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Author Topic: OSPREY 20" SPORTS GLIDER Vintage Model Company laser cut kit  (Read 7208 times)
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billdennis747
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« Reply #225 on: March 20, 2020, 05:37:33 AM »


I've found to get the area of an irregular shape, lay a string around the circumference.
Say it comes out to 14.5 inches, use that as the circumference of a circle and find the area of that.
https://www.omnicalculator.com/math/circumference
Not sure that works. In any case if you stretch your loop of string into a straight line, the moment both sides touch and all the area disappears, the enormous release of energy would destroy your workshop.
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strat-o
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« Reply #226 on: March 20, 2020, 10:21:45 AM »

Your wing area is the average of your chord lengths (chord_root + chord_tip) / 2 then multiply that number by the span.  If in doubt check the classic formula for the area of a trapezoid: [(b1 + b2) / 2] X h

One other thing, include the full span of the wing.  The center section is used in a standard wing area calculation.

Marlin
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Indoorflyer
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« Reply #227 on: March 20, 2020, 10:33:59 AM »

OSPREY  20"   SPORTS GLIDER   Vintage Model Company laser cut kit


Pic #4     4299     This is how I made two estimates of the wing area.    
Pic #5     4304     Calculations.



LASTWOODSMAN
Richard

Richard
 I've found to get the area of an irregular shape, lay a string around the circumference.
Say it comes out to 14.5 inches, use that as the circumference of a circle and find the area of that.
https://www.omnicalculator.com/math/circumference

Sorry but that "equivalent circle" is absurd.  (It only works for a frisbee or flying saucer  Roll Eyes  ) Here's a simple proof by example.  Two wing panels, each with a perimeter of 22 inches. They have very different areas, even though the perimeter is the same for both.   A circle with the same perimeter of 22" ("circumference") has an area of 38.515 in2

Richard, your calculation is conservative.  Standard wing loading calculations include the area shadowing the fuselage.  (a matter of standard practice)
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LASTWOODSMAN
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REAL PLANES HAD ROUND ENGINES AND TWO WINGS



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« Reply #228 on: March 20, 2020, 12:21:43 PM »

OSPREY  20"   SPORTS GLIDER   Vintage Model Company laser cut kit

WING AREA AND WING LOADING

    Hi Stovebolt - very good!   I didn't think to use a string, even though I have used three different sized cans, and their circumference strings, and radius measurement, to magically calculate pi =  3.1.159, just like in your handy omnicalculator link above.   I "encouraged" a kid to do this once ...   Maybe I could try and stretch that string out into an equilateral ninety degree rectangle, and get the same result as stretching it out into an expanded circle ...    
        Wooooops   Well,  I just now see some other replies ...

Hi Billdennis 474!   Right you are ...  That is how you create a stargate wormhole to another dimension.

Hi Marlin.   I was wondering about that too.   If the bottom of the fuse is flat at the center section, that would be the bottom of a flat rib, and the top of the fuse, where the wing comes through,  that would be the upper curvature of the rib, which forces the air to travel faster on top, to cover the same "Y" distance than the bottom of the rib,  causing a decrease in pressure on the top, compared to the bottom of rib air,  thus pushing the plane up in lift (but I digress),  then I agree that that area of the wing should be included, which will calculate out to a better, ie lower, wing loading.

However ...  I was looking at the shape of the belly of the fuse directly under the wing center section.  I appears to be somewhat curved like an elliptical airfoil,  but not as cambered as the top of the wing center section.   Therefore, ... ,  would that not decrease the lift, compared to the two outward bays of the wing,  to a point where the actual lift might be negligible for that center section ?

Hi Indoor Flyer!   Thanks  -  I never knew that - even after all the math I took in College and University.  (duh)   Undecided

Excuse me a while -  there are some calculations I now have to perform and exercise my grey matter of my brain  ... where is my slide rule ...  I mean hand held calculator.


