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Author Topic: 8" F-16 CatJet Build  (Read 1685 times)
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tross
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« on: May 29, 2019, 10:40:46 AM »

I have some pictures of the 8" F-16 catjet I built this past Friday.
Sunday (race day) was a good day to fly, so there's some video.
The wood selection is pretty much the same, light weight C grain for the wings.
Light weight flexible wood for the control surfaces and the canopy.

Some flights over 30 seconds.  Shocked
Crashing on the house, and into trees as usual. Cool
I wouldn't have it any other way. Cheesy

A short and boring video of the cutter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qff5EWgHX7U

Flights.
Small plane, so full screen recommended...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U4QEa8BTiY

AUW 4.15 grams.
More pics coming.

Tony
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
8" F-16 CatJet Build
8" F-16 CatJet Build
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Instructions: Step One...Assemble the pile of sticks shown in pic "A" to look like the model airplane shown in pic "B"........
FLYACE1946
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« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2019, 12:32:09 PM »

Thanks Tony for showing these pictures. Are you launching the F-16 with a single loop of 1/8 rubber?
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tross
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« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2019, 12:40:08 PM »

You're welcome FLYACE1946.

Most of the initial trim flights are very slight pulls on 1/8".
A coordinated roll out into the wind and glide.
Less walking, more trimming this way.

I slowly add power and then start to angle up.
In the end, 2 loops of 1/8" about 9" long.

Tony
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Instructions: Step One...Assemble the pile of sticks shown in pic "A" to look like the model airplane shown in pic "B"........
tom arnold
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« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2019, 01:28:40 PM »

Tony, that little F-16 is a minor marvel for those of us who have tried cat jets. It has no dihedral and mid wing but retains that big vertical tail which you'd think would all work against it. Then your transitions are delightful, rolling out with no loss of altitude right at the end of the launch energy. How do you set up your trim on the control surfaces? do you use wingtip weights? Do you launch with wings level, 45 degrees, or 90 degrees to the ground? But most of all, how do you get that smooth transition? Many thanks in advance from a lot of frustrated jet jocks.
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tross
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« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2019, 02:53:38 PM »

Hi Tom,
I hope you are well and thank you. Smiley
The little 8" is my personal favorite.
It uses very little wood and flies well for sure.

I'll take some pictures of the model tonight so we can look at it.
Please keep your feedback coming.

For now I can say I'm not using any tip weight.
There is a very slight amount of dihedral.
It depends on the wind speed as to how I'm launching.
I'll keep that discussion open so we can discuss it further.

If I have or would consider a main objective it would be a very long coordinated roll out and turn.
I'm trimming for a roll, keeping the nose down.
Low launch and at full power.
I'm 100 feet from the house for the clip that is a more gentle transition.
I've hit the house during that phase of trimming.
So a very slight incidence on the tail is required.
Once I have that in say 3 mph head wind I can start to move up.
The breeze at the top helps the high launch transition stick.
I'm flying a weather vane.


Tony
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Instructions: Step One...Assemble the pile of sticks shown in pic "A" to look like the model airplane shown in pic "B"........
Don McLellan
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« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2019, 04:56:16 PM »

Hi Tony,

I like the video of the craft cutter.   Grin Grin Grin  How thick is the wood, and which blade are you using in your craft cutter?

Don
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tross
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« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2019, 09:31:14 PM »

Hello Don,
You're just being nice.
The blade I'm using here is the Silhouette premium.
The wood is shaved from balsa block to .06" and  finished using an orbital 220 grit w/vacuum set up to .05"
between 2 pieces of 16 gauge stainless sheet.
The cut is .04" deep, leaving the .01" to hold it all together.
I stole that from you, but it's been so long it's now my idea..... Grin Smiley Cheesy Grin Roll Eyes

Close up pictures are attached below.
I don't think this is anything new, but might help someone with set up.

Pic 1 the stab is flat.

