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Author Topic: Indoor records for each ceiling category  (Read 741 times)
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Flyguy
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« on: July 13, 2019, 11:25:37 AM »

I was updating my spreadsheet of indoor records and thought the following plot was kind of interesting - current record against ceiling category.

Not surprisingly, the two categories without weight/rubber limits, Easy B and F1R, tend to be at the top.

I thought it was interesting that F1L, Penny, and Mini are all fairly flat between Cat. 1 and 2. Maybe because they're ceiling scrubbing in some Cat. 1 sites?

Easy B seems to get the biggest gains from ceiling height, in that the slope is pretty steep going from 2, 3, to 4, times are going up by over 5 min; F1L is the next steepest.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Indoor records for each ceiling category
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Olbill
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« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2019, 12:34:26 PM »

Possible reason for Cat 1 and Cat 2 records being similar is that Kent is probably the only really good Cat 2 site and flying there only happens once a year.

OTOH St. Lukes in the Atlanta area is a really great Cat 1 site for setting records and we fly there once a month.
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Flyguy
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« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2019, 01:02:11 PM »

Thanks Bill, that's two possibilities that I didn't even think of - because of lack of opportunities (and so the Cat. 2 times aren't as high as they could be, even though that isn't the case for Easy B or F1D since those go up in Cat. 2, so maybe not?), or because of availability of a really good Cat. 1 site, so the Cat. 1 times are high, making the 1-2 part of the curve flat, I like that one! I also took a peek at St. Lukes - looks nice!

I've always thought it would be informative about the records if we knew if the site allows ceiling scrubbing (there was an example here a little while ago where incredible (unofficial) times were reported overseas, but I found some videos and they showed many minutes of ceiling scrubbing at a site with a nice flat ceiling).

I've always wondered if Stan's mind-blowing 11+ Mini record in Cat. 1 was no-touch (possible with Stan, but wow!) or involved some touching/scrubbing at a more forgivable site?
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Olbill
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« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2019, 08:28:56 PM »

Nick Ray has been flying Mini's at St. Lukes for years and hasn't caught up with Stan yet.

The other record that skews the results is Warren Williams Cat 1 LPP record of 16+. No one will ever get close to that record IMHO.
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Flyguy
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« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2019, 11:14:24 PM »

Nick Ray has been flying Mini's at St. Lukes for years and hasn't caught up with Stan yet.

Thanks, that says everything right there. I think that 11+ Cat. 1 Mini record will stand for a long time, as it should, it shows just incredible flying. I have hopes or delusions, but not of beating that - I haven't worked on it much but I've gotten in the 8-9 min range no-touch at 32 feet, give me 5 years and I think I could get that up to 10 something, but 11+? I don't want to sound like I'm from NY (I am) but forget about it! It's always amazing what can be done in this hobby.
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cglynn
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« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2019, 08:42:35 AM »

Old thread, I know, but I have to ask....how on earth did Warren fly a Limited Penny Plane for 16+ in a Cat 1 sight? 
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Olbill
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« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2019, 11:35:06 AM »

Old thread, I know, but I have to ask....how on earth did Warren fly a Limited Penny Plane for 16+ in a Cat 1 sight? 

No one I've ever talked to will admit to witnessing this flight but what has been hinted at is that the model bounced along on the floor for a long time before actually flying. Thus the model's name "Skipper".

This is the reason that I introduced a rule change several years ago that made a flight end at the first touch on the floor. This agrees with the way FAI flights are timed - except for F1N which for some weird reason is timed until the model "comes to rest".
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cglynn
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« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2019, 01:45:07 PM »

Well, that's one way to do it.  Kind of defeats the purpose of flying.  Good on you for getting the rule changed.  Its much more in line with what flight should be.

CG
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ram
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« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2019, 06:25:10 PM »

Old thread, I know, but I have to ask....how on earth did Warren fly a Limited Penny Plane for 16+ in a Cat 1 sight? 

No one I've ever talked to will admit to witnessing this flight but what has been hinted at is that the model bounced along on the floor for a long time before actually flying. Thus the model's name "Skipper".

This is the reason that I introduced a rule change several years ago that made a flight end at the first touch on the floor. This agrees with the way FAI flights are timed - except for F1N which for some weird reason is timed until the model "comes to rest".

If that rule was changed subsequent to the record flight, wouldn't it sunset that record?
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Olbill
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« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2019, 07:03:21 PM »

It probably should have wiped out all the old records since timing before the change was when the model "comes to rest". I think there was an agreement made to not do that. I don't remember for sure.

The revised rule does make it more difficult to beat old records but people have beaten them anyway.
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Skymon
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« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2019, 07:25:08 AM »

Old thread, I know, but I have to ask....how on earth did Warren fly a Limited Penny Plane for 16+ in a Cat 1 sight? 

No one I've ever talked to will admit to witnessing this flight but what has been hinted at is that the model bounced along on the floor for a long time before actually flying. Thus the model's name "Skipper".

This is the reason that I introduced a rule change several years ago that made a flight end at the first touch on the floor. This agrees with the way FAI flights are timed - except for F1N which for some weird reason is timed until the model "comes to rest".

Bill
With a plane driven by a prop it is easy to see the prop stop and the plane sinks. With a glider the sink angle can be so low that it becomes difficult to see when it actually touches the ground. So there might be a bit of controversy over the actual touch down time across two timers. I guess that might be why a glider is timed different - I expect its worth half a second of slide on a nice polished gym floor compared to a carpet.
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adanjo
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« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2019, 05:25:50 AM »

We always time and stop watches when HLGs touches the floor because we time for record purposes. It's not difficult at all to stop the watch when the model touches the floor.
Aki
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Skymon
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« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2019, 05:58:08 AM »

We always time and stop watches when HLGs touches the floor because we time for record purposes. It's not difficult at all to stop the watch when the model touches the floor.
Aki

Aki
World records need to be timed to FAI rules: -
The timing of each flight shall commence when the model is launched. Timing will terminate
when:
a) the model comes to rest on the floor of the building.
b) the model comes into contact with any part of the building or its contents other than the
floor and translational movement ceases.

It's all about movement rather than flight.
I'm not sure if anyone knows what 'translational' movement is...?

BMFA use this method for UK records as well, I guess you may have different rules for your locality.

Best regards
Simon
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Skymon
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« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2019, 06:00:45 AM »

Translational (Adjective)

of, or relating to a body in motion



there you go - motion ceases.
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piecost
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« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2019, 07:22:36 AM »

Does that mean that i could win F1N by putting driven wheels on the model and make it drive around the floor for a minute?
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adanjo
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« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2019, 10:57:50 AM »

Aki
World records need to be timed to FAI rules: -
The timing of each flight shall commence when the model is launched. Timing will terminate
when:
a) the model comes to rest on the floor of the building.
b) the model comes into contact with any part of the building or its contents other than the
floor and translational movement ceases.

It's all about movement rather than flight.
I'm not sure if anyone knows what 'translational' movement is...?

BMFA use this method for UK records as well, I guess you may have different rules for your locality.

Best regards
Simon

Yes, world records need to be timed to FAI rules.
But the rules you quoted above are not for record but for competition.
Please read the Sporting Code Section 4 - Aeromodelling, Records, 5.1.1.2

Aki
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