Pic #1    4326     Curvature on fuse belly under wing center section.
Pic #2    4327     Other side

     Well, it is a ghost town around here and at night.   The border is closed between Canada and the US.   Nobody is walking around - just a few of the dog walkers in Jackson Park.   Shelves empty in grocery stores, and you can now only buy two of one item.     Our big Fiat Chrysler final assembly plant (6000 workers), and all suppliers, also are all shut down.   All restaurants are take out only.   The weather is too windy and wet,  but I don't think I should walk into Jackson Park to fly a plane right now when everybody is just staying inside  ...   strongly urged by our Prime Minister.    The latest is that the state of California (most populous at 40 million) in the US,  has now has issued a mandatory order to not go outside ...

LASTWOODSMAN
Richard
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« Reply #229 on: March 20, 2020, 04:00:43 PM »


Sorry but that "equivalent circle" is absurd.  (It only works for a frisbee or flying saucer  Roll Eyes  ) Here's a simple proof by example.  Two wing panels, each with a perimeter of 22 inches. They have very different areas, even though the perimeter is the same for both.   A circle with the same perimeter of 22" ("circumference") has an area of 38.515 in2


Indoor flier
please explain/show the panels.
Thanks Pat
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stovebolt
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« Reply #230 on: March 20, 2020, 04:06:55 PM »

Indoor flyer I apologize, it is nuts, sorry
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LASTWOODSMAN
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« Reply #231 on: March 20, 2020, 08:34:11 PM »

OSPREY  20"   SPORTS GLIDER   Vintage Model Company laser cut kit

WING AREA CALCULATION

     Ok -  I will now try to include the center wing section (to calculate the wing area), over the fuse,  and go with three "bays" wide -   from the trailing edge taper break, through the center wing fuse section, all the way across to the other side, trailing edge taper break -  pretty straight forward  L x W.     Then two trapezoids for the rest of the wing.   And see if my conservative estimates, (just remove the center section from the new full wing area),  are even close,  or not.     Calculations coming up ...

     In these Corona virus flu Pandemic times, people are hoarding, especially when it is declared a national emergency.  Food stores have changed their opening time to one hour earlier,   reserved only for the seniors,  to get their food before the rush.   I was sent this old poster from WW2  -   "PATRIOTIC CANADIANS WILL NOT HOARD FOOD "   note the seriousness of the fines and jail time, and the menacing, profile in shadow, of the billy club officer through the window.  

Pic #1     PATRIOTIC CANADIANS WILL NOT HOARD FOOD

LASTWOODSMAN
Richard
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OH, I HAVE SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS OF EARTH ... UP, UP THE LONG DELIRIOUS BURNING BLUE ... SUNWARD I'VE CLIMBED AND JOINED THE TUMBLING MIRTH OF SUN-SPLIT CLOUDS ...
LASTWOODSMAN
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« Reply #232 on: March 21, 2020, 01:06:04 PM »

OSPREY  20"   SPORTS GLIDER   Vintage Model Company laser cut kit

NEW WING AREA CALCULATION including the area of the wing center section shadowing the fuselage

     I kept trying to figure out this trapezoid shape.  First, I drew an estimated line, through the wingtip area, measuring 1.75", which I would use for the calculation of distance "A".    I measured out the center "section", and the mock up of the outer wing trapezoid.   It wasn't an acute trapezoid and it wasn't an obtuse trapezoid;   it was a right angled trapezoid or right trapezoid. see pic #1.  The "H" distance, has to be measure between the two  90  degree corners. That was a real brain strain.  Undecided

Pic #1     TRAPEZOIDS

Pic #2     4328     Overview of the calculations      

Pic #3     4336     Final wing loading calculations, when counting the fuse area of the wing   =    0.542  grams per square inch.   Much better than 0.593 as I had first calculated.

pic #4     4340     The missing fuse section for the wing loading calculations has an area of  3.523 inches squared.   If I add this to my original wing are of  40.50 in sq,  I get  44.023 in sq.   Divide that into 24.03 total grams of the glider,  and I get a wing loading of  0.546 grams per square inch  -   almost the same as the final 0.542 grams per square inch.

