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Author Topic: Gee Bee Z - Dumas kit build  (Read 2611 times)
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John Webster
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« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2019, 03:55:10 AM »

This might seem like a step backward but it creates an opportunity.

Split the pants along the original join line. Attach the inner pant to the landing gear wire using a former that fits the inside of the pant and the inside of the gear wire. A piece of light fiberglass cloth over the gear wire and former epoxied to the inside of the pant should secure it.

The opportunity here is to add a bulkhead to the inside of the pant where the flying wires will attach thus providing a better anchor point than the thin plastic. Cut the holes in the pants for the attach points. If you're using thread for the flying wires a couple of plastic or aluminum tubes sewed to the bulkhead should work.

Glue strips of the pant plastic to the inside of the pant that straddle the join line and bend them so the outer pant half slips on.

Add the wheels. Spacers may be needed to center them.

Glue the outer pant half on.

I've been following your build closely because I have the Dumas R1 kit lurking in my unbuilt shelf.
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A pilot starts out with a bag full of luck and an empty bag for experience. The object is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.
fred
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« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2019, 01:29:39 PM »

Interesting issue. Those pants are merely decorative shells.. not load bearing... which would eliminate any problem.
 Cut a small slot from the axle hole down on One side of the Pant ?
 Maybe.. this might allow the axle /wheel  to be wiggled into position?
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bgrove
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« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2019, 02:49:20 PM »

I did glue some inserts inside the pants for axle and brace wire connection points.  Wow - I used and plastic model glue and it really did some 'melting' of the pants!!!  The damage should get covered over when I cover them.

I finally broke out my airbrush set up that I bought back in November and put it to use.  They work well once I reacquaint myself with airbrushing.

I painted the landing gear struts and wheel pants to a sort of wood tone.  I'm hoping that when I cover them with yellow tissue they will now match.  They aren't evenly sprayed, but I don't think it will matter after covering them.

I also sprayed the front removable cowl element.  It looks good, but it is flat black.  I bought some "gloss" and "satin" finish paint - or additive.  I'm not sure if I spray in on after or mix it with the paint - I'll do some research today and then probably make it gloss.

I'm about to start covering soon, and have been trying to address all those little internal details I always forget i.e. brace wire attachment points, proper tissue attachment surfaces, etc.
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bgrove
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« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2019, 12:41:44 PM »

It's been a while since my last post.  I'm now back from 8 days in Florida and I'm start to sneak in some time on the Gee Bee.

Here is my progress:  Front cowl covers, rudder and fin covered, landing gear covered, wheel pants covered (not shown).  Next up is wing and fuselage all in yellow.  Then I'll use the patterns supplied in the plans to cut the black trim and apply that over the yellow.
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ironmike
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« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2019, 10:28:41 AM »

Nice work BG
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bgrove
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« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2019, 04:12:36 PM »

Covering continues.  I have to say I'm not happy with the tissue supplied in the kit.  It's very fragile and extremely so when wet.  I've included a shot of a wing tip where the tissue just 'pulled apart' when attempting to work out wrinkles.  This has happened several times.  Also, the tissue came folder with hard creases  Sad  Just not cool.  Fuselage is up next, then the black trim.
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flydean1
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« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2019, 09:38:47 PM »

Gave up on anything but Esaki tissue.  We spend too much time building these things to skimp on tissue. Even models not destined to contest work still deserve really good tissue.
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Red Buzzard
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« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2019, 11:41:58 AM »

BG,

I can't comment on your kit tissue. It looks pretty lightweight to me.

When you give it another shot consider doing that tip in two pieces, one per rib bay. The taper is pretty fast and doing it moist, one section at a time, will give you a smoother result. Lay the top tissue on dry to get the inboard rib top profile right and then you won't have a big wobbly seam over the rib to trouble you later. Let the outboard edge fly and use it for tension, then cut it off clean when the tissue has dried. Then do the next bay the same letting the outboard edge (actually the tip outline) fly. When you lay the last piece of tissue on you can sometimes profit by cutting the tissue edge around the tip into several smaller pieces, radially, using them as handles to gently tug out wrinkles. Gently is the operative word as the small pieces are pretty delicate.

Remember to secure all edges before proceeding to the next piece or you will just introduce tension wrinkles in the bay you just finished. A cup of coffee between pieces is not out of order!

RB
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fred
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« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2019, 11:06:34 PM »

Consider this: https://www.mybinding.com/laminating/laminating-film/thermal-film/soft-touch.html
Yess Lifetime supply quantity (share it?)
Weight is between Esaki and silkspan. BUT it's an Iron on covering film and dead easy to do a V good covering job.
 Gasp! step into the 21st century ?
 Very user friendly No more wrinkles , tears , or punctures ..paint sticks to it Well .
Bungle an application? (unlikely) but simply peel it off ...sans any balsa damages whatsoever
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vtdiy
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« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2019, 09:11:15 AM »

I stepped into the 21st century quite awhile back with earlier laminating films (for R/C) and the weight is going to be a LOT more than Esaki. You are starting out heavier even with 1.4 mil, and then unless you want a transparent finish, you are going to have to apply paint, and enough paint tomake it opaque.

