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Author Topic: Junkers 87 B-2/R-2  (Read 2997 times)
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Russ Lister
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« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2019, 03:15:52 PM »

I shall follow your pursuit of an "anti-win" with interest  Smiley

You might want to try some moral turpitude.. a thinner that allows a thin coat of paint, thus fooling the judges that yours is a tissue finish .... much frowned upon if they find it though .... penalty points will roll Roll Eyes
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TheLurker
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« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2019, 04:39:09 PM »

Well as Abl has guessed I do have a plan, whether or not it is cunning remains to be seen.

Finish.  I'm going to try for an all tissue finish.  The camouflage is splinter so it's straight edges, this will help.  I will also be giving EzeDope a miss for this build.  It worked OK for applying the cheatlines and small detail on the M-10, but on domestic tissue it was an absolute B to use on the large fin bands.  I've found some pretty good matches for the base colours, Abl kindly tacked the "Hell Blau" for me onto an order of bits from the States, my but that was pricey tissue.  The other two tissues came from VMC.  See the pics.  Covering is the bit I'm most likely to utterly foul up, but I'll worry about it when I get there.  I'll probably have to do most of the "decals" with 45gsm, but if I'm not pushed for time I'll see what I can do with cut tissue.  After all it is, sort of, a kit scale build.

Herewith the first deviation.  Older readers may remember that Keil Kraft's less expensive kits came with sheet empennages.  Well this one won't.  At the moment I'm swithering on stab. span.  It'll probably be 110% of scale.  There will also be a small amount of lamination, mainly to get a good curve on the top of the rudder.  The plan is also to hinge the rudder.  This proved enormously helpful on the Lacey M-10; enough for me to think it worthwhile adopting it as routine practice.

Quote from: billdennis747
In this race to the bottom, may we employ lousy workmanship too? I have found it works in the past.
Alas Bill, I'm so ham-handed I won't have to try on that front.

Quote from: Pete Fardell
Will you be allowed to draw the judges’ attention to all your transgressions to ensure they don’t miss any?
Oh dear me no, that would be boasting, really most ungentlemanly, quite unseemly and one does not argue with the umpire.  Just not cricket.  If I have to endure the forfeit through an oversight of His Honour then I must do so with good grace ... and a sick bag to hand.

Quote from: Pete Fardell
I do like black pudding, but haggis is an altogether classier and more tasty dish. Of course, as with all these things, there's good haggis, indifferent haggis and really good haggis.
You had to say that just as supper time was coming up didn't you?  Where am I going to get haggis at this time of night? 
*Ancient history.   You may tune out now*  When I was a penniless student oaf a very long time ago I lived within easy walking distance of Bruntsfield where MacSweens had their shop.  Now that was really good haggis.

Quote from: FreeFlightModeller
You might want to try some moral turpitude..
Alas I fear that would be classified with, "Using an airbrush with intent." and be frowned upon most severely by the adjudicator and cost me many, many penalty points which I can ill afford to lose. Smiley
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abl
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« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2019, 02:04:29 AM »

Oh dear.

Replacing all-sheet tail surfaces with built-up equivalents is at least two "significant deviations" (and I can see how it might be more than that) and if it goes on like this you're going to walk it. I'd better go and break open the piggy bank.
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yagua
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« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2019, 07:30:51 AM »

Soo.... if I get it right, the thing is to use a not very good plan and build as much as "perfectly scale" possible..?

Appendix (b) – On The Awfulness of Avocado
If human beings were intended to eat sloppy green goo tasting of not very much at all we would not have been given teeth or taste-buds.  Dreadful, dreadful stuff.  An abomination.  Readers are referred to the attached picture of Green Goo on Toast.



You've obviously never had a a properly grown and sun ripened Avocado like I used to have in Africa. So delicious! The horrible, watery and hard little green things offered in this country as 'ripe 'n ready' do the greatness of the Avocado no justice. The first things I do when I go back are get some avo, cheddar and pinotage.
Definitely!! I have a couple of avocado trees at home, and they should be eaten when they fall. It´s the exact maturation point. Also try it smashed, with some salt and (no too many) lemon drops. Perfect company for a steak Grin
PS: When you buy it, if the shell is not firm (flimsy), it´s a little bit on the rotten side. If it´s too firm (hard), is not mature enough. In this case, wrap it with brown paper or newspaper and leave it for a couple of days in a mid temperature not sunny place (not fridge, not too hot)
PS2: I´m allready drooling..!!  Roll Eyes
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TheLurker
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« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2019, 02:03:57 PM »

Quote from: abl
... if it goes on like this you're going to walk it.
Don't forget those final 12 seconds.  If the build fails up at any point up to and including that qualifying flight I lose. Smiley

Quote from: yagua
Soo.... if I get it right, the thing is to use a not very good plan and build as much as "perfectly scale" possible..?
Partly.  There's a few bells and whistles to make the whole enterprise more amusing, but it's not a bad way of thinking of it.

