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Author Topic: Keil Kraft Stinson Flying Station Wagon  (Read 3630 times)
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abl
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« on: January 22, 2019, 09:56:43 AM »

In the light of continuing uncertainty about whether I can get my DPC Pfalz to behave after having meddled with a perfectly good design (still awaiting a calm day to coincide with when I'm available so that I can trim the thing without it dashing itself to pieces on the walls, assuming that further structural surgery isn't required - I have a feeling that I'll have to take off the lower wings and put back some of the dihedral that I've removed), I thought it might be prudent to build a back-up model for use in Kit Scale at this Year's indoor F/F scale nationals (April 28th).

I suppose I should also admit that I'm doing this for a bet...

TheLurker has been observing my inclination to tinker (much tutting and shaking of heads at Lurker Industries) with anything that I build, and has wagered that I can't build something for kit scale without meddling with the design or otherwise doing anything that might get me penalty points.

The terms of the bet are that I should "Build a commercial kit exactly to the plan, using the materials supplied in the box; substitutions are only allowed if the material is unuseable, but tissue can be substituted if the supplied tissue is the wrong colour for the chosen colour scheme. Any other changes that are permitted by the kit scale rules are allowed."

If I succeed then Lurk will have to fish out his wallet and buy me a pint (I'll have the press standing by), but in the event that the challenge is judged to have been a failure I shall have to drink half a pint of weak, fizzy lager, served warm <ugh!>.

After some discussion, it was agreed that Jack Plane should be appointed as the judge/invigilator; either I or TheLurker can ask for a ruling about any wriggle room in the rules or complain about any (alleged) infringement, but Jack Plane's word is law.

I'll also make a note of the time spent at the building board; one of my mates claims to be able to build one of these in a couple of weeks, with an average active modelling time of about 3 to 3 1/2 hours a day.

I wanted to do the Stinson because (back in the olden days) I've built most of the others in the range that I fancy having a go at, and there are a couple of KK Stinsons in the local club which fly really well.

A brief word about VMC's laser-cut rendition of Kiel Kraft's original print-wood version (see picture #1); the wire supplied is about 0.91mm (20 SWG, which is what was supplied in the original kits), the wood is supplied in three sheets and looks to be possibly very, very slightly undersize - this might be how it was produced in the first place, of course, or it might be a consequence of laser-cutting down the middle of the printed line (I always used to cut to the outside of the line in the olden days and that seemed to work OK). I don't think it'll be an issue though.

The wood desities are:
 1/16" formers: 8.0 lb/cu ft (a little heavy)
 1/16" stripwood sheet A: 9.0 lb/cu ft (OK)
 1/16" stripwood sheet B: 16.0 lb/cu ft (Very heavy. Usually what KK supplied in the original kits, if we're being honest. I class this as "unuseable" and plan to substitute relevant strip from stock).

The usual white tissue is supplied, I'm doing a red Stinson so the kit tissue will be consigned to the spares bin.

There are a few inconsistencies with the plan, for instance the right wing is a tad (0.5-0.7mm) longer than the left wing, but this isn't unusual with plans of that era (mid 1950s) and I think that, given the age of the thing, small errors like that are to be expected. The span works out as 19.8".

Photo #2 shows the first fuselage side drying (surely one of the most gratifying sights...?), total time spent so far is 2:15. I'll add the other side this afternoon/evening when this one has dried sufficiently, so I should then be on track.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Keil Kraft Stinson Flying Station Wagon
Keil Kraft Stinson Flying Station Wagon
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TheLurker
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« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2019, 10:29:26 AM »

Big Lurker is watching you. Smiley
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2019, 10:32:18 AM »


...but Jack Plane's word is law.


Excellent!  Grin
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SP250
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« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2019, 11:40:23 AM »

Er - the contest director is watching too......................
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FreeFlightModeller
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« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2019, 12:39:28 PM »

Just yer average Aeromodeller watching here  Smiley
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Snaky Stringer
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« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2019, 12:47:47 PM »

I got a certain distance with this one ( from plan in plan gallery) but had to abandon ship when I discovered both fuselage sides were not identical after I had done quite a bit of work on formers and such. I may start afresh because I like Stinsons and have a nice photo of a dark red one. Best of luck. I still need to finish my Comet Stinson as well. Probably need to strip and re-cover.
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abl
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« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2019, 02:07:36 PM »

Er - the contest director is watching too......................

My conscience is completely clear. No crimes or other rule infringements have been committed [Note 1].

:-)

A.

Notes
1. So far...
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TheLurker
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« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2019, 02:25:11 PM »

My conscience is completely clear. No crimes or other rule infringements have been committed [Note 1].

No other rule infringements eh?  This suggests you have already broken at least one, so which have you broken?