Pic 2 from the front you may notice the dihedral is very slight, but is there.
     Also a very small amount of washout port wing.

Pic 3 from the back, the stab is a little blurry but you may notice a little stab tilt.
     Also the very small amount of left rudder.

4,5 and 6 are this installments build pictures.

I started with the fuselage.
The grain direction is hopefully on display.
The camber and wing incidence are builder's choice really.
They can be revised to fit flying preference.
The lower camber jets I have built have flown well.

Tony
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: 8" F-16 CatJet Build
Re: 8" F-16 CatJet Build
Re: 8" F-16 CatJet Build
Re: 8" F-16 CatJet Build
Re: 8" F-16 CatJet Build
Re: 8" F-16 CatJet Build
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Instructions: Step One...Assemble the pile of sticks shown in pic "A" to look like the model airplane shown in pic "B"........
FLYACE1946
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« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2019, 09:41:59 PM »

Tony the pictures sure do help. Again many thanks for taking the time to show us.
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Don McLellan
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« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2019, 09:42:25 PM »

Hi Tony,

No, no, everything I know about craft cutters came from you!   Grin

Beautiful work as per usual and a very interesting thread.

Don
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« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2019, 02:53:53 AM »

What a nice little beast Tony Smiley I couldn't see your flight - I'm currently having hassles with UTube but if it flies like your previous efforts - it would be impressive.

John
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tross
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« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2019, 10:28:55 AM »

Ah, so it's been long enough then Don. Grin

It's probably the browser John. Tongue
You can load one of the suggestion vids to the side there, and hit the back button, then the refresh a couple of times.
I hope you get to see it eventually.

Did you notice anything in the trim set up pictures Tom.
I agree that the trim settings are important.

Tony
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Instructions: Step One...Assemble the pile of sticks shown in pic "A" to look like the model airplane shown in pic "B"........
FLYACE1946
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« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2019, 01:28:03 PM »

 Tony I finally took out the two F-16 jet cats today and I was very pleased with the results. The one you built flew like crazy. The one I built shows promise but the slight bow in the fuselage seems to affect the flight duration. These two F-16's sure do weather vane. I sure do like how they fly. Mike Kelly and I were being entertained by two F-16's flying around from Lackland AFB this morning. They made two circuits over us and weren't taking too much time for each pass. Texas Air National Guard fwiw.

Oh BTW we will be taking a trip to a contest tomorrow so there might be some future flights recorded for this website.

Sure is fun to JETCAT...THANKS TO FAC for the opportunity to fly a jet
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OZPAF
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« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2019, 08:39:23 PM »

Well finally got to see the little beast flying. That is a lot of fun and what a great flying model. How do you hold the balsa down on the moving platen on your craft cutter?

Thanks for the tips re watching the video - it just played without any drama today.

John
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tross
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« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2019, 12:35:36 AM »

Hi John,
I'm glad it's working now. Smiley
I'm using Dritz Basting Spray. Temporary adhesive for sewing and quilting.
I little mist on the carrier and the wood stays put.

How were the flying conditions today FLYACE1964.
Is the model durable enough to take some hits?
I have to say, there wasn't much time to final trim the one I sent.
It probably needs your finishing touch. Cool

I was caught off guard by Tom's questions about the launch angle.
To be honest, I wasn't aware there was an issue.

I hope the video below helps clarify what I'm doing anyway.

If it isn't rolling enough, it will lose altitude at the top.
If it's rolling too much it will stall, but usually recovers.
I'm launching away from the wind but not 180°. More like 135°.

The direction, launch angle, and pull tension are all slightly adjusted during an outing.
The angle away from my body is just where it falls.
I'm not sure at that high launch angle it has much effect.
Launching upward is really the only way I've found to see what it's doing up there.

I'll get some build pictures of the wing next time.

