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Author Topic: Peanut newbie.. help?  (Read 1086 times)
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fred
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« on: June 12, 2019, 12:25:56 PM »

 Seduced by  Wordguy's peanuts.. I'm attempting  his Mew Gull plan.
Building it shouldn't be too big a bridge to cross, (I hope)  other than it being half the size of my usual build efforts.
 Appropriate Rubber size and suitable prop however is a whole new world of  anxiety tho.
Haven't a clue where to begin..TBH
 Possibly any basic Newbie Guidelines on this?
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PB_guy
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« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2019, 01:25:32 PM »

Why don't you PM Wordguy and get his opinion.
ian
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ZK-AUD
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« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2019, 03:20:33 PM »

Hi Fred,

The single most important thing about peanuts is keeping the weight down.  It's an important paradigm shift that you have to make if you are accustomed to building bigger models.  for most folks they're doing well to keep their first peanut down to 10g but after that they start looking at things a bit harder and aim to get down to around 6-7g   This is quite easily do-able and results in a good aeroplane that will perform well and be easy to trim. The gurus build 'em down to 4g.

Light weight means you get away with thinner lighter rubber which means more turns, less torque and easier trimming.  Less weight means that you don't need the same strength.  If you can dispense with the wire undercarriage you're quids in.

Keeping the weight down means investing in some decent indoor wood (some great suppliers in North America),  lightweight paper, balsa or foam wheels, swapping 1/16 square out for 1/20 or even 1/32, laminated outlines, split ribs,  shaving plastic props until you can see through them etc..  I have a couple of peanut builds on this forum where you can get some ideas  https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=22532.25  https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=20734.msg188049#msg188049

I found a Japanese Mew Gull peanut on OZ and I can see at a glance why you would be seduced by it (almost heading to my building board now!) but a high wing job might give you a better start for peanut number 1 - interestingly there's a peanut plan for Eric Clutton's FRED by Siegfried Glockner on OZ (which would appeal to you).  I built a light version of this as my first peanut.  It was an easy build and it consistently did a minute on 1/16 rubber

Regards, Mike
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TheLurker
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« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2019, 03:58:58 PM »

With the benefit of my vast experience building Peanut scale models *cough* *cough* *cough* - I have built precisely one  - I'd agree with ZK-AUD about high wing monoplanes and suggest the Lacey M-10.  Peck-Polymer do a reasonably good* kit with 1/20" wood and 14g-15g built sans rubber is easily achievable and it will fly very well at that weight.  The M-10 is also a very forgiving model when it comes to trimming.

The only real advice I can give is; buy some good quality tweezers.  You'll need them. Smiley

Cheers,
Lurk.

*It's mostly OK, but there are a couple of wrinkles to watch out for.
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fred
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« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2019, 08:09:17 PM »

Thank you all gentlemen:
 Never occured to PM Wordguy.
 Peanut  ?   because my Granddaughter is Airplane mad.
There is very little, if anything, I wouldn't do for her....being  a first time grandfather.
Peanut seems appropriate for a medium size field/park  and a 30" tall tyke
Scratchbuilt my first model in ~1960  so there's some familiarity with Aero models.
 
However I have no experiences and idea of what rubber to buy /use..1/16th .. 1/8th ?? or even what size prop  is appropriate to a peanut.
 Have a 'few'  redundant Fishing reels to press into rubber winder service tho.
The  rest (hopefully ?) I can manage
Definitely not requiring contest level performance...
But a couple of airborne circles capability will surely please the tyke.. and me.
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TimWescott
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« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2019, 09:04:30 PM »

Bostonians may be a better choice for your ultimate goal.  A bit bigger (16"), they can carry more weight, they don't have to be scale so the construction is simpler, and the official rules say that they should get charisma points, so there's a lot of good looking designs out there.
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PB_guy
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« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2019, 09:12:37 PM »

Bostonians may be too lightly built. Perhaps dime scale stuff? 30" could be about 6 years old, perhaps something more sturdy made with sheet sides for the fuselage?
Walt Mooney designed a peanut called Old Ironsides with a sheet fuselage. See the plans gallery: https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/details.php?image_id=1044&mode=search
ian
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ZK-AUD
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« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2019, 10:21:17 PM »

Yes, small kids and peanut models are not a long-term combination!  Do the peanut for yourself and give the littlie  a Cloud Tramp
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Yak 52
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« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2019, 02:57:28 AM »

Hi Fred,

I agree that John Berryman's peanut designs are very appealing - I like that 'relaxed scale' style they have. They are drawn with 1/16" sq wood so you can use very light stock and they should be fairly stiff structurally. Looking at the Mew Gull plan it looks like it may come out nose heavy, especially with a plastic prop, so watch the weight of the sheeted areas. The large canopy is another area to watch the weight.

To answer your question: for a peanut intended to rise off ground the prop clearance will be around 4-5" but  for hand launch maybe up to 6". For something like this a Peck 4.75" is fine or cut down a 6" Peck if you want more pitch. Rubber motor size will depend on model weight but something between 3/32" and 1/8".