Welcome to the Panopticon.  Smiley
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« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2019, 02:28:34 PM »

I have the original kit/ plan, so will report any deviations I see directly to the head of works at Lurker industries...  Cheesy Cheesy

We are watching!  Wink

Andrew
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2019, 03:15:26 PM »

Does the plan include a 'rod for your own back'...?  Smiley
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« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2019, 03:20:06 PM »

It certainly looks that way!
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Dan Snow
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« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2019, 04:10:24 PM »

Just another average modeler watching this with interest!!  Grin

This thread makes me realize that being likely the only Rubber Powered Scale modeler within a good 100 mile radius migiht have at least one advantage! No one looking too closely at my my meager efforts!!
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« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2019, 04:24:34 PM »

Looking forward to seeing this come together! One of the advantages of this model is that if you fly it outdoors, at Barkston say, you'll be able to set up your deckchair behind the tail fin and use it as a windbreak. (Maybe make it detachable though so you can pack it flat in your car boot.)
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abl
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« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2019, 04:42:16 PM »

I have the original kit/ plan, so will report any deviations I see directly to the head of works at Lurker industries...  Cheesy Cheesy

We are watching!  Wink

Andrew

There's a Tunnock's Teacake in it for you if you can see your way clear to not reporting any deviations; I had to buy several boxes because of the very thin clear plastic sheet on the front.  Smiley

A.
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abl
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« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2019, 04:44:10 PM »

My conscience is completely clear. No crimes or other rule infringements have been committed [Note 1].

No other rule infringements eh?  This suggests you have already broken at least one, so which have you broken?

Welcome to the Panopticon.  Smiley

Oh, come, come, my dear chap. That's like asking a magician how he's done the trick! Not that I have done any tricks, I hasten to add. But then, I would say that, wouldn't I?

A.
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abl
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« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2019, 04:47:03 PM »

Looking forward to seeing this come together! One of the advantages of this model is that if you fly it outdoors, at Barkston say, you'll be able to set up your deckchair behind the tail fin and use it as a windbreak. (Maybe make it detachable though so you can pack it flat in your car boot.)

It has got an enormous fin, but that's part of the charm.  Smiley

A.

P.S. Finished the second fuselage side, time spent so far is 3 hrs 45 min.
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« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2019, 05:09:34 PM »

I have the original kit/ plan, so will report any deviations I see directly to the head of works at Lurker industries...  Cheesy Cheesy

We are watching!  Wink

Andrew

There's a Tunnock's Teacake in it for you if you can see your way clear to not reporting any deviations; I had to buy several boxes because of the very thin clear plastic sheet on the front.  Smiley

A.

I am easily bought, so yes ok.  I will expect delivery of said unsequential tea cake, unmarked in a brown paper envelope on the park bench outside the hall at the nats.  As you hand it over you must say “the flowers are blooming early in Moscow this year” otherwise the whole deal is off...

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abl
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« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2019, 12:06:23 PM »

<snip>
...I will expect delivery of said unsequential tea cake, unmarked in a brown paper envelope on the park bench outside the hall at the nats.  As you hand it over you must say “the flowers are blooming early in Moscow this year” otherwise the whole deal is off...

I don't think I've got much option at this point, so it's a deal.  Smiley

Meanwhile, onwards and upwards; total workbench time so far = 6 hrs 30 min.

Photo #1 shows two fuselage sides after drying overnight, #2 shows them after clean-up of glue flash and a light sanding; for reference, they weigh 1.25 grams.

Photo #3 shows the formers which have a few minor shortcomings (top and bottom former widths vary slightly, stringer slots are all over the place, need to make a new F10, etc.), looking at Outerzone all these issues are present on the original printwood and are straightforward to fix. Par for the course with a kit this old, I suppose.

The top view of the fuselage shows some fairly sharp bends which you're not going to get by following the instructions, which recommend glueing the tailpost together, "clipping F2 in place" (the only full-depth former) and then inserting the intervening formers in pairs where possible. This means that some of the formers might require adjustment/replacement and in any case I don't like that process because a) it has an air of "...and then a miracle happens..." about it, and b) every time I've tried it the fuselage has gone banana-shaped.

So, given that the most important bit of the fuselage is the parallel section where the wing goes, because any misalignment here will cause problems with the wing positioning, I made a couple of jig formers as shown that can be taped in place and moved around as formers are added (photos #4, #5), and built the parallel centre section first.

Photo #6 shows the completed fuselage centre, and as far as I can tell it's square in all three axes so I've left the (oudourless) CA to harden off for an hour or so. I don't like using the stuff but in this case it obviously makes sense.