While with tissue you can use colored tissue, and that's it. You don't have to dope it, at least on indoor models. Even if you dope it, it will be quite a bit lighter than painted lam film. If you opaque paint over colored tissue, it already has the base color to start with and you need much less paint to complete. Even white tissue will require less paint for light colors like yellow or red than lam film will -- in fact it will need a coat of white as an undercoat for those colors.

I'm not knocking lam film, or even the super-duper easily paintable high cost version promoted nowadays. It has its uses for painted models that can stand the extra weight -- particularly R/C models. But it is not a replacement for everything the 20th century worked out for many FF modeling purposes.
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bgrove
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« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2019, 01:32:48 PM »

The laminating film looks interesting, but I think I would only use it on larger planes that can handle the weight.

I did take a big leap last night and started to cover the fuselage.  My goal is to use as few pieces as possible.  I got one piece to cover the top and 1/2 down each side with OK results.  I'm putting the black tissue over the front which will help cover some of my 'issues'.  I also got my wing tip fixed  Smiley
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Red Buzzard
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« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2019, 10:54:21 PM »

BG,

Nice job on that tip. Put a towel over the rest of the wing and give those two tip bays a light water spritz. I think you'll be surprised. Your fuselage looks good, too. A little spritz and you'll be a master. Include your areas where you have tissue on the wood and a wrinkle trapped in there. The tissue will shrink in amazing ways and will smooth-out wrinkles in areas of wood.

RB
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cast_off_vortex
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« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2019, 07:55:06 AM »

Very cool build. Cool Covering looks very nice.

I never realized how cramped the cockpit of the GB racers were - your photos show that very well. You can see in the beginning of this clip that Lowell Bayles climbs in and then the canopy and cockpit cover (one piece) are placed over him and latched down. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO6FK_FBxBU
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bgrove
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« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2019, 02:18:19 PM »

Thanks for the link to the clip.  Yes, that is a very small cockpit.  In the clip I believe you can see he had a catastrophic left wing failure.  You can see it break away.

I have the plane all covered now and I've shrunk the tissue up with a 10:1 Eze Dope mixture, two times.  It smoothed out pretty well with only a few problem areas.  Next up is too cut and attach the black trim.  The kit comes with a nice full sheet of templates for the black tissue which is nice.
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flydean1
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« Reply #39 on: March 25, 2019, 11:12:44 PM »

The reason for the wing failure is they had installed an engine with about 50% more power than original.  Granvilles repeatedly told  him to not do it.  Wing went into flutter then parted company with the fuselage.
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mescal1
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« Reply #40 on: March 26, 2019, 09:04:03 PM »

The Gee Bee Y had the wing flutter with the larger engine, flown by Florence Kingsmith when it crashed.  The Gee Bee Z's gas cap came loose during a record attempt breaking the windshield and hitting the pilot, Lowell Bayles, in the face.  The Gee Bee Z went up and into a snap roll causing the wing to break off.  (Per "The Gee Bee Racers", by Mendenhall and Murphy.)  The Granvilles were ok with the Z motor upgrade but against the Y's upgrade.
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mescal1
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« Reply #41 on: March 26, 2019, 09:11:31 PM »

(I do realize that this happened 90 years ago and while I may sound confident about what happened, I am aware that we don't even know what happened in crashes a few years ago.  So at this point, it's all a guess and which author we want to believe.)
Mike
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flydean1
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« Reply #42 on: March 26, 2019, 10:39:02 PM »

Now you mention, I do recall the gas cap.  It was discovered many years later by frame-by-frame analysis of the film.
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bgrove
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« Reply #43 on: March 28, 2019, 06:56:47 PM »

I have to say I'm excited about getting this build finished up.  It just seems to be spending too long on my build board.

But..... it is coming together nicely.  I very pleased with how the black trim went on.  Very little issues besides one piece that shredded in while smoothing it out and few wrinkles here and there (but most of us have some of those now  Smiley)

Wheel pants are up next along with attaching the front cowl.
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OZPAF
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« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2019, 09:19:32 PM »

Very striking Brian - that black is very err Black Smiley
Nice covering.

John
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« Reply #45 on: March 29, 2019, 04:35:40 AM »

Nice machine - have you seen 'The Rocketeer' ?
(Someone has probably already mentioned this along the way - but a good GB film)
cheers
Tim
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Tim
bgrove
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« Reply #46 on: April 01, 2019, 02:06:11 PM »

Tim, yes.  Rocketeer is the ultimate Gee Bee movie  Smiley

Wheel pant trim almost completed last night  Smiley  The main trim is done, I just have to trim the wheel openings and 'tighten' things up.  I'm pleased with the supplied pattern in the kit - it worked well.  I also mounted the fuselage front section to the main fuselage.

Next up is to do some 're-bending' of the landing gear so I can use it to mount to the interior balsa sheeting on the insides of the pants (that's what caused the deformation on the side - I used plastic glue and melted the pvc).
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bgrove
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« Reply #47 on: April 03, 2019, 03:04:01 PM »

I mounting the landing gear into the wing and cut/bent the wire to mount inside the wheel pant.  Also glued the engine photo and hub block into the front cowl.
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #48 on: April 03, 2019, 03:32:17 PM »

This is looking great. Lovely job on the black trim tissue.
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bgrove
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« Reply #49 on: April 04, 2019, 02:48:15 PM »

Last night when I got home from work I finally put my pants on!!  ha   Smiley
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