This video shews the launch angle, flights in calm conditions,
and a couple of slow motion shots of the long roll out trim I am looking for.

https://youtu.be/FqVm_4b8EJ0

Tony
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Instructions: Step One...Assemble the pile of sticks shown in pic "A" to look like the model airplane shown in pic "B"........
Don McLellan
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« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2019, 02:11:13 AM »

.....shews.......    Grin Grin Grin Grin
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tross
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« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2019, 08:11:55 PM »

Check your email Don.
You should have it. Smiley

For the wing, I'm holding the parts together and lightly sanding the edges.
The edge between the front and back section gets a slight angle for camber.

The left and right wing are assembled,
then the two halves are glued together to complete the assembly.
This is where the slight dihedral shows up.

Fast forward to today and the model now has some color.
Some panel lines and markings will help it look better I hope. Smiley

Tony
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: 8" F-16 CatJet Build
Re: 8" F-16 CatJet Build
Re: 8" F-16 CatJet Build
Re: 8" F-16 CatJet Build
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Instructions: Step One...Assemble the pile of sticks shown in pic "A" to look like the model airplane shown in pic "B"........
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« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2019, 08:36:05 PM »

Thanks for that Tony! I'm a little surprised by your successful use of a downwind launch direction. I would have thought that would kill the climb but it obviously works well.

Happy flying.

John
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tross
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« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2019, 09:15:14 PM »

Hi John,
I suppose it does a little but it curls around quickly.
By the time it needs the help it's more toward then away.
A sort of long loop, roll, turn, ending up facing into the breeze without lifting the nose....thing. Grin Smiley Cheesy Grin
Even though that's my hat cam on the ground, the wind is over the camera and to me.
Tony
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Instructions: Step One...Assemble the pile of sticks shown in pic "A" to look like the model airplane shown in pic "B"........
FLYACE1946
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« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2019, 01:32:36 PM »

Hi John, Well Tony the Leading edge of the wing hit something so I have a problem to fix. The weather Saturday was pretty nice but it sure was HOT. I got sunburned thru my shirt. I had hoped for some video to show you something but the Skyray handled things better since I got it out of the box and I took second place in the Flying Horde Event. No big deal since we had just 3 flyers.
I'm glad it's working now. Smiley
I'm using Dritz Basting Spray. Temporary adhesive for sewing and quilting.
I little mist on the carrier and the wood stays put.

How were the flying conditions today FLYACE1964.
Is the model durable enough to take some hits?
I have to say, there wasn't much time to final trim the one I sent.
It probably needs your finishing touch. Cool

I was caught off guard by Tom's questions about the launch angle.
To be honest, I wasn't aware there was an issue.

I hope the video below helps clarify what I'm doing anyway.

If it isn't rolling enough, it will lose altitude at the top.
If it's rolling too much it will stall, but usually recovers.
I'm launching away from the wind but not 180°. More like 135°.

The direction, launch angle, and pull tension are all slightly adjusted during an outing.
The angle away from my body is just where it falls.
I'm not sure at that high launch angle it has much effect.
Launching upward is really the only way I've found to see what it's doing up there.

I'll get some build pictures of the wing next time.

This video shews the launch angle, flights in calm conditions,
and a couple of slow motion shots of the long roll out trim I am looking for.

https://youtu.be/FqVm_4b8EJ0

Tony
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tross
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« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2019, 09:18:08 PM »

Once the wing and tail section glue has set, there is a dry fit-up.
Picture 1 below is part of the fit with no glue.
It's more convenient to sand the parts separately prior to final assembly.
Each section can be laid flat on the building surface and thinned, or given a more aerodynamic form.
As seen in picture 2, the tail section is reduced.

The wire reinforcement I am using is .03" aluminum GTAW filler metal.
Shaped to fit, then CA'd into place.
I hold this reinforced section during launch.