As for Monz' and your joint advocacy of avocados.  It may be that a perfectly ripe avocado is delicious and that my opinion of the edibility of the same has been biased by the poor quality of those available in these benighted islands, but any foodstuff that has such a narrow window where it is fit to eat is automatically suspect in my book.  You'll be telling me next that medlars are delicious too.  Smiley
« Last Edit: September 04, 2019, 03:03:06 PM by TheLurker » Logged
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« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2019, 03:51:04 PM »

Are we not walking the tightrope between adherence to plan .... and straight DQ? If it is too far from the plan and kit, it may just be declared "not a kit scale model"?

Party Pooper.
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abl
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« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2019, 04:22:44 PM »

I don't think so, because:

a) There's nothing in the rules that were outlined in the first post to that effect, and
b) There doesn't seem to be anything in the "Normal" kit Scale rules about a model being disqualified for having too many changes - just dark threats about "significant deviations" costing 5 points.

This is very handy because one of my personal ambitions is to present a model for kit scale judging that looks like a real aeroplane but which manages to score 0 or fewer static points because of all the penalties; unfortunately I haven't worked out how to do this yet - I think I can get to somewhere near 50 penalty points by selecting the correct kit and then fixing all the scale deviations, but that's not really enough.

Of course, the powers that be might now add a "disqualification" clause but that would be most unsporting...

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« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2019, 04:39:32 PM »

Yes Andy, it would be a shame to introduce such a clause .... I feel miserable just voicing the possibility!
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applehoney
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« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2019, 06:44:54 PM »

"present a model for kit scale judging that looks like a real aeroplane but which manages to score 0 or fewer static points "

Not kit scale ... but back in the 60's I had a 'scale' model tossed out of an event at an Elvington rally.  Tried to enter a TD.049 pylon model, to be told it was a scale event for models that looked like a real airplane.  I brought out a large version of the design with a honking .40 up front.   Pointed out that it was a real airplane as I could hold it in my hand ... that the1/2A was same design, same structure, same colour scheme  ...and was therefore a scale model of the real one.  Then had the pleasure of pointing out that their club rules did not specify that an entry had to be of a man-carrying airplane. Judge was taken aback .... vocal assessment caused some general amusement.  Anyone in ye olde countrie remember Sam Messom ?
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billdennis747
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« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2019, 02:37:04 AM »

  Anyone in ye olde countrie remember Sam Messom ?
No but I clearly remember his photo in his obituary in AM in the 60s. He looked the kind of old-school bloke who would give up his Sunday to run an event for the enjoyment of others.
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abl
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« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2019, 02:51:16 AM »


Then had the pleasure of pointing out that their club rules did not specify that an entry had to be of a man-carrying airplane. Judge was taken aback .... vocal assessment caused some general amusement...


 Grin

That story has made my day.

A.
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John Webster
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« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2019, 03:03:33 AM »

One wonders why a forward thinking firm like Lurker Industries has a farrier and cartwright on staff.
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« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2019, 04:20:47 AM »

One wonders why a forward thinking firm like Lurker Industries has a farrier and cartwright on staff.

Maybe Lurker Industries is in fact planning for all future UK scenarios...?!  Grin
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« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2019, 04:25:16 AM »

One wonders why a forward thinking firm like Lurker Industries has a farrier and cartwright on staff.
Well you wouldn't expect the company secretary to shoe the horses or fix a broken cartwheel, would you?
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TheLurker
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« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2019, 05:47:37 AM »

One wonders why a forward thinking firm like Lurker Industries has a farrier and cartwright on staff.
A horse and cart can go where a motor vehicle cannot.  Always a consideration when recovering personnel from *cough* unplanned landings.
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TheLurker
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« Reply #40 on: September 07, 2019, 04:33:51 AM »

Aircraft production work is currently suspended whilst the Works Dept. puts a number of issues right with the Company's buildings including the Assembly Shed. However administrative work continues and The Board wishes to thank Mr. Webster, a correspondent outwith the Empire, for his enquiry about Mr. Worcester's career. It is hoped that the following information will be helpful.