     So there we have it.   Wing loading is  0.542 grams per square inch of wing surface.   Should really glide well.
     Next up, final balancing check on the pins, then test glides are in order.     And maybe make a very small catapult, with very small rubber, of a very small length.

Pic #5     CATAPULT
Pic #6     CATAPULT 2

LASTWOODSMAN
Richard
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« Reply #233 on: March 21, 2020, 03:19:40 PM »

Richard, whatever you do, do NOT use that catapult. Look again at what OZPAF (John) put in Reply 222. "Hi Start 7.5m of 1/8” rubber Plus 22.5m of line ". Your catapult will simply rip the wings off.
Ron
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« Reply #234 on: March 21, 2020, 04:09:41 PM »

Glad you got the wing area sorted, and some reassurance on the wing loading numbers.  The neat thing about calculating a trapezoid's area, the formula doesn't "care" what kind of trapezoid you are calculating...  You only need two parallel sides, which are the "root" rib and the tip rib of the panel you are calculating.  Next, you simply measure the distance between the two ribs. The leading edge can be swept back, the TE swept forward, or both swept back. It doesn't matter.  Just add the two rib lengths together, divide by two, then multiply that by the span of the panel.  The formula, even though it takes a few more steps, obviously works for two special cases of a trapezoid---the square and the rectangle.
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LASTWOODSMAN
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« Reply #235 on: March 21, 2020, 09:30:35 PM »

OSPREY  20"   SPORTS GLIDER   Vintage Model Company laser cut kit

CATAPULT LAUNCH     VS     HI START LAUNCH

    Hi Ron.   I won't use that catapult.    I did look what OZPAF (John) put in Reply 222. "Hi Start 7.5m of 1/8” rubber Plus 22.5m of line ".   Thanks for that John - the keywords to use in a search.  Then I watched a few videos of "high launch glider".    Some of them showed the glider winding down in spins into the ground, like a kite,  with the tow line also still attached.   Some flights worked out great.   I will have to use that chrome cork screw metal "dog stake"  for an anchor.   And I just found my fishing box.
        One of the videos also said to "scale down" the  "Hi Start 7.5m of 1/8” rubber Plus 22.5m of line ".    Since I am only flying in a small Cricket field, surrounded by mature trees,  I don't intend to be sending it up any higher than those trees, or it will be gone ...   I can see how the hi start will give a nice slow climb upwards into the wind,  until it climbs out right over the stake, and then releases the tow hook.    With  7.5 m   of  1/8"  rubber and  22.5 m of fishing line,  that is  30 m or 90 feet above the ground, well above the tree height.   So, I think I will have to scale it down.   How about 7 feet of 3/32"  rubber (smallest rubbber I have), and 23 feet of fishing line to start (for thirty feet or ten meters length),  so that the tow hook  releases the glider, at only 30 feet above the ground.   The glider has to stay in the cricket field, so if it wants to glide really far, I will try to get it to turn ...
     Hi Indoorflyer.   I got it now.   Dimension "A" is the root rib length, while dimension "B" is the parallel wing tip rib length.   Thanks for the drawings again.   Now I can calculate the swept wings on my  18"  wingspan  Dumas "MIG 17" jet, which has those swept wings.   Even though I put in dihedral into the wings, while the real jet had anhedral wings,  it has the dihedral necessary to actually fly as it sits, if ever I get around to trying to fly it.

