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Author Topic: Burdov Pirate Squared P-30  (Read 1163 times)
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VictorY
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« on: April 21, 2019, 05:08:00 AM »

Evidently the plane was updated in 2016 and renamed Pirate2 (squared), possibly a reference to the more squared off wing tips. My first P-30, and what will be my first plane with a DT. Smiley
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Burdov Pirate Squared P-30
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flydean1
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« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2019, 01:52:26 PM »

Looks good.  Keep sending pics of the build, and report on flying.
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VictorY
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« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2019, 02:12:54 PM »

A few things I've noticed about the kit so far. Plans are nice but there are a few details that I can't work out from the provided views and instructions with my limited experience in the class and freeflight in general. Fiberglass parts seem well made. The horizontal stab trailing edge parts don't really match the plans though so I had to improvise with rib spacing, and if sanded to the suggested profile would be extremely fragile. I added a bit of carbon tape to stiffen it up. I'd like to do the same thing to the wing if I build another but skipped on that step this time due to my eagerness to join the panels and get it covered.
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Re: Burdov Pirate Squared P-30
« Last Edit: April 21, 2019, 03:37:11 PM by VictorY » Logged
VictorY
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« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2019, 03:36:03 PM »

The wing after final sanding, and ready to cover, is 10.43g. Stab is 2.61g but .5g of that is the carbon and glue on the trailing edge. So I'm guessing that giving the carbon treatment to the TE of the wing should add about 1.5 grams. The carbon lamination also allows you to take any warps out of the TE.
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VictorY
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« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2019, 11:13:36 PM »

After a couple of attempts at covering, the stab looks acceptable. It has some wrinkles but appears to be somewhat true and stable. Easy Built Lite tissue sprayed with clear acrylic. Now 4.36g
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Re: Burdov Pirate Squared P-30
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flydean1
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« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2019, 10:40:04 PM »

The tissue color looks like it will blend right in with the sky.
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VictorY
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« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2019, 01:36:47 AM »

Depends on sunlight, angle and sky color. Smiley It lights up real good under some conditions and blends in perfectly in others. The wing is all white so it will disappear in the clouds but be easy to spot against the blue sky. Vertical stab will be either white or an ugly bright green that I have.

She could fly real soon now but I need to get or make a timer and figure out a stuffer stick of some kind. I saw one made from alum angle somewhere.
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billdennis747
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« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2019, 03:49:12 AM »

The wing is all white so it will disappear in the clouds but be easy to spot against the blue sky.
Oh no it won´t! Next time, black, and fluorescent pink tips (and grass is green)!
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VictorY
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« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2019, 04:48:22 AM »

I'm new to freeflight but I've been flying for 30 years. I love transparent white for visibility on my gliders, and usually have a darker blue along with it, invasion stripes style. Opaque white is horrible because it turns grey in shadow, but trans white is like a skylight against the blue sky, at least for my eyes.

What else do I need for the forward stab mount? Do the rubber bands provide a forward stop/pivot point for the stab during DT, or do I glue a small piece of dowel for good measure?

Thanks!
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Re: Burdov Pirate Squared P-30
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« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2019, 10:15:54 AM »

Rubber bands will work but I prefer a stop because it makes rigging the stab to the model a lot easier (the stop holds the stab where it should be while you stretch the rubber bands to the pegs).

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VictorY
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« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2019, 08:25:52 PM »

Bench flying!!!
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VictorY
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« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2019, 04:46:31 AM »

I ran across a weird phenomenon when experimenting with my covering. I wasn't really happy with the acrylic lacquer as it was sagging really bad when moving the plane into a more humid environment. For the hell of it, I sprayed some 90% isopropyl on it to see what would happen and ended up with a marbled/tie-dye look that is much better when the humidity changes. But it also seems like the strength of the laqcuer is gone. I guess I need to break down and get some real dope. Or is there something better? I'm open to any suggestions in regards to specific tissue type and dope/sealer for this class.

Thanks

A money shot for y'all!
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Re: Burdov Pirate Squared P-30
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flydean1
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« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2019, 08:28:35 AM »

That is a really slim fuselage.  What is the diameter?

I too had no luck with lacquer.  Maybe others have.  Dope of choice is Randolphs' Non-tautening nitrate well thinned.  25% dope, 75% thinner.  Second choice not far behind is Sig Lite-cote, also thinned but only to 50%.  I get it from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty.   You generally have to buy a lot to get shipment of Randolphs.  Sig ships quarts.  Buy twice as much thinner as dope.  I use Ace Hardware lacquer thinner to clean brushes, but not to thin the dope.  After a thorough cleaning in thinner, I wash the brushes in warm soapy water, hot water rinse, and then air-dry.  I have dope brushes that are 30+ years old and still have their bristles!  Wish I  could say the same for mine!!! Grin
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calgoddard
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« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2019, 10:53:10 AM »

VictorY -

Nice build so far.  I have the earlier version of the Pirate and have flown it successfully for many years.

You will love the GizmoGeezer (GG) prop assembly as it provides for precise thrust line adjustments and reliable free-wheeling of the prop.  It also eliminates any need to braid rubber motors.  However I think the hook-to-peg distance in the Pirate is close to the 19-inch length of a typical unbraided 6 x 1/8-inch 9.8 gram P-30 rubber motor. So braiding of the rubber would probably not be needed even if you did not use a GG prop assembly.

