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Author Topic: Keil Kraft Senator  (Read 1735 times)
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bbdave
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« on: June 19, 2019, 03:03:36 AM »

Right o this will be my second stick and tissue build I have built a Guillows piper cub but not flown it due to knowing nothing about flying rubber models luckily after asking some questions on the forum I was put into contact with someone local who could help me. It turns out there is a local ish FF club and after a phone call and a few more questions they I found they tend to fly duration models and not totally familiar with scale. So I have decided to build a Senator which they do fly and are  familiar with. Plus I do enjoy building so fingers crossed they can teach me the art of rubber power I am also armed with Don Ross's book "so what could possibly go wrong?".


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DavidJP
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« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2019, 04:04:17 AM »

I have seen more Senators go out of sight than anything else.  So doubt anything can go wrong!!  If you need a prop assembly then there is a chap who supplies them - ready to go - they are hand carved and very good.  Don't recommend the plastic ones. 
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billdennis747
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« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2019, 04:15:59 AM »

Yes, you have to try very hard to fail with a Senator. If it's straight, balanced and has a little right thrust, it's away. Yes, a better prop will be good. The only head-scratcher is arranging a DT but your club will help there.
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TheLurker
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« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2019, 12:57:17 PM »

Quote from: bbdave
..."so what could possibly go wrong?".
Nothing that can't be put right by a sitting down with a nice cup of tea and biscuit before starting again. Smiley

Looking forward to following this.  Have fun.
Lurk.
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Newbie_John
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« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2019, 04:58:11 PM »

And a written up build by Andy Sephton in the June Aeromodeller to compare it with, too  Wink

John
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gossie
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« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2019, 06:22:22 PM »

I've built five Senators and they are truly wonderful fliers.
Rather than me rattle on and show pics and hints search this fabulous forum in the rubber section for all you will need to have it flying like a pro.
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gossie
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« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2019, 06:42:29 PM »

While I think of it.
Here is THE propeller for Senator.
Happy to answer any questions you may have on your build.
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applehoney
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« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2019, 09:36:43 AM »

This one, from m'old mate John Godden .... RIP, John  ....  works very well too.   Have used it for several very successful Senators
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DavidJP
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« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2019, 04:58:23 PM »

This DT works quite well using a Tomy timer from flitehook
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TheLurker
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« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2019, 04:02:23 AM »

That's helpful.  I've been casting around for a decent DT setup for the Walthew MKII (yeah I know, I'm an incurable optimist) and that looks like it could be adapted without too much fuss.

Lurk.
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bbdave
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« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2019, 05:50:31 AM »

I have the first side down I tried aliphatic diluted 50/50 as recommended by my dad but nothing stuck so this is the second attempt using it neat this time.
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Big G
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« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2019, 06:18:52 AM »

If there was ever a vote for the best rubber-driven model ever kitted, the Senator would by way up my list. I only ever built one, using a balsa prop (of course), and after a few test-glides and a couple of hand-wind launches I connected the winder. For slightly too long. I launched it, it went up beautifully, picked up a boomer, and that was that. No d/t, it goes without saying.... Are they still flown in Mini-Vintage in the UK? They deserve to be. Proof of the old adage 'if it looks right, it'll fly right'.

G
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billdennis747
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« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2019, 08:07:42 AM »

Proof of the old adage 'if it looks right, it'll fly right'.
and glide left
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gman
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« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2019, 08:55:03 AM »

In the Plans Forum on this site there is a reprint of the Aeromodeller article by Ian Davitt regarding his winning ways with Senators. Under miscellaneous articles or some such, on my search just it was on page 11. It is an excellent in depth article.
Gavin
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FreeFlightModeller
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« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2019, 09:17:37 AM »

Bill,
Tee hee  Smiley

Gavin,
It is a good article ... I used the prop blank info for my solitary Senator (though I cut the ribs for four!)
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applehoney
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« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2019, 09:40:28 AM »

The Davitt prop blank shewn in the article has a dimensional error;  Ian's corrected one herewith..

That said .....  very many have been flown with props from the magazine article and do fine.

Take your pick       Wink
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gman
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« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2019, 11:07:10 AM »

I forgot that Ian had corrected the prop. Mine also seemed fine on the originally drawn one and I leaned heavily on the article when I built mine, including the "break fuselage" DT. There's also a Hipperson prop for the Senator, it'll be in a 1990s A/M though which one...
I flew my Senator in a good number of Mini Vintage comps in the early 2000s. It got me into plenty of fly-offs but never a win.
This might be a churlish comment on a thread about the lovely Senator but when it was stolen from off Barkston Heath I quickly built a Scram as a replacement. About a quarter the building effort and a better competition model IMHO. I've used it and its mate ever since in my occasional foray into Mini Vintage.
Gavin
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RalphS
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« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2019, 11:19:29 AM »

I flew mine yesterday in a very windy club comp.  Using a tip-up wing D/T it came out of big lift in the first round easily. I reduced the d/t time for the second flight - no lift this time and landed just short of a max.  I usually put the date of completion on the back of the nose block and just looked to see that the date was 2005.  Tissue over mylar covering, very much faded colours but it flies really nicely.  Right-Right - needs a lot of tail tilt for the right glide with that large free-wheeler prop.

I also saw that it said Senator number 3. The first two lost in Lincolnshire or Yorkshire.

It uses the John Godden prop blank. 

Brilliant design.

Ralph
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Big G
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« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2019, 12:07:00 PM »

My sole Senator was intended for Mini-Vintage and I never built another. Maybe I should have. IIRC I used the Davitt prop-blank, and also if IIRC a 'backwards' tailplane d/t. Which was academic as I never lit the fuse.... All this has made me think I should dig out the plan again.

G
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vintagemike
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« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2019, 03:12:14 PM »

Everybody should have at least 1 Senator
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2019, 03:35:35 PM »

If I said I had ... er... 'a friend' who really didn't see the appeal of Senators, and even thought they looked a bit... um... ugly... (despite their undoubtably brilliant flight characteristics)
would he be ostracised and asked to leave the forum?

(Hypothetical question, obviously.)
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Snaky Stringer
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« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2019, 03:43:27 PM »

I have never built a Senator. I have the plan and a box, which a friend who abandoned the hobby for a full-sized glider gave me with a lot of balsa and other stuff. Maybe I should embark. Trouble is I have a lot of other projects on the go. Tempting, though. Finding a place to fly it might also be a problem. Room enough for test glides and short circuits, i suppose.
 
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FreeFlightModeller
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« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2019, 04:16:57 PM »

Pete,
Your friend ... he should leave now ....

I think it's probably stranger that I find them attractive!
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TheLurker
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« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2019, 04:21:40 PM »

Quote from: Pete Fardell
If I said I had ... er... 'a friend' who really didn't see the appeal of Senators, and even thought they looked a bit... um... ugly...

Hmmm.  It might be worth pointing out to this poor,  misguided soul that they are no more utilitarian in appearance than say a Lacey M-10 or even, to pick an aeroplane competely at random, *cough* *cough* a CallAir A-9.  

Quote from: Pete Fardell
...would he be ostracised and asked to leave the forum?
No merely sent for re-education.   Wink
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bbdave
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« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2019, 05:04:23 PM »

If I said I had ... er... 'a friend' who really didn't see the appeal of Senators, and even thought they looked a bit... um... ugly... (despite their undoubtably brilliant flight characteristics)
would he be ostracised and asked to leave the forum?

(Hypothetical question, obviously.)

I know what your friend means I prefer other planes this is really to teach me the art of rubber power but that being said I'm starting to like the look of it.

Dave
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