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Author Topic: Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter from Midkiff Plans for FAC WWI Combat  (Read 4389 times)
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MKelly
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« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2019, 10:43:04 PM »

Thanks guys - I'm enjoying the woodwork.

John, Mike laid out the side stringers pretty much just like the real aircraft did, and it does do a nice job of transitioning from the round cowl to the slab sides aft of the forward cockpit.  The real one had some near-vertical braces (formers?) between the stringers that show through the fabric in most pictures - I'm debating whether to try to emulate them.

Scot, I've been using the glue-stick trick when sanding formers and pairs of ribs - not sure why I didn't think of it for the rib stack here.  It works well - I usually just put a dot of glue stick top and bottom (or fore and aft), then use a knife to pop the pieces apart after sanding.

Not much photo-worthy accomplished today - notched the LE and TE stock for the ribs and sliced off some semi-stout 1/16" square stringers for the spars.  I'm going with the same size LE and TE stock Mike spec'd for the larger scale, so there's a bit of meat available in both pieces to notch for the ribs.

Mike
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MKelly
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« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2019, 10:28:29 PM »

Enjoyed getting back to the Strutter after a nice weekend of flying and family time.  After notching the LE and TE for the ribs and slicing off some spar stock I pinned things down and framed up the top wing.  Once this dries overnight I'll put in the shear webs, top spar and TE center framing.

Mike
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Re: Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter from Midkiff Plans for FAC WWI Combat
Re: Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter from Midkiff Plans for FAC WWI Combat
Re: Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter from Midkiff Plans for FAC WWI Combat
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steveneill
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« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2019, 10:22:29 AM »

Love the work you are doing on this build. Watching.
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MKelly
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« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2019, 09:55:54 PM »

Thanks Steve.  I've been following your Breda build on Facebook and now here - it's looking very nice.  Hope to see you with it at WESTFAC this fall.

Mike
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steveneill
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« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2019, 01:08:26 AM »

Thanks Mike!
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OZPAF
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« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2019, 01:22:38 AM »

Your LE and TE notching jig looks neat Mike. Did you have a depth stop on the saw - assuming it was a razor saw that you used. I have used the old hacksaw blade idea for notching ribs and it would have worked well in your jig as well. One blade is 1/32 - 2 for 1/16 etc. The trick in using them is to pull the blades against the teeth gently and not to use them in the correct saw direction.

Filing all these good ideas away in the brain box Smiley

John
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MKelly
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« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2019, 02:55:40 PM »

John, I used a homemade notching tool to make the slots - just a piece of 1/32" ply with sandpaper on one edge and a balsa depth stop on one side.  You can see it next to the LE/TE stack in the first pic on post #26.  Using a saw blade as you suggest might make for a quicker cut - the notcher takes a bit of back and forth to get down to the desired depth.

Top wing is assembled.  I ran the strut braces from the rear spar all the way forward and added some small gussets between the spar and ribs at the brace locations, probably overkill but it makes me feel better.  I put 1/32" shear webs in the inner two bays on the main spar.  I also boxed the inner bay at the aft spar to provide a support for the skylight glazing, and added a 1/32" shear web to the next bay to keep things strong between the cabane struts.  Given the "W" cabane structure this is probably all unnecessary, and I'll only have myself to thank when the model comes out heavy...

I'll cut the wing panels apart at the center ribs and sand in the dihedral bevel after the LE and TE have been shaped and the wing sanded.  The center ribs are firm 3/32" sheet, so there should be plenty of meat there for the bevel.

Cheers,

Mike
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter from Midkiff Plans for FAC WWI Combat
Re: Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter from Midkiff Plans for FAC WWI Combat
Re: Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter from Midkiff Plans for FAC WWI Combat
Re: Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter from Midkiff Plans for FAC WWI Combat
Re: Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter from Midkiff Plans for FAC WWI Combat
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MKelly
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« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2019, 04:08:54 PM »

Bottom wing is assembled.  Top spar isn't glued in the center section, I'll do that after sanding the wings and setting the dihedral.  I boxed in the area under the interplane strut mounts and glued some blocks on top the box to hold the struts and rigging.  Blocks will be sanded flush with the wing upper surface.  The box will let me open the covering on the underside of the wing for rigging or repairs if necessary.

