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Author Topic: Lee’s Hobbies Bristol Scout for Kit Scale  (Read 634 times)
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Pete Fardell
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« on: September 08, 2019, 09:59:18 AM »

I need a new Kit Scale entry for Nijmegen, and have two months to build it. So, with some reluctance I’ve temporarily put my Dewoitine build to one side and have decided on the little Bristol Scout from Lee’s Hobbies. This choice was inspired mainly by Jon (Jack Plane)’s beautiful winning model and I shall be referring to his build thread a lot as I go. The other reason I chose it, apart from loving the Bristol Scout generally, is that it’ll give me a model to enter in Peanut too. This will be rubber powered.

Bits cut out and top wing nearly done...
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Russ Lister
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« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2019, 11:01:13 AM »

Look forward to the build, Pete ... Jon's is quite an act to follow. Yours will be rubber of course, so it will be very interesting in it's own right.
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Squirrelnet
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« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2019, 01:27:49 PM »

Looks good Pete.

 Are you using the kit wood or does the use of paper patterns mean you've upgraded to better quality balsa ?

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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2019, 01:46:28 PM »

Cheers Russ and Chris

It’s the kit wood which is actually really nice. The paper is already stuck to the sheet so you just cut through both to get a set of parts and then peel off the paper as you use each piece. It’s a very good system- no laser burns!
Much lighter and more delicate than my usual builds. The spar is basswood.
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OZPAF
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« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2019, 04:04:04 AM »

It looks like a good choice Pete. - nice light construction.

John
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2019, 09:36:25 AM »

Thanks John.
Both wings and tail surfaces now done. So far so good...
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2019, 04:03:38 PM »

On to the fuselage. All seems very small and fiddly, but enjoying this a lot.
(The gyro’s going to be a squeeze though.)
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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2019, 07:12:16 PM »

Gyro Smiley Attach it to the rubber motor and let it spin and you will have an aerobatic entry  Smiley

John
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2019, 01:35:22 AM »

Excellent choice Pete!

Re the Lee's Hobbies wood, I found this to be spot on in both the Scout and Halberstadt kits.

By the way, I'm sure you can fit the gyro somewhere behind the motor peg...  Grin
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2019, 04:00:15 AM »

Thanks Jon. I think I’m going to stop joking about gyros though as it’ll probably all seem a bit hollow when some tech-obsessed teenager wins Open Rubber for the tenth consecutive year with an untrimmed Spitfire, and walks past me and my wall damaged model sneering, “Get a gyro in it, grandad!”

Anyway, back to the subject in hand: like Larry R in another thread, I’m very attracted to the Bristol Scouts sporting  Union jacks* on the fuselage. To that end, I’ve decided to model mine as Scout number 1250. I want to have this as a Peanut as well as a KS entry, so had to choose an example I could document. I’ve 2 photos of 1250 which show the top wing and bottom wing roundels respectively. It does mean I’ll have to slightly modify the rear of the cockpit, which is slightly built up almost like a head rest on some of these RNAS Scouts.

*before any pedants tell me I should be saying Union flag, remember that these are Navy Scouts. What’s more some of them were quite literally flown off Navy ships!
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TheLurker
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« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2019, 06:56:00 AM »

Quote from: Pete Fardell
*before any pedants tell me I should be saying Union flag, remember that these are Navy Scouts. What’s more some of them were quite literally flown off Navy ships!
*Cough* Ahem.  If they are affixed to the fuselage of an aeroplane, rather than being flown from a jack staff then ... Smiley

Come to that, they're not even flags they are painted (doped?) representations of a flag.  So what does that make them? Emblems? Badges? Insignia?  An amusing little puzzle.

Oh, yeah.  Nearly forgot.  Nice aeroplane.  Smiley
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2019, 01:20:23 PM »

Well, leaving the flags/jacks/emblems aside for a minute, I wonder if Mr Jack Plane could give me a bit of insight into the covering process on his own splendid version of this kit? You got a lovely finish on yours, Jon, and if I achieve anything half as good I’ll be very happy. Did you preshrink the tissue? And what dope or other concoction did you apply? What particular worries me is the huge warp potential of these frail parts, which compared to anything I’ve built before seem about as sturdy as Fotherington-Tomas in a rugby scrum. The instructions say to cover everything first, then assemble, then apply 50% dope to the whole caboodle. This sounds like a recipe for disaster to me though.
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DHnut
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« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2019, 01:58:46 PM »

Pete
       May I add my little bit of advice based on my peanut experience. I now pre shrink the tissue before covering and use glue stick on tail surfaces. Also if you cover in a dry environment it will ensure the chance of warp due to humidity is lessened. For shrinking i steam until I get a nice taut surface and the apply two very thin coats of dope 70% thinner 30% dope. In my case I use Randolf nitrate. They also do a non shrink nitrate as well.
In the past on more robust structures I have used artists acrylic paint thinned in water to add colour with no detectable weight gain ( 0.1 gm graduation scales). Fike and Lacy models.
Also pin down the components for at least 2 days. on cold humid day things are as