I hope you get some more favorable flying conditions FLYACE. Smiley

Tony
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: 8" F-16 CatJet Build
Re: 8" F-16 CatJet Build
Re: 8" F-16 CatJet Build
Re: 8" F-16 CatJet Build
Re: 8" F-16 CatJet Build
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Instructions: Step One...Assemble the pile of sticks shown in pic "A" to look like the model airplane shown in pic "B"........
FLYACE1946
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« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2019, 12:34:20 PM »

Tony where does the .03 wire come from? I really like the easy approach to using it. I shaped my wire with my round nose plairs and then used Duco cement to glue it in place. Still working to match your flights but weather has been too stormy to get back out.
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tross
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« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2019, 10:13:52 PM »


It's a welding filler metal.
I realized later I should have stuffed more if it in the box. Tongue
It's a breeze to work with and a good size round for the rubber IMO.

I do like Duco for sure.
Easy glue to like for a lot of reasons.

I'm using CA for that spot around the wire however.
If you hear some crackling sounds  Shocked you might consider it. Grin
A little solvent to break the Duco free and re glue as you already know etc. Smiley

In the first picture below the nose and all of the leading edges are sanded to a knife point.
The thick CA is ran along those edges and wiped/spread using a latex-free vinyl glove.

The wing is more easily final sanded to shape without the ends (picture 2).

In addition, those parts are sanded to shape while loose (picture 3).

Measuring and sanding the wings square with the fuselage (4), and then finally you might see the far wing tip glued in the last picture.

What was your impression of the cuts FLYACE.
Hopefully it wasn't too much trouble getting the parts loose from the sheet.

Tony
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: 8" F-16 CatJet Build
Re: 8" F-16 CatJet Build
Re: 8" F-16 CatJet Build
Re: 8" F-16 CatJet Build
Re: 8" F-16 CatJet Build
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Instructions: Step One...Assemble the pile of sticks shown in pic "A" to look like the model airplane shown in pic "B"........
FLYACE1946
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« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2019, 10:42:41 PM »

Tony your cuts were fine. I had a sharp xacto to ease the final cuts. The entire experience was amazing. My son teaches welding so maybe I can get some more of that wire from him. I really like using that material. Thank you for your information. I want to try launching left handed and down wind as you do. Sure is an amazing flyer you came up with.
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tross
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« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2019, 09:50:54 PM »

The only reason I have a left hand is in case something happens to my right hand. Grin Smiley Cheesy Grin
I leave the simple task of letting go of the jet to it.
All the hand-eye-consistent-aiming, tension-sensing, wrist-flipping is assigned to the right hand.

With a new model it's all about trimming for a steady glide.
90% of the flights are set up to fly as you will see in the short one-flight clip below.
The cg is moved very slightly forward, along with a small increase in tail incidence.

I'm either using tungsten putty or sticky clay for ballast.

The putty is glued on with Duco, and then a thick CA to cap and smooth it.
Sticky clay is spread out in a similar way without the glue or CA.

https://youtu.be/htJRyaTTRB0

Tony
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: 8" F-16 CatJet Build
Re: 8" F-16 CatJet Build
Re: 8" F-16 CatJet Build
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Instructions: Step One...Assemble the pile of sticks shown in pic "A" to look like the model airplane shown in pic "B"........
tross
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« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2019, 09:28:18 PM »

The low powered flights help check the glide.
Pulling back fully on a 9" loop of 1/4" at a low angle can help check the launch.
When it travels the length of the yard without any issues I start moving up.
The short video below is the progression.
Not intended as a end all be all obviously.

1.Down low, low power with initial trim to make sure it will fly/glide.

2.Shoot it full power across the yard at a low angle.
       Trim out any high speed issues.

3.Move to a higher launch angle at full power and trim for rotation.
       
The windy conditions in this video required a bit more stability and recovery.
It can be flown closer to the edge in calm air.
I'm asking that the build be considered complete.
Here's the video, happy flying, and thanks again. Smiley

https://youtu.be/rhi7m0pbEX4

Tony
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Instructions: Step One...Assemble the pile of sticks shown in pic "A" to look like the model airplane shown in pic "B"........
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