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Author Topic: My first F1R  (Read 2863 times)
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Flyguy
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« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2019, 09:18:02 PM »

I'll post the A6 plans, just need a few days to get around to checking the pdf version, kind of busy getting ready for Wednesday flying right now.

I built a new stab and rudder for the F1r, also noticed when I got home that the boom was bent as well, so I also had to replace that. New boom/stab/rudder shown, total plane weight was still around .52 g. Biggest challenge at the field so far is getting it out of the box without breaking it.
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Iridescent Wings
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« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2019, 03:25:20 PM »

I'll post the A6 plans, just need a few days to get around to checking the pdf version, kind of busy getting ready for Wednesday flying right now.

I built a new stab and rudder for the F1r, also noticed when I got home that the boom was bent as well, so I also had to replace that. New boom/stab/rudder shown, total plane weight was still around .52 g. Biggest challenge at the field so far is getting it out of the box without breaking it.

Hey, you're Domoremath, aren't you?
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Flyguy
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« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2019, 05:17:52 PM »

Yes, haven't done much outdoor flying this year though.

Given the problems with the box mentioned above, I upgraded it with balsa slides, both for the wings and props, first photo, second photo shows that the A6 and F1L wings both just fit on one slide. More room and I'm not breaking things (as much)!
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Iridescent Wings
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« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2019, 06:50:54 PM »

That looks very nice! I have trouble building that well, but maybe it's just impatience. Awesome nevertheless!
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Flyguy
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« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2019, 03:36:55 PM »

Thanks, it's a lot of practice and some patience, pretty much what this hobby is all about!

I finished a second F1R, didn't change anything but used some old .006 I had for the boom, and so it came out lighter at .494 g. The A6 and F1L track nicely and don't need steering, but this is light and drifts more and I realized last week that I have to learn how to pole steer for the F1R; that motivated building a back-up cause the learning curve will probably consist of some breakage!
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Iridescent Wings
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« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2019, 05:34:05 PM »

Incredible building skills! Now I want to build one of my own  Tongue
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Flyguy
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« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2019, 06:50:10 PM »

Today had to be the coldest indoor flying I've ever done, it was 25 outside when we got there and the new heating system isn't done so there was NO heat, and some windows were open! Of course I closed them immediately, but it was really cold and drafty, I'd say <40, my F1R prop was turning continuously while in the holder. There were four of us flying rubber and we were all bundled in sweaters, scarves, and coats. The cold air really killed the A6's for all three of us who where flying them, a real struggle to climb.

I was surprised to see that the F1R, on the other hand, really climbs, cold or not. I thought I'd need a lower pitch prop with the cold, but it climbed like it was at Lakehurst so I immediately changed to a higher pitch prop. Still need to figure out the right prop/rubber combo, but I had a few good flights, best time was 14:13 for a no-touch that went up 30 something feet. Interesting that it handled the cold/breezes (I had to do some pole steering), whereas the A6's clearly had problems. Club pres. mentioned that we may not have heat until January, which would really kill the season, plus it's the worst possible timing because I'm on sabbatical until January and don't have to race out, so the flying is more relaxing; I was really looking forward to the next few months, but it's not as much fun when you're freezing your buns off!

I got a little video, included at the end here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQyNc8UUJQk

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OZPAF
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« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2019, 02:14:37 AM »

That's keen Larry - flying in 7 below. Brr! interesting to see the cold affecting the heavier model more than the F1R. It seems like a power problem (ie rubber), to me, but it's hard to see why?
The A6 motors colder than the F1R?

Ah - modellings continuous source of little mysteries. Thanks for the video. Good luck with the heating.

John
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Flyguy
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« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2019, 10:14:45 AM »

Hi John, yes it's interesting, there are so many possibilities it's complex. People were breaking motors, and I know from winter outdoor flying that cold isn't good for the rubber, so that probably has something to do with it. But my guess in this case is that the main culprit was moisture - it rained earlier and I've noticed that the climb stinks in moist air, I guess because of the lower density, and this will also affect the pull of the prop as well. Probably had a bigger effect on the A6 because of the narrow wing. Also the balsa gets a little floppier in moisture which doesn't help. We'll have to see what happens if we get a cold, dry day, but I'm praying they get the heat on soon! I could swear that when I opened up the box when I got home that I could feel the cold air coming out in my nice warm apartment!
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Flyguy
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« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2019, 10:54:10 AM »

Forgot to mention, I also think that another aspect of the cold air is that it 'sinks' off the windows and creates a lot of air currents, we had some stalls when the planes turned into the 'breeze' (coming from the direction of the windows, that's why I think that's the culprit), still happens with the heat on but it seems less, and the heat dries the air out and you get better flying.
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« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2019, 12:28:02 PM »

Hi Larry, are you doing your indoor flying at Lakehurst? That place is so big it creates its own weather. I lost 2 peanut MO-1s in there about 15 years ago.