Top wing has been rough sanded - still need to finish shaping the leading edge.  Top wing is right at 6 grams at present.

Mike
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Re: Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter from Midkiff Plans for FAC WWI Combat
Re: Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter from Midkiff Plans for FAC WWI Combat
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fred
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« Reply #33 on: May 01, 2019, 01:09:39 PM »

Clean/precise woodworking in there.
Was surprised that the trailing edges are 'uncut'  so far.   
Shaping Ledges is tricky enough..I would end up ruining the ribs trying to shape those Trailing edges. 
Please photo your technique if you could ?  so I can learn 'how to'
 thanks
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MKelly
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« Reply #34 on: May 01, 2019, 05:26:05 PM »

Thanks Fred.  To shape the wing I roughly hand-carve the LE and TE to about the right bevel, then use a sanding bar (which is just a 1/4" thick scrap of wood about 1-1/2" wide by 8" long with 220 grit glued to one side and 400 grit glued to the other) to bring it down flush with the ribs.  As you can see in the picture I put the wing at the edge of the workbench, hold it down by both the edge and the spar with my left hand and sand along the edge with my right keeping the bar at a diagonal along the edge.  When the bar touches ribs you'll get a distinct scraping sound which tells you to stop, check if you've sanded the edge flush with the ribs, and if not to adjust your sanding angle so you don't flat-spot the ribs.  Once you've done it once or twice it becomes a pretty straightforward process.  You can also put masking tape over the ribs to protect them - this time I got lazy and didn't use the tape.

I think I got this technique from ModelAce out of his Ki-61 or P-51 build threads - it works well for me.

Top and bottom wing are sanded up and pretty much ready to cut the strut notches and set the dihedral.

Mike
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter from Midkiff Plans for FAC WWI Combat
Re: Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter from Midkiff Plans for FAC WWI Combat
Re: Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter from Midkiff Plans for FAC WWI Combat
Re: Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter from Midkiff Plans for FAC WWI Combat
Re: Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter from Midkiff Plans for FAC WWI Combat
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OZPAF
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« Reply #35 on: May 01, 2019, 06:00:09 PM »

I have used the same technique and it works well - especially with masking tape on the ribs. I like this general approach of building the wing in a single unit and then separating for the dihedral. I think it is a much better approach.
That's quick progress Mike.

John
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ironmike
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« Reply #36 on: May 06, 2019, 07:06:45 PM »

Well I figgered that I would piggy back on Mike K's great build on the 1/2 strutter.
Dragging out an old Camel 3 view Ive studied since I've lived up north, I whipped up
some laser cuts. Coincidentally this 3 view is from the same 70's article that was the
genesis for his 1/2 strutter. As I recall "The Sopwith Zoo" was the title.
I wanted a rugged, simple WW1 subject with wing area and simple struts, rigging and landing gear.
So far here we are:
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dputt7
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« Reply #37 on: May 06, 2019, 08:45:03 PM »

  Yes that was a great series of drawings, I built a Sopwith Dolphin from the same article. They did a Nieuport  series as well.
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MKelly
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« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2019, 10:22:00 AM »

Looks very nice Mike - appears to be electric power?  Do it up as a 2.F1 in colors from the HMS Furious' Tondern raid and you can fly it off the "carrier" at WESTFAC (http://www.tondernraid.com/tonder.htm).  There's a suitably grimy and subdued scheme for one of the Tondern Camels here:  https://www.scalemodellingnow.com/hnaircraftkit-wingnut-wings-sopwith-2f1-ships-camel

Progress on the Strutter has been slow as we wrapped up our Cub Scout year with the spring camping trip last weekend.  Spent a bit of time looking at the rigging, then added braces and tissue anchors to the wings for the aileron cables and control arms.  I glued in rolled paper tubes where the aileron cables go through the wings to connect the upper and lower ailerons.  Wings are ready to cut apart and set the dihedral.

