 04:35:47 PM »

Chris,
         From what I see you have made a very practical solution to ensuring a minimum impact on your surroundings. I would still use a full mask with activated carbon filters while sraying even with acrylics. Maybe an overkill but you never know what is in any of the paints we use these days. They may not smell as much but!
The Wilga is really looking good and I think will be very competitive and not just in breezy conditions.
The video of the DLG looked as if it was a very cold day, we are currently at 25 deg C.
Ricky     
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Squirrelnet
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« Reply #45 on: January 21, 2019, 02:12:18 AM »

Thanks Ricky, Yep still wearing a mask but the coloured workshop fog I was getting has gone  Cheesy

DLG session was pretty cold, around freezing, 25C sounds very attractive

Chris
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« Reply #46 on: March 28, 2019, 10:54:35 AM »

As a winter project I purchased a Dancing Wings Hobby Piper J3 laser cut kit for about £30. Not bad for a near 4' span r/c model.
The wood selection and laser cutting was excellent.  Not being able to resist I have been modifying it a bit to make it more scale-like and am happy with the work that I have done.  Now back to the thread ---.

Although I usually airbrush my scale freeflight models I never liked having to clear away the overspray and coloured paint dust everywhere in the workshop.  Nearing completion of the J3 I realised that there was going to be much more overspray dust from a model this size than from a KK size rubber model.  Then the Squirrelnet spraybooth design came to the rescue.  I had a long box courtesy of Sussex Models selling off little Taylorcraft micro r/c models.  I purchased the recommended 12v pc fan, thin plastic dryer ducting and loosely bound filter material intended for fish tanks (??) and made up something like Chris's spraybooth.  Everything that I ordered came within 3-4 days but the ducting only arrived after I complained to ebay - they sorted it out quickly after I complained but it took 3 weeks from Leicester to Cheshire.

The J3 is ready for covering but I wanted to spray a bit of colour around the cockpit area inside and out before covering.  So today saw the spraybooth finished and let the spraying commence.  No overspray, no dust, absolutely brilliant.

Now I can finish the model and give it a covering of Cub Yellow without worrying about the need to clean the workshop down afterwards.  Thanks Chris.

3rd pic shows a test strip of clean filter against the working filter to see the colour change.
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #47 on: March 28, 2019, 12:01:55 PM »

Nice one Ralph!

Still haven't made my booth yet - expect I'll do so just before I need to spray something!

Jon
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Squirrelnet
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« Reply #48 on: March 28, 2019, 03:55:33 PM »

Glad to hear it was useful. I like your fish tank filter idea, my fan has changed colour a few times already

Chris
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