Iridescent wings, you should try Ray Harlan's parlor mites if you want to get a taste of this thing. I found you need some pretty fine tuned tools to cut some of that stock. I flew my parlor mites in the living room for years, I lost one to Grandad swatting it away one Thanksgiving dinner. It was a howl and I didn't mind losing the plane. It took a few mins. getting it all out of the gravy tureen! Sorry Larry back to your reg. scheduled program!
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Flyguy
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« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2019, 07:55:39 PM »

Hi Crabby - it's not Lakehurst, it's Teaneck armory in NJ, it's about 34 feet to the lights in the center. At least next week it should be in the 40's outdoors so it should be better indoors, though I really wish we could find out when the heat will be back, hard to fly when you want to jump up and down to keep warm.

Sorry Larry back to your reg. scheduled program!

Not a problem, the parlor mites are fun, I'd also check the plans gallery, there are some good plans there, and you can also look online at indoor news and views, have fun!
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OZPAF
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« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2019, 07:06:39 PM »

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But my guess in this case is that the main culprit was moisture - it rained earlier and I've noticed that the climb stinks in moist air, I guess because of the lower density, and this will also affect the pull of the prop as well. Probably had a bigger effect on the A6 because of the narrow wing.

That would make more sense - the Re No's would be lower which would hit your high AR A6's. The F1R has to deal with low Re's 0- but it will perform even better I suspect on a good day with higher density.

Interesting little facets of modelling and flying - how could it ever get boring?

Enjoy your reports Larry - hope they get that heating going earlier.

John
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Flyguy
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« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2019, 10:13:43 AM »

Hi John - yes I think that's right, hard not to notice that flying stinks on really moist days. Unfortunately the heat was still off this week, so it was again winter-coat indoor flying. I talked to the building manager and he said it should be on soon, I hope he's right. We won't find out for two weeks though, there's no flying next Wednesday because parade bands use the armory for practice the day before Thanksgiving. Fingers crossed for next time!
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Iridescent Wings
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« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2019, 06:12:41 PM »



Iridescent wings, you should try Ray Harlan's parlor mites if you want to get a taste of this thing. I found you need some pretty fine tuned tools to cut some of that stock. I flew my parlor mites in the living room for years, I lost one to Grandad swatting it away one Thanksgiving dinner. It was a howl and I didn't mind losing the plane. It took a few mins. getting it all out of the gravy tureen! Sorry Larry back to your reg. scheduled program!

Do you have any specific plans for me to try? I found a canard pusher in the plan gallery but otherwise just ministicks.
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Flyguy
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« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2019, 04:14:24 PM »

I've been looking for a narrower tailboom form, and the new one from indoorffsupply fit the bill. My latest F1R fuselage is 3/16" in diameter, and the boom from the Harlan form is about 3/16" and tapers to slightly under 1/8", so I have to make a plug to fit it on the fuselage.

Boom from the new form is about 5/32" or less at the end and tapers to about 1/16" at the tip, stayed nice and round at the tip so that's good! First photo shows new boom next to old one, second shows new boom mounted in fuselage next to old one - the boom just fits directly into the fuselage now so I don't need plugs anymore. I noticed on the completed F1R that the new boom is a little more flexible, I don't think it will be a problem but we'll see.
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Iridescent Wings
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« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2019, 05:54:39 PM »

Maybe use boron?
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Flyguy
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« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2019, 06:42:22 PM »

That's a possibility (and I have boron), but I'd probably just replace it with .01 or .009 balsa boom instead of .008, trying to keep it boron-free. I don't think it's going to be a problem though, the other boom is dead stiff, this one just has a little flex.
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« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2019, 03:40:46 AM »

I wanted to say that your journey has been a joy to watch.
Your planes are beautifully crafted and perform superbly.
Many thanks for sharing.

I enjoy the F1R planes because of the constant pursuit of mass reduction whilst still retaining form and performance.
The size of the materials, the delicacy of the structure and the small size of the model all add up to a captivating class.

I have enjoyed building F1R, I have never got close to your times but you have given me inspiration to continue to pursue improvement.