Pic #1     Hi Start Launch
Pic #2     HIGH START TOW AND RELEASE HOOK AND RING AND DRAG CHUTE
Pic #3     HIGH START TOW HOOK AND RIBBON
Pic #4     HIGH START WINCH
Pic #5     AERO TOW WINCH
Pic #6     LAUNCH WITH ROCKET WATER

LASTWOODSMAN
Richard
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« Reply #236 on: March 22, 2020, 01:19:17 AM »

Quote
So, I think I will have to scale it down.   How about 7 feet of 3/32"  rubber (smallest rubbber I have), and 23 feet of fishing line to start (for thirty feet or ten meters length),  so that the tow hook  releases the glider, at only 30 feet above the ground

That should be ok Richard. The height will depend on the tension as well. You just need a long steady gentle pull. try stretching the rubber say to twice it's length or so and then move from there. The result will be very similar to a hand tow and you will need to take it slowly until you are sure it will not start trying to swing badly on the launch.

Any turn you add with the rubber will affect the launch - most noticeably if the launch is fast, which hopefully on this light rubber it won't be.

A simple stake driven in about 4-6" into the ground should be enough. We only used simple stakes like this on the high powered winches we used in F3B and unless the ground is marshy cannot see the reason for coil type dog anchors. Use an old screw driver Smiley

Just use a small square of light cloth about a foot below a ring(ring pull ring) on the end of the line to help it release and also angle the bottom of the section of the hook down  slightly - ie instead of it being 90 deg to the section in the fuse make it about 95 - 100. This will help the line to drop off at the top of the tow.

We are all keen to see this bird flying - good luck.

John
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LASTWOODSMAN
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« Reply #237 on: March 23, 2020, 05:51:26 AM »

OSPREY 20"   SPORTS GLIDER   Vintage Model Company laser cut kit

FINAL BALANCE CHECK  

     Hi John.    Thanks for all of that.   I do have the tow line now completed ...  coming up.

     The Osprey is ready to fly, but we need one final balance check,  to confirm that it still balances on the   C of G   on the plan.   Then, I need the final pics taken while it is still new ....   ie -  not destroyed ....

Pic #1     4341     It still balances perfectly.    You can see the appx.  3 degree postitive incidence on the wing,  and zero incidence on the stab.    
Pic #2     4343     Side view.
Pic #3     4344     Underside view.   Gotta get these pics done, in case I smash it up ...
Pic #4     4345     Top side.
Pic #5     4346     Top and a little right.

LASTWOODSMAN
Richard
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OH, I HAVE SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS OF EARTH ... UP, UP THE LONG DELIRIOUS BURNING BLUE ... SUNWARD I'VE CLIMBED AND JOINED THE TUMBLING MIRTH OF SUN-SPLIT CLOUDS ...
LASTWOODSMAN
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« Reply #238 on: March 23, 2020, 10:13:34 AM »

OSPREY  20"   SPORTS GLIDER   Vintage Model Company laser cut kit

LAST OF THESE PICS

Pic #1     4347     This is the pic in flight that I am after.
Pic #2     4348     The tow hook is not bent out a little, yet ...
Pic #3     4349     Quartering top view left side.
Pic #4     4350     Here it is trying to fly off the pins.
Pic #5     4351     The balance looks just right.

LASTWOODSMAN
Richard
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OH, I HAVE SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS OF EARTH ... UP, UP THE LONG DELIRIOUS BURNING BLUE ... SUNWARD I'VE CLIMBED AND JOINED THE TUMBLING MIRTH OF SUN-SPLIT CLOUDS ...
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« Reply #239 on: March 23, 2020, 10:35:34 AM »

OSPREY  20"   SPORTS GLIDER  Vintage Model Company laser cut kit

MOCK UP OUTDOOR FLIGHT PICS     using the Balance Pins

     These are pics that I may never get in the air,  so I might as well get them now while the Osprey glider is still new -- snowing outside right now ...

Pic #1     4353      Soaring low over the earth.
Pic #2     4354      Looks like it is floating in the glide.
Pic #3     4355      Coming out of the valley.
Pic #4     4356      Floating against the wind.
Pic #5     4358      Last of the static display pics.    

That's all folks -  on to the towline ...   Everything is in place, except for the weather.