Obviously your little helper will have the potential to damage any model but the Wordguy peanuts don't look particularly light or delicate to me - they are more fun flying style than the usual super light duration focused models you see competing in the peanut class. Even if built a little more robust the Mew should be capable of giving 20-30 seconds of fun flying.


Another option for something quicker to build and more robust is the sheet balsa Frog Junior range :
http://www.houseoffrog.co.uk/junior_plans.htm

also with some scale plans - all around 12" span:
http://www.houseoffrog.co.uk/junior_scale.htm

I built the FROG Speedy in 2012 and it's still one of my favourite models for fun reliable flying. It has an 11.25" wing span and weighs about 8-9g. It flies on a Peck 4.75" and 1/8" rubber and still regularly cranks out 30 second flights in and outdoors:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOuLgBnF0T4

There are quite a few nice sheet designs out there. Paul Bradleys site has most of them:

http://www.parmodels.com/free-flight-models.html


Jon
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lincoln
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« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2019, 04:10:10 AM »

Bostonians may be too lightly built. Perhaps dime scale stuff? 30" could be about 6 years old, perhaps something more sturdy made with sheet sides for the fuselage?
Walt Mooney designed a peanut called Old Ironsides with a sheet fuselage. See the plans gallery: https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/details.php?image_id=1044&mode=search
ian

I've seen the Old Ironsides fly reasonably well, so it's probably a good recommendation. Walt Mooney also designed some all sheet models. For instance, a Volksplane. I've collected a number of all sheet designs done by various people. Depending on what your granddaughter likes, you might find a sheet ROG might be good, though if it has to be scale, or scale-ish, that's another story. If I had a granddaughter, I have a "Flying Aces Twin Pusher" by Julius Unrath that I'd try flying with her. It's relatively robust, all sheet, and is good for about 90 seconds when everything is just right. No freewheels, so when the rubber runs out and the props stop, it comes down quickly, making small fields a bit more feasible.

On a peanut, if you're not going for max duration, a prop diameter no more than 1/3 of the span may make things easier. That means smaller rubber, of course, though you can make it longer to compensate.

You might want to avoid designs with a lot of taper, as they may be a little tricky to trim. I suppose the taper on Berryman's Mew Gull isn't all that bad. If I was building it, I might thin the airfoil a bit more.

I think of legal outdoor Bostonians as heavy, though they're probably a good suggestion. 16 inch dime scale models can be built down to 5 grams, or even lighter, depending on the design. I suppose that's really courting out of sight flights if there's any thermal activity. Nothing like wading through a 4 foot deep stream to retrieve one. And that was without a freewheel. That one requires much less than 1/8" rubber, though I forget just how thin it is. It might be as narrow as 1/16". (I use a rubber stripper.)

You might want to check out Dick Baxter's designs. Our club mass launches the Pussycat (not the Big Pussycat, though I bet that flies well too). Seems like every one of them flies reasonably well, though some for longer than others. It's in the plan gallery. Skip the landing gear if you want to. You can probably use medium wood for outdoors, maybe even a bit heavier. Another club I flew with used to have a one design event with Little Richards. Not exactly the same as the Easy Built kit, but close. A bit more robust than the Pussycat, and with modest performance, but easy to fly. Plus if you're really gonzo, and increase the rubber size, you can tow something like 20 squares of toilet paper. Or carry a number of pennies. (Was it 5 or 7?) Much balsa carnage if you do stuff like that, though.

I built an old Sterling Monocoupe peanut once. Using the kit balsa (or was it oak? HEAVY!) Relatively sturdy. It was good for something like 25 or 30 seconds indoors on 1/8" rubber and the kit prop (I think). Sterling kit P-2 in the gallery. You will have to improvise for the nose area and cowl. This will be better than the kit, which had a fragile, heavy vacu form part up front.
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flydean1
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« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2019, 08:00:36 AM »

Fred, what is your granddaughter's age?
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fred
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« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2019, 12:17:30 PM »

Girl is only 3... 'Everything' is fresh and exciting to her.. the age of wonder.
Somehow glossed over by Life when my children were that age.
  Yesss .. I expect she Will damage, even  destroy the model, likely  sooner rather than  later.
Irrelevant though,  I'll build her more.
Although she has handled a few of my (24"  to 30" ) models, with surprising...care and caution.
In any event she wouldn't be launching.. probably happily doing  retrievals

 And Yess. fully agree, there are simpler Toy airplane solutions,  even a ' Flite Streek' clone from the local shop,
Could do that as well.  Although I associate those  more with failure than success, from youthful memories.
 Could also slap together a foam profile style J3 type model .. possibly  even as a single day build.

Truth is Granpa needs to present her with a pleasingly crafted  model... to delight Both of us.