If you want to experiment with boom forms, then the solid carbon tapered rods from AliExpress might be of interest, they do all sorts of sizes. I believe there is someone in the USA selling them as boom blanks. But they can be had from the far east at quite low costs.

https://probomesh.aliexpress.com/store/group/Fiber-Glass-Rod-Blanks/4373006_513569990.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148362.8.1ac74c5et0mqE9&origin=n&SortType=price_asc&g=y

Thanks
Si
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Flyguy
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« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2019, 01:06:41 PM »

Thank you Si, and holy cow there's a lot of potential boom forms in that link! I'll have to spend some time looking through it, though I'm pretty happy with the current smaller boom, just have to test it.

I enjoy the F1R planes because of the constant pursuit of mass reduction whilst still retaining form and performance.
The size of the materials, the delicacy of the structure and the small size of the model all add up to a captivating class.

Agreed! I'm really liking F1R. The size is perfect, I can easily get them on the bus, I like that all the structure is good old balsa, and it flies nice. I have to get better at steering with the pole though, particularly at high altitudes. The problem with flying F1R in the armory is that, say I'm skimming the lights at 33', then it's at that height for a fairly long time and so if it's drifting towards the net you have to steer it while it's still pretty high, which I hate doing. My current pole (lost the tip) is 29' so it's a problem, since I have to lift it up a few feet. I have on order (and apparently shipped on a slow boat from China - delivery is anytime in the next 1 or 2 months!) a 30" collapsed pole (same as my current) that is 36' extended, which is past the lights at 34', so it should be easier to steer at the max altitude (with the pole on the ground), though I stink at it anyway.

My new F1R with the smaller boom is finished but I probably won't test it tomorrow (unless the first one hits the killer net! that happened on the first flight last week) since I'm still flying the first one. I went back to a slightly higher pitch prop and I want to see what that does, the climb is always incredible (but too much). Christmas and New Years day are both on Wednesdays so after tomorrow that's it for flying for a few weeks, I might take more chances because there will be plenty of repair/rebuild time!
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Skymon
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« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2019, 03:21:32 PM »

Are you using a VP hub?
Also, what prop form are you using if you don't mind me asking ?
Si
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Flyguy
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« Reply #46 on: December 18, 2019, 07:53:44 PM »

No, I have a VP hub but I need to get more experience with the FP prop first, still working on that. Shape is my own design, nothing unusual.

Got in a test flight of the new F1R at the end of todays session, took one quick photo (below). I was happy to see that the thinner tailboom was not a problem, flight looked promising, seemed a little slower.
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Flyguy
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« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2020, 03:04:04 PM »

What a bummer, I saw in today's news that there was an outbreak of Covid-19 in Teaneck, and not long after that flying was suspended at the armory, ouch. So I thought I might have some flying updates on the F1R this season, but it looks like the indoor season might already be over, we'll see. Anyway, most of my flying sessions with the F1R this year have really only been about learning steering, I have a light 36' pole that is perfect for the armory, it's 34' to the lights (it's what I call 'suicide flying' to go above that; you lose the plane in the vast majority of cases). I've gotten a little better with the pole but have a long way to go.

I have an F1R build video that I've been making while doing some building, came out kind of long when I started putting it together so it's 3 parts, I put up the first part which is the fuselage/boom, second part is the prop, third part is the wing, still working on that; below is a shot from the covering the wing part (still cursing myself for forgetting to better adjust the light in that part of the video!) I put in some brief flying at the end, you might just want to skip to that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tfWf-vOJdA 

The indoor shutdown has got me thinking that this might be a good time to get back to some outdoor, there are no team sports in the field and so it's probably empty, now if we only have a calm day, I barely remember what outdoor flying is like at this point. I've had the Senator bones sitting around for over 9 months, might be time to finish it up!
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« Reply #48 on: March 15, 2020, 09:59:57 PM »

Bad luck Larry, but at least you should soon find out whether the Senator lives up to it's reputation or not.

John
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Flyguy
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« Reply #49 on: March 16, 2020, 12:12:14 PM »

Hi John - I'm quite sure the Senator is a great flier! At the beginning of a building video I started over a year ago (yikes), I compare the Sky Gull wing and fuselage to the Senator plan to show that they are very similar, similar wing size, fuselage is similar. Given that the Sky Gull is one of the best flying cabin models I've ever seen, I'm pretty sure that the Senator will also have pretty high performance, as many UK modelers already know. I hope I'm not too rusty on outdoor covering, I was just getting the indoor F1R's down!

It's a little off topic, but I like to post pictures and here's the bones that I've been looking at for the last 9 months. I'm finishing an F1R (and video) now, given there's no indoor, might be a good time to get sanding.
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