LASTWOODSMAN
Richard
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OH, I HAVE SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS OF EARTH ... UP, UP THE LONG DELIRIOUS BURNING BLUE ... SUNWARD I'VE CLIMBED AND JOINED THE TUMBLING MIRTH OF SUN-SPLIT CLOUDS ...
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« Reply #240 on: March 23, 2020, 06:23:14 PM »

OSPREY  20"   SPORTS GLIDER   Vintage Model Company laser cut kit

TOW LINE  CONSTRUCTION   for  HIGH START LAUNCH

Pic #1     4366     Twenty three feet of white twine weighs  16.78 grams.   The smallest key ring I could find is on the left.

Pic #2     4367     Here is my Tow line completed.    Silver tent peg, connected to 7 feet of rubber, connected to  23 feet  of  white string cord twine,  with orange flagging tape for a "drag chute",  and a key ring to hook it all onto the wire tow hook,  tied to the end of the twine.

Pic #3     4368     3/32 "  rubber is from Volare.

Pic #4      4369     Flagging tape (drag chute ?? ),   is attached about  27"  down the line.   Note the two hook and the key ring.

Pic #5      4370     The opening of the wire of the tow hook,  has been opened up a touch like Ozpaf suggested,  and  it now wants to slide off easily.

     Even though the wind is low right now,  the grass is soaking wet from the snow melting.   I think I will try some short kneeling and standing  tosses, at the raised knoll that the replica Spit and Hurricane sit on, where the grass is good, just short little tosses in between the small trees.   I will bring some clay weight and try to get some pics.

      It looks like good "flying" weather two days from now!!    Cheesy     And we can still walk the park trails in Jackson Park.   Grin

Pic #6     FORECAST WED MARCH 25 2020

     Any trimming suggestions are welcome.   Smiley

LASTWOODSMAN
Richard
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« Last Edit: March 23, 2020, 08:09:29 PM by LASTWOODSMAN » Logged

OH, I HAVE SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS OF EARTH ... UP, UP THE LONG DELIRIOUS BURNING BLUE ... SUNWARD I'VE CLIMBED AND JOINED THE TUMBLING MIRTH OF SUN-SPLIT CLOUDS ...
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« Reply #241 on: March 25, 2020, 09:13:06 AM »

OSPREY 20"   SPORTS GLIDER   Vintage Model Company laser cut kit

THE FLIGHT LINE

     It is a sunny morning as Mandrake and Bloodroot carry the 20"  OSPREY glider to the flight line.   Today is THE DAY they have been waiting for,  after all of their hard work, and the weather is great for flying ...   it looks like the weather forecast is coming true ....   Cheesy    Time for some short glide testing and then the "maiden"  flight.    Shocked    It is 9:00 AM, and Trapper and I have already got our morning walk in.    All the birds are singing ...

Pic #1     4407

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« Reply #242 on: March 25, 2020, 10:27:53 PM »

OSPREY  20"   SPORTS GLIDER   Vintage Model Company laser cut kit

FLIGHT REPORT          WEDNESDAY MARCH 25 2020

     This is my first glider and my first attempt at flying it.   It was not too successful (but then again it is just the first flying session, and it is home now with no damage), but finally a sunny brilliant day to be outdoors instead of being cooped up.

Pic #1     4408     The walk out.   This is the entrance to Jackson Park.   The tulips are coming up around the flagpole.
Pic #2     4409     Here is the Osprey glider against the cloudless outside sky.

     At  10:05 AM,  the weather was 34 deg F (feels like 30 deg F),  the winds were blowing from the North at 5 mph, gusting to 8 mph,  humidity 90%.