Mike
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ironmike
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« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2019, 11:19:11 AM »

Thanks Mike
Yea the tedium of putting in place all of the rigging points
has slowed me down also. I think Im going to do the RNAS #10 sqd
"C" flight that had the red and white stripes and the
checkerboard motif on the wheels. This is where it gets fun.
What scheme choice is yours?
I wanted a simple model, compact with tons of wing area
to quickly charge and fly.
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fred
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« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2019, 03:47:05 PM »

Thanks Fred.  To shape the wing I roughly hand-carve the LE and TE to about the right bevel, then use a sanding bar (which is just a 1/4" thick scrap of wood about 1-1/2" wide by 8" long with 220 grit glued to one side and 400 grit glued to the other) to bring it down flush with the ribs.  As you can see in the picture I put the wing at the edge of the workbench, hold it down by both the edge and the spar with my left hand and sand along the edge with my right keeping the bar at a diagonal along the edge.  When the bar touches ribs you'll get a distinct scraping sound which tells you to stop, check if you've sanded the edge flush with the ribs, and if not to adjust your sanding angle so you don't flat-spot the ribs.  Once you've done it once or twice it becomes a pretty straightforward process.  You can also put masking tape over the ribs to protect them - this time I got lazy and didn't use the tape.

I think I got this technique from ModelAce out of his Ki-61 or P-51 build threads - it works well for me.

Top and bottom wing are sanded up and pretty much ready to cut the strut notches and set the dihedral.

Mike


Thank you for the explanation.. That's pretty well the method I use.
Embarrassingly  tho, I despite masking tape protection on the rib end,  have too often inadvertently  'hit' the ribs with my sanding stick. 
 A 1/32 rib doesn't suffer abuse gladly. Subsequently requiring a lot of time / patience and templates to laminate on rib repairs..  then reshape the airfoil  accurately.
Was hoping there was a previously overlooked solution.
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fred
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« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2019, 03:52:26 PM »

I wanted a simple model, compact with tons of wing area
to quickly charge and fly.

I've found that 2 or 3mm flat sheet Depron  profile models does that.  Surprisingly well.
Low on realism certainly..but building AND flying ...Same day ...can be genuinely liberating    Wink
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« Reply #42 on: May 10, 2019, 06:00:46 AM »

Fred do you use the edge of your building table to help keep the angle pretty constant? Witness stripes on the balsa where it needs sanding, also help.

John
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ironmike
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« Reply #43 on: May 11, 2019, 10:34:21 AM »

Thinking thru a method to achieve a PC-10 look using tissue,
I chose to use white Easy Built domestic along with the Acad color pallet.

I printed off a number of small samples and decided that this
looked close enough. I printed 6 sheets of 81/1 x 11 and here
is what got covered. Im reasonably happy.
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billdennis747
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« Reply #44 on: May 11, 2019, 10:38:10 AM »

It looks spot on to me Mike
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MKelly
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« Reply #45 on: June 29, 2019, 10:33:42 PM »

At my suggestion Ratz has pulled the Spitfire content into it's own build thread.  Now that the Spitfire is complete I'll be getting back to the Strutter, with perhaps a jetcat on the side...

Thanks Ratz for cleaning up my mess...

I mentioned in an earlier post that Kip Aero (https://www.kipaero.com/) is selling reproduction Sopwith aircraft and is currently building a Strutter.  They've moved the aircraft to a Dallas-area airfield and posted a nice time-lapse of rigging the tail and wings onto the fuselage onto Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/KipAero/videos/2316400541753983/?__tn__=%2Cd%2CP-R&eid=ARCrUlWRUETlY2JtA3JTV5T4-mSAMvV-dr0R3tejCu0fuwd_y9mHKolkVvmu8l5zRo5hx26N2Fi3HFBk 

Their Facebook page has a wealth of Strutter construction photos showing all manner of details of the structure.  They advertise that they build to original Sopwith prints - how close their aircraft are to the originals I can't say, but looking through their build certainly gets me pumped up to continue mine.

Cheers,

Mike
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