Did you set the CG per the plan?  If the plan doesn’t show an optimum location for the CG, try 60%.  It looks like your wing pylon is already glued in place.  The normal practice is to assemble the plane, install a rubber motor of the correct size, and the move the wing pylon forward or back, taping it in place, until the CG is then in the desired location.  Then you glue the wing pylon in place. If the wing pylon was already coupled to the fuselage as they were packaged in the kit, then you will have to add weight to the nose or tail to adjust the location of the CG. I think that the fuselage of the Pirate is made of fiberglass and that the same is true of the wing pylon.
 
Trim by first adjusting the decalage to get a nice level glide.  Then progress with powered flights having very low turns at first (e.g. 50-100) and then gradually increasing turns in a succession of flights.  Make one adjustment after each flight, if necessary.  As to the the powered portion of the flight, optimum trim is mostly achieved through thrust line adjustments.  Start with about 4 degrees down and about 2 degrees of right thrust.  The front end of the Pirate fuselage may already be beveled such that a typical amount of down and right thrust are already dialed in.  In that case, only tiny thrust line adjustments off the nominal center line of the GG prop assembly will be necessary.

I noticed that your fin has the convex side (of the airfoil) on the right.  This will induce a left turn in the glide.   With models that have a free-wheeling prop I normally trim for a right-right flight pattern because I understand that the free-wheeling prop induces a right turn in the glide. I use stab tilt to control the size of the right circle in the glide descent.  You may want to detach the fin and re-glue it to the tail boom with the convex side on the left.

One final word, do install a DT or else your Pirate will soon fly OOS.  This subject has been covered extensively on the HPA website.  A simple viscous timer button on the wing pylon connected to the TE of the stab with a line with a loop (slipped over the arm of the timer button) and a small coil spring will suffice.  Keep us posted.
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Tmat
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« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2019, 01:02:27 PM »

My Pirate flies Right/Left with the fin as designed. And it flies very nicely Right/Left. I'd leave the fin as is.

Tmat
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VictorY
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« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2019, 03:12:56 PM »

That is a really slim fuselage.  What is the diameter?

I too had no luck with lacquer.  Maybe others have.  Dope of choice is Randolphs' Non-tautening nitrate well thinned.  25% dope, 75% thinner.  Second choice not far behind is Sig Lite-cote, also thinned but only to 50%.  I get it from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty.   You generally have to buy a lot to get shipment of Randolphs.  Sig ships quarts.  Buy twice as much thinner as dope.  I use Ace Hardware lacquer thinner to clean brushes, but not to thin the dope.  After a thorough cleaning in thinner, I wash the brushes in warm soapy water, hot water rinse, and then air-dry.  I have dope brushes that are 30+ years old and still have their bristles!  Wish I  could say the same for mine!!! Grin

Thanks. I'll take the leap and get some dope.
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VictorY
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« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2019, 03:18:14 PM »



Did you set the CG per the plan?
 
I noticed that your fin has the convex side (of the airfoil) on the right.

One final word, do install a DT or else your Pirate will soon fly OOS.

I followed the plan's instructions on pylon placement which are similar to your suggestion.

Fin is per plan. They even provide a mirror image of the fin layout so you can build it flat side down. Flight pattern is right/left.

Just waiting on the timer. Smiley
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Re: Burdov Pirate Squared P-30
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VictorY
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« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2019, 03:29:10 PM »

I was fooling with making a torque meter last night. This one seems to work pretty well but the wire may be too heavy for the P-30 motors. It takes quite an effort with my finger tips get up to 5 on the scale. I'm guessing motors will start breaking around 2.
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DerekMc
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« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2019, 03:47:05 PM »

I was fooling with making a torque meter last night. This one seems to work pretty well but the wire may be too heavy for the P-30 motors. It takes quite an effort with my finger tips get up to 5 on the scale. I'm guessing motors will start breaking around 2.

0- 12-15 in/oz is what you want for P30.  I can measure the piano wire size on mine after work if you would like.
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VictorY
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« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2019, 03:48:28 PM »

I was fooling with making a torque meter last night. This one seems to work pretty well but the wire may be too heavy for the P-30 motors. It takes quite an effort with my finger tips get up to 5 on the scale. I'm guessing motors will start breaking around 2.

0- 12-15 in/oz is what you want for P30.  I can measure the piano wire size on mine after work if you would like.

Thanks. I believe the wire I have now is 3/64 or 1mm.
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VictorY
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« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2019, 03:49:12 PM »

That is a really slim fuselage.  What is the diameter?

OD at the peg is 15mm and 19mm at the nose block.
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« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2019, 04:04:08 PM »

Here is a nice resource with an explanation on how to calibrate a torque meter using engineering formulas. Check it out if you would like.

http://www.gryffinaero.com/models/ffpages/tools/torque/torquetech.html
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Derek
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« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2019, 04:06:02 PM »

Can this Burdov Pirate be acquired from Europe somewhere? What does the Burdov referenced here mean?
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« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2019, 04:14:55 PM »

Can this Burdov Pirate be acquired from Europe somewhere? What does the Burdov referenced here mean?

Originally it was a kit offered by Starlink Models in partnership with Andrey Burdov.  The Starlink website lists it as 'coming soon.'  I'm not sure what the current availability is.

http://www.starlink-flitetech.com/p-30
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VictorY
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« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2019, 04:29:14 PM »

Can this Burdov Pirate be acquired from Europe somewhere? What does the Burdov referenced here mean?

Originally it was a kit offered by Starlink Models in partnership with Andrey Burdov.  The Starlink website lists it as 'coming soon.'  I'm not sure what the current availability is.

http://www.starlink-flitetech.com/p-30

Starlink is where I purchased mine. Didn't even know there was a new version out until I opened up the plans.
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