Pic #3     4410     There is no wind on the flag at the Spitfire and Hurricane replicas.
Pic #4     4411     I did a couple of test glides on the gentle knoll slope by the Spit and Hurri. 
Pic #5     4413     They both glided way out there, a slight dowhill, between those little trees.
Pic #6     4414     Here we are setting up in the middle of the Cricket Field.

cont on next reply

LASTWOODSMAN
Richard
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Re: OSPREY 20" SPORTS GLIDER Vintage Model Company laser cut kit
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OH, I HAVE SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS OF EARTH ... UP, UP THE LONG DELIRIOUS BURNING BLUE ... SUNWARD I'VE CLIMBED AND JOINED THE TUMBLING MIRTH OF SUN-SPLIT CLOUDS ...
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« Reply #243 on: March 25, 2020, 10:36:22 PM »

OSPREY  20"   SPORTS GLIDER   Vintage Model Company laser cut kit

FLIGHT REPORT          WEDNESDAY MARCH 25 2020

cont from prev reply
    
Pic #1     4415     Here is 30 feet of tow line rolled out, and the front end is pegged into the ground.

Pic #2     4416     The towline is hooked up and stretched out a little.

Pic #3     4417     This is the launch angle.

Pic #4     4419     The first flight lands right on the "pitch".   Cheesy

Pic #5     4420     Swooping back up, after releasing the towline early (none of the flights released over top of the tent peg stake),   and was still pointing up, and therefor, then continuing to go almost straight up, then stalling, and then plunging back towards earth, and then just recovering, by swooping back up, and just missing (or skimming !!   Shocked Shocked  )  the "pitch".     All of the flights seemed to go like this, even after adding more nose weight.

Pic #6     4421     Then I started to change locations and launch directions.   I thought it was because I was launching into the wind,  that caused it to climb too high.   Is it really because the tow hook was sliding off way to soon Huh

cont on next reply

LASTWOODSMAN
Richard
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Re: OSPREY 20" SPORTS GLIDER Vintage Model Company laser cut kit
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OH, I HAVE SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS OF EARTH ... UP, UP THE LONG DELIRIOUS BURNING BLUE ... SUNWARD I'VE CLIMBED AND JOINED THE TUMBLING MIRTH OF SUN-SPLIT CLOUDS ...
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REAL PLANES HAD ROUND ENGINES AND TWO WINGS



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« Reply #244 on: March 25, 2020, 10:45:42 PM »

OSPREY 20"   SPORTS GLIDER   Vintage Model Company laser cut kit

FLIGHT REPORT          WEDNESDAY MARCH 25 2020

cont from prev reply

Pic #1     4422     Here is one of the few inflight pics I got.  By the time the digital camera "captured" the pic, a couple of seconds after I pressed down the shutter button,  the glider was usually on the ground already.  The flights were all still about 5 sec.   

Pic #2     4423     Here is a pic of the typical flight, just missing hitting the pitch, when recovering from the dive.

Pic #3     4424    Crashes nose first into the ground were very light, with no audible "crack", and no damage, because the grass was fluffing up.

Pic #4     4425     I put in this small lump of clay (0.49 g), sitting on my log Notebook, into the ballast chamber, to see if it would fix the problem.

Pic #5     4426     I even tried launching the glider at a more level angle of attack.  Here you see some slack in the towline, from the the seven foot stretch.

Pic #6     4427     Another late pic into the ground, and not capturing the glider while still in the air.

cont on next reply

LASTWOODSMAN
Richard
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Re: OSPREY 20" SPORTS GLIDER Vintage Model Company laser cut kit
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OH, I HAVE SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS OF EARTH ... UP, UP THE LONG DELIRIOUS BURNING BLUE ... SUNWARD I'VE CLIMBED AND JOINED THE TUMBLING MIRTH OF SUN-SPLIT CLOUDS ...
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REAL PLANES HAD ROUND ENGINES AND TWO WINGS



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« Reply #245 on: March 25, 2020, 10:51:24 PM »

OSPREY 20"   SPORTS GLIDER   Vintage Model Company laser cut kit

FLIGHT REPORT          WEDNESDAY MARCH 25 2020

cont from prev reply

Pic #1     4428     This is a rare pic for the day, showing the in-flight glide path.