Fortunately, or perhaps more accurately unfortunately, Mr. Worcester's early adult life has been rather too well documented by Mr. Wodehouse.  Almost all of Mr. Wodehouse's work, including his biographies of Mr. Worcester, can be obtained in a number of formats, including plain text, and without cost from Project Gutenberg. Some of the more popular biographies are listed below.

Right Ho, Jeeves
The Inimitable Jeeves
My Man Jeeves

Given Mr. Worcester's subsequent career, one can only remark that the remarks attributed to His Late Majesty King Henry the Fifth, by a Mr. Wm. Shakespeare, a most unreliable biographer by all accounts, apply most aptly to Mr. Worcester,

   "How he comes o'er us with our wilder days,
    Not measuring what use we made of them."



Or ...  
Still tied up with redecorating bits of the house so only niff, naff and trivia around the edges of this build are getting done at the moment.

Lurk

« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 04:44:58 AM by TheLurker » Logged
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« Reply #41 on: October 05, 2019, 04:13:57 PM »

Despite complaints from a number of members of staff about the lingering reek of paint in various parts of the Company premises work was resumed a week ago following the autumn fair fortnight shutdown.

Or...

Bulk of fuselage done.  So what's been changed?  Ohh, not a great deal.  Let me see now . . .

Front end has had to be significantly reworked.  The most obvious kit deviation from the prototype is the top line of the nose.  The kit is a smooth line from cockpit to prop. whereas the prototype has an asymmetric air intake which is sort of flat.  The underside isn't quite right either.  The kit fuselage line is more like a Hurricane or Spitfire.  A gentle curve from the LE up to the prop.  Whereas the prototype is flattish under the cockpit angling down roughly 15 to 20 deg from the LE to the back of the rad. housing and quite sharply angled up after the rad housing to the prop.  Oh and the rad. housing on the kit wasn't quite deep enough and flat bottomed rather than rounded.  Umm what else?  Weel.... the proportion of the rear part of the fuselage isn't quite right either, so, that had to be ermm tinkered with.

As I was rejigging the front end I've decided to go for a removeable noseblock because the kit setup looks like it's only really suitable for hand winding.  Which, given the kit's original target market, is fair enough.  The removeable noseblock also makes it easier to represent the prototype's lines a little more closely.  

And just for fun I'm going to try representing the bomb aiming window with an inset "tent".  One side pale blue the other silver or something that suggests reflective glass.

What's left to do?

Strip and replace F3-F6 stbd short lower with something a little less like an oak roof beam.  
Cut and fit the rad. inlet and final stringers
Fit motor peg panels
Infill over the top between F1 & F2 and a fillet for the asymmetric inlet shape.
Some infill to support the exhaust stacks.
Probably some infill over the top of the nose.


Lurk.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Junkers 87 B-2/R-2
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abl
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« Reply #42 on: October 05, 2019, 05:31:01 PM »

> Front end has had to be significantly reworked.

Look on the bright side - that's got to be at least 5 and possibly 10 penalty points...  Smiley

Watching with great interest.

A.
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« Reply #43 on: October 06, 2019, 01:34:43 PM »

Änderung verboten  Wink
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TheLurker
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« Reply #44 on: October 06, 2019, 03:52:58 PM »

Quote from: FreeFlightModeller
Änderung verboten  Wink
I've started, so I'll finish... Smiley

So much for plans.  Got the "beam" replaced, motor peg panels in and the rad. housing is started.  Unfortunately the radiator grille looks more like a cheesy grin than a rad.  and it's not quite symmetrical.  Bother.  Rivet counters will also note that it isn't as deep as it should be for scale accuracy. Partly the limits of the material, the presence of the lower keel and the builder's limitations.

The construction is a very simple.   A 1/32" ply reinforcer cut, pierced and glued behind F1 which is then pierced.  The bottom 4 stringers are cut deep and curved outwards.  The plan is to infill with soft 3/32" and shape to match these curved stringers so that I can represent the belling out of the housing on the prototype.   