Thank you ALL ! For the well considered collection of V useful (imo necessary) informations.. hopefully all I need to start.
Feel I owe you people progress updates ..when they happen
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PB_guy
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« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2019, 12:40:22 PM »

With my 3 year old granddaughter, I handed her gliders (8-10" W/S) so that she could toss them herself. I started with some foam ones I designed myself, using a large plastic-coated paperclip for nose weight. They flew well inside the house too! Too light to cause damage when they hit things. I made them out of egg-carton styrofoam.
ian
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fred
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« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2019, 12:04:48 PM »

Thank you for that.
 Gave her a simple EPO foam glider a couple months back.  She much prefers to watch and chase... So far.
Been busy building my Wee model.
Serious respect emerging for those who build Peanuts .. well.
These are tricky/fiddly lil rascals... doubly so.. to build cleanly/accurately.
 Definitely Not a trivial task .
Have fuse mostly done, now fitting front end 'sheetings'.
  Have a foam Nose and Spinner plug ready tho.
Scales claims my current assemblage is 1gm. No idea if good or bad, but it doesn't read as much at all
Will upload a pix as soon as I can deduce 'how to'
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fred
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« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2019, 01:01:46 PM »

Progress
 pix.. so far
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Yak 52
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« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2019, 01:13:23 PM »

That's really nice!

Are you planning to finish her as G-AEXF or G-HEKL? Smiley
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PB_guy
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« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2019, 01:15:01 PM »

If little fingers are going to launch this bird, then strengthen the gripping point on the bottom of the fuselage in the bay just behind the wing. A little bit of pressure at this point will break those nice longerons.
ian
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« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2019, 02:14:25 PM »

With my 3 year old granddaughter, I handed her gliders (8-10" W/S) so that she could toss them herself. I started with some foam ones I designed myself, using a large plastic-coated paperclip for nose weight. They flew well inside the house too! Too light to cause damage when they hit things. I made them out of egg-carton styrofoam.
ian

Is the plan the layout for two gliders, one a canard?   The inside capability is an added benefit with really young children.  Also, things like this can get decorated with markers, or even stickers.   

I did simple balsa gliders with daughter long ago.  She was seven or so, and she helped with building.  I cut, and she would round edges and help glue up (I made jigs).  She added stickers or color from markers.    Making more the one at a time meant there was a spare for when one got stepped on... 
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fred
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« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2019, 04:55:47 PM »

thank you   Embarrassed
Dunno as to which  "gull" exactly  But definitely the earlyish curved swoopy canopy version.  
Starting on carving a plug this afternoon.
The current AEXF configuration doesn't appeal,imo lacks charm .
 Pondering Rubber props...  Have some Peck Polymer types remaindered, as well as 3 sizes of Gunthers.
Likely end up making a curved balsa blade on a dowel type.
Rubber is a genuine issue though.  Will have to order some, annoyingly shippings are 3 X the cost of the gummy band material.. Moderne times indeed.
 
The Girl won't be launching, mainly because I'm finally realising the fragility of this size and  because she prefers to chase... so far.  
A previously provided  simple chuck glider established her preference
 
DIY decoration is  v Good suggestion.
I have a foamboard RC  Bird (eagle/ hawk)  in mind for her to feather/decorate .. next.
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fred
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« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2019, 08:12:15 PM »

Ok.. Made canopy plug heat shrunk a water bottle onto it and subsequently trimmed and test fitted it to fuse skeleton.
 Truth be told canopy is a bit wavy  (donor bottle ridges) and it's a bit  thick  / heavy (1.3 gms).
Both aspects could  be improved upon... I might yet... Wink  but it's early days.
  BUT... it was easy and it's Done. .. a significant advantage IMO
These teeny models don't really suck up that much time...
 Once one gets beyond the watchmaker skills required perception
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FLYACE1946
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« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2019, 11:47:45 AM »

Fred thank you for showing us how simple this process is. Well done
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fred
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« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2019, 03:53:19 PM »

got it all framed up.. except for the Landing gear.. later today.
Weighs 6.3 gms as per the Pix (yess.. I added a few wee stix here and there Wink
.... 5.0 gms sans canopy..  That will need redoing then.
 Planning on covering it with 1.4 mil Laminating film.. 17 to 20 gms sq metre .. dependant on who is weighing
 Dunno how that  compares to tissue, but same  (mebe less) weights as Airspan .. albeit a bit tougher
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Tiger Tim
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« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2019, 09:28:14 PM »

Great looking set of bones you’ve made there, Fred.  Very inspiring.
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« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2019, 04:47:27 AM »

Fred are you sure you have never done Peanuts before - that is very nice work. The spinner, canopy and nose block(foam?) look neat.

John.

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fred
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« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2019, 11:29:06 AM »

 Embarrassed Very First peanut ever.   
 Did my first scratchbuilt several decades ago though.
 Smallest models have previously  been 24" or greater .
Yess Blu (dow) Foam fiddly bits.
 I find it easier and typically lighter than carved balsa.
  A couple coats of Eze Kote toughens it up to useable surface strength.

Also use masking paper and white glue onto carved Foam bits;   apply ~ 8 layers ,
dig out the foam and it's essentially a molded Plywood shell. 
Easier and 'at least' as strong, light as a Vacuformed piece .
Without the trouble of setting up  my vacuform paraphenalia
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