Pic #2     4429    BEST PIC -  shooting out on the Tow line.   I put hardly any pull on this one ... just to try to get a pic ...

Pic #3     4430     Another good outside pic.

Pic #4     4431    BEST FLIGHT  -  12  seconds (the only long flight -  the next longest was 6 seconds).   This one turned left.   I was trying to launch at different directions, to the seemingly soft, and ever changing, wind directions.

Pic #5     4432     This one went straight in also.  Sad
Pic #6     4434     The clouds are starting to move in.

cont on next reply

LASTWOODSMAN
Richard
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OH, I HAVE SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS OF EARTH ... UP, UP THE LONG DELIRIOUS BURNING BLUE ... SUNWARD I'VE CLIMBED AND JOINED THE TUMBLING MIRTH OF SUN-SPLIT CLOUDS ...
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REAL PLANES HAD ROUND ENGINES AND TWO WINGS



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« Reply #246 on: March 25, 2020, 10:57:37 PM »

OSPREY 20"   SPORTS GLIDER   Vintage Model Company laser cut kit

FLIGHT REPORT         WEDNESDAY MARCH 25 2020

cont from prev reply

Pic #1     4439     Not  quite the same blue as the sky.

Pic #2     4440     Towline and glider.

     So, after 20 flights (and a bunch more test glides mixed in), and with the glider still intact (only green grass stains on the bottom of the nose), we headed back home,  to fly another day.    

Pic #3     4445     The new (I think ...),  Cooper's Hawk nest, right in the middle, near the top of the Pine tree,  and the female Cooper's hawk.  Both male and female parents are back this year.  Last year they fledged four young hawks.

Pic #4     4444     Glider, Trapper, hawk nest, female Cooper's Hawk.

     We got home around noon.  The high of the day was 55 deg F.   We even went for a long walk at my meadow/butterfly/woods.  The frogs were croaking in full chorus, and lots of birds all singing.   Best of all,  I just got permission to use the very large, overgrown, and now closed down, shooting range, if I want to fly my planes ...

     So there is the spring update from Jackson Park.  I do have a lot of figuring out to do, to get the Osprey glider trimmed out.  Open to suggestions ....

Things for me to consider?
-  I only lucked out on one good flight, 12 sec,  the rest were 5 or 6 sec wild up and downs.
- ? -   how to get it to get to the top altitude, while still on the tow, and leveling off at the horizontal, and then slipping the tow line ?
- should the glider not "bunt over" at the top?
- close up the tow hook opening somewhat ?  to keep the tow  line ring on the tow hook longer ?
-   only go on a dead calm day?
-   add more weight (shudder) in the nose ? - I already added 0.49  grams of clay into the glider's balast box at the field
-  put on two elevator tabs,  bending them down a  little bit ?
-  there already appears to be decalage from the 3 degree positive incidence of the wings, to the stabilizer/fuse thrust line/datum.
- I want to keep the left turn ...

End of Flight Report   March 25 2020

Get outside and fly!   Smiley

LASTWOODSMAN
Richard
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Re: OSPREY 20" SPORTS GLIDER Vintage Model Company laser cut kit
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OH, I HAVE SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS OF EARTH ... UP, UP THE LONG DELIRIOUS BURNING BLUE ... SUNWARD I'VE CLIMBED AND JOINED THE TUMBLING MIRTH OF SUN-SPLIT CLOUDS ...
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« Reply #247 on: March 31, 2020, 01:35:32 AM »

Richard it appears from your descriptions that the model doesn't climb on the high start all that much, but accelerates in a shallow climb and then drops off the line. Is this correct? If it is it is most likely that the rubber is too powerful and accelerates the model and then runs out of stretch.
 
Your model is much smaller than the 36"WS Peterborough models and would probably only require thinner rubber. In hindsight shortening the rubber has also possibly made the situation worse by developing too much "pull' with a short stretch.

The ideal rubber should be capable of being stretched around 4-6 times(or more) it's static length without being too powerful.
As the 3/32" may be the smallest you have then if I'm right - it may need to be lengthened.