The bottom keel within the housing will be extended to the bottom of the housing and initially the gap won't be filled.  Plan is to leave the space between the inner stringers and the keel open so that main ballast can be glued to the extension.  It may get filled in after that, it may not.  We'll see.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
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Re: Junkers 87 B-2/R-2
Re: Junkers 87 B-2/R-2
Re: Junkers 87 B-2/R-2
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TheLurker
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« Reply #45 on: October 07, 2019, 07:26:04 AM »

Quote from: TheLurker
... Plan is to leave the space between the inner stringers and the keel open so that main ballast can be glued to the extension.  It may get filled in after that, it may not.  We'll see.
Change of plan.  Nice big noseblock opening with lots of clearance for fingers (well tweezers) so mount platform above lower keel between F1 & F2. Stick initial ballast to that. Will also do for flight trimming ballast as well.  Much neater. Amazing what a few hours kip can do eh?
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« Reply #46 on: October 07, 2019, 04:20:37 PM »

Oh dear, yet more letters from the various Ministries wanting to know why production so slow at Lurker Industries....

Plodding on.  Four, count em, four!, bits of infill fitted tonight and the air intake rough shaped.   The profile of the air intake will have to wait for the nose-block before final sanding to get the line, but it looks about right at the moment.  Unless I have a massive brain-wave as to how to represent the intake shape of the port side moderately well I'm going to leave the top port side of the nose flat.
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« Reply #47 on: October 12, 2019, 04:08:52 PM »

Fuselage, nearly, done.  Have to make up the nose-block to before I finish shaping the line of the air intake, but it's close enough to be worth showing progress so far.  Only taken a fortnight. Smiley

I'm calling the rad housing a score draw. The modification for the rad. intake would have worked better with a 1/64" ply reinforcement rather than 1/32", the 1/32" is too hard to work easily in a fragile area.  However the "chin" has worked pretty well and the overall profile is now very definitely Ju87 rather than a "probable" Ju87.  I'll probably stick a rad. image over the top of the pierced intake when it's transferred to the paint shop because I'm not sure I can live with the asymmetry.  The rear part of the rad housing will, probably, be made, in accordance with the kit suggestion, out of card although.... 

For those trying to keep track the kit housing was a bolt-on, card-covered, not deep enough and flat bottomed into the bargain. It's now is incorporated into the formers and is closer to scale depth.

Another deviation from the kit.  Nose is part sheeted. Why?  Werl... Did it for K5083 (VMC Hurricane) and it gave a much better finish over complex nose curves and the top of the Ju 87's nose looked to me like it'd be worth doing for much the same reason.  The rest of the fuselage is surprisingly slab-sided so (one hopes) it'll be a relatively straight-forward covering job.

Oh, yes.  Another change.  The way the wings are fitted.  I'll explain why later in the build when I get to the wings.  Nothing to do with appearance.

Just out of interest.  Am I alone in taking such an awfully long time to fit infill?  It can take me anywhere from 10 minutes to half an hour to get a panel in place and that's if I get it right first time.
 
Pics.  Couple of close-ups of the rad. housing one showing that damned off-centre grille and the rest general views of the fuselage as it is now.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Junkers 87 B-2/R-2
Re: Junkers 87 B-2/R-2
Re: Junkers 87 B-2/R-2
Re: Junkers 87 B-2/R-2
Re: Junkers 87 B-2/R-2
Re: Junkers 87 B-2/R-2
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« Reply #48 on: October 12, 2019, 05:41:58 PM »

Hi Lurk. I was dreading all the nose infill I had to do on my Rockytop Spitfire, so much that I even dreamt up a solution. What I did in the end was wrap the nose in white tissue and did a full nose pencil rubbing. When the tissue was removed and mounted flat onto 1/16 sheet, I had a perfect pattern from which to cut, and more important it made sense to me. I waited a long time to get this idea to float in, and the build was in a state of revolving hour glass till it appeared in a dream state one night. I get stuck a lot like this, and a build can sit for months till the answer comes. So no I don't think you take too long at all on your builds. Unless there is a time clock next to the door of your hobby space!
« Last Edit: October 12, 2019, 05:52:47 PM by Crabby » Logged

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« Reply #49 on: October 12, 2019, 08:41:52 PM »

Lurk,

I've used Crabby's tissue technique to size infill with good results, also have wrapped masking tape over the desired area, trimmed along stringer and former edges and used the tape cutout as a pattern for the infill piece.  A marginally faster approach was to cut a sheet of balsa crossgrain the width of the space between formers.  Once the width is a nice snug fit between the formers you can just hold it up to the bay you're about to infill with the edge of the sheet butted up against one stringer from the bay, trim that edge if required to match the angle of the stringer, then mark the points where the opposite stringer hits the sheet.  Trim off according to the marks, check the fit and sand if necessary to fine-tune, then glue it in.  With this approach I can infill a cowl area in an hour or so.

Enjoying watching you finagle the Stuka into shape!

Cheers,

Mike
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