The plan this evening is to add the rest of the formers, I'll try and use all the originals but it's possible that some slightly wider ones will have to be made for the aft fuselage. I'll also look at adding a few extra gussets for that areas that look a little over-stressed
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Keil Kraft Stinson Flying Station Wagon
Re: Keil Kraft Stinson Flying Station Wagon
Re: Keil Kraft Stinson Flying Station Wagon
Re: Keil Kraft Stinson Flying Station Wagon
Re: Keil Kraft Stinson Flying Station Wagon
Re: Keil Kraft Stinson Flying Station Wagon
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TheLurker
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« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2019, 12:33:29 PM »

I have the original kit/ plan, so will report any deviations I see directly to the head of works at Lurker industries...  Cheesy Cheesy

We are watching!  Wink

Andrew

There's a Tunnock's Teacake in it for you if you can see your way clear to not reporting any deviations; I had to buy several boxes because of the very thin clear plastic sheet on the front.  Smiley

A.

I am easily bought, so yes ok.  I will expect delivery of said unsequential tea cake, unmarked in a brown paper envelope on the park bench outside the hall at the nats.  As you hand it over you must say “the flowers are blooming early in Moscow this year” otherwise the whole deal is off...


Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.  You two are new to the old cloak and dagger game aren't you?  Plain text?  Not even a Caesar Cipher?   Tsk, tsk, tsk.  Smiley
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TheLurker
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« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2019, 12:35:57 PM »

.... I made a couple of jig formers as shown that can be taped in place and moved around as formers are added...
Wish I'd thought of that for the M-10.
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abl
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« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2019, 12:40:50 PM »

Total workbench time: 9 hr 50 min

Photos #1 and #2 show the formers installed; as far as I can tell, the fuselage is still substantially straight. I did try and use the supplied rear formers (5, 8, 6 and 7) but they were just a little bit too narrow and would have made the fuselage top view look a bit tadpole-shaped, so I guesstimated some new formers (photo #3), Spraymounted them to some balsa, cut them out and they fitted with minimal fuss - very gratifying.

Photo #4 shows the nose side formers in place and the cut-out that I'm going to use for the nose plug; remarkably, the original plan doesn't have a removable noseblock, if the model stalls under power then "...the nose block should be carefully cut away from former 1 and a sliver of balsa approximately 1/16" thick inserted at the top between the nose block and former 1, the two then re-cemented together". Ah, those were the days.

Photo #5 show the general (for want of a better term) wonkiness of the formers. Some of them look a bit big when compared to the plan side view so some careful work with a Permagrit file will have to be done before the undercarriage wire is bent and fitted.

(incidentally, there was only one side former F2A on the parts sheet, so I made a copy. It's not on the printed parts sheet on Outerzone either...)

Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Keil Kraft Stinson Flying Station Wagon
Re: Keil Kraft Stinson Flying Station Wagon
Re: Keil Kraft Stinson Flying Station Wagon
Re: Keil Kraft Stinson Flying Station Wagon
Re: Keil Kraft Stinson Flying Station Wagon
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« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2019, 01:03:11 PM »

Very straight and tidy work abl  Grin I particularly like the idea, design and use of the construction formers. Looking forward to your progress  Cheesy

Rhys
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« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2019, 01:04:28 PM »

So far, so kosher!  Grin
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abl
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« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2019, 07:18:20 AM »

Total workbench time so far: 16 hrs

Most time this weekend has been spent correcting formers, and installing the main undercarriage and the stringers. The formers were generally quite easy to get to the right height (most of the obviously-wrong ones are a little too tall when compared to the plan side view) using a large Permagrit block. On the front cowling it looked as though former 2 might be a little bit low so the offcuts from the laser-cut wood sheet were glued back in place so the the could be sanded odd when dry (photo #1).

The undercarriage (photos #2 and #3) took a couple of goes because the pattern for the wire is about half a wire-width too wide. I elected to use a couple of thick (1/8") hard balsa gussets to stop the undercarriage being ripped out - I'm sure that Albert E Hatfull would have done something similar if he'd had access to epoxy.

The last of the stringers were finished about an hour ago (see photos #4 and #5), this was a lengthy process involving various needle files, steam from a kettle, slightly-thinned Titebond and many small strips of masking tape; most of the slots needed adjustment and I don't like using medium Cyano for small models because none of it evaporates away and if too much goes on, it's on there for good.

What I'm going to do for the plug-in noseblock is to add a couple of layers of 1/16" sheet on the front of F1 and then a noseblock that plugs into it so that the under-cowl air scoop doesn't have to be disturbed when the noseblock comes off.

There are some small fuselage details to add (motor peg and wing strut mounts, tailwheel wire, noseblock stuff as above) and then after some more attention from the sanding block it'll be declared officially finished and we can have the ceremonial weighings...
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Keil Kraft Stinson Flying Station Wagon
Re: Keil Kraft Stinson Flying Station Wagon
Re: Keil Kraft Stinson Flying Station Wagon
Re: Keil Kraft Stinson Flying Station Wagon
Re: Keil Kraft Stinson Flying Station Wagon
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« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2019, 07:58:56 AM »

light and neat looking structure abl.

John
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