However before you do that - I also gather that it was not climbing all that much? As the model appears to have a reasonable glide - then under tension(providing it is not too much) climb in a steep nose up manner - very similar to a kite being towed up. If it leaves your hand and has a very shallow climb under reasonable tension - then the tow hook location may need adjustment - check the comments re tow hook location on the following link by Jim Mosely(Applehoney) and John Cooper
http://freeflight.bmfa.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Glider-Towing.pdf

As an example I used 1/4"(old black) rubber to high start a 60" 13oz RC glider successfully.

Good luck.

John
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« Reply #248 on: April 02, 2020, 12:33:56 AM »

OSPREY  20"   SPORTS GLIDER   Vintage Model Company laser cut kit

     Hi John.   Thanks for those great articles from Jim Mosely(Applehoney) and John Cooper  and Andy Crisp and Per Findahl.   I have been reading through them.   There is a lot there, and pretty complicated too.
       I am now all ready for the next flying session after doing the following.   In order to check the tow hook position first,  I hung the glider by its tow hook, see Pic #2   4473   and Pic #3  4474,  and the angle of the fuse looks OK ... I think (or should I remove that 0.49 grams of clay weight that I had added at the Cricket field?   to make the fuse more at 20 degrees ...   - now that I really look at it   Lips sealed   ).   
      Then I took two pairs of needle nose pliers (I will bring them to the field next time    Roll Eyes ),   and I closed down the tow hook back to horizontal, to see if it will stay on the line longer.   The problem was that the tow hook was releasing half way up, on a fast quick climb (not a shallow climb), and too early.    Then I made up a new tow line with twice the length of the rubber -  16 feet of kite string, and 14 feet of  3/32"  rubber.  The old tow line was  23 feet of white cord (heavier than the kite string),  and 7 feet of 3/32" rubber.   I will see if the 'longer rubber' tow line will slow down the tow speed, while the glider is rising up right after launch,  and thus enable the glider to reach the top of the tow line directly over head, and then release the tow hook way up there, and then have the glider continue into its circle glide to the left.
     The weather looks really good  Shocked   Shocked   tomorrow and for the next few days .... They are really pressing the stay at home directive, though, but not an order yet,  so we will see if I can sneak into the vacated and abandoned (for the most part), Jackson Park, with my dog and the glider .... for "exercise". 

Pic #1     TOW HOOK POSITION

Pic #2     4473     It is hanging by a string right at the bend of the tow hook.  It looks like I should take out that extra 0.49 grams of clay weight I added at the field.

Pic #3     4474     Another view - definitely sitting more toward the "straight tow" side of the 20 degree line.   I want the "circle tow" side of the 20 degree line.

Pic #4     4476     Here is the 'opened' tow hook position.

Pic #5     4477     Now the tow hook is back to just shy of horizontal.

Pic #6     4478     The new tow line with the kite string and the longer rubber portion (to slow down the acceleration), is on the left with the pink ribbon.    The old tow line is on the right with the orange ribbon and thicker white cord, and a shorter rubber portion on the line.

LASTWOODSMAN'
Richard
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Re: OSPREY 20" SPORTS GLIDER Vintage Model Company laser cut kit
Re: OSPREY 20" SPORTS GLIDER Vintage Model Company laser cut kit
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Re: OSPREY 20" SPORTS GLIDER Vintage Model Company laser cut kit
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OH, I HAVE SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS OF EARTH ... UP, UP THE LONG DELIRIOUS BURNING BLUE ... SUNWARD I'VE CLIMBED AND JOINED THE TUMBLING MIRTH OF SUN-SPLIT CLOUDS ...
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« Reply #249 on: April 02, 2020, 07:41:45 PM »

Good luck with it Richard. I'm in a similar position re access to a FF flying field, although the local council has signs around the park prohibiting the flying of models amongst a lot of other things.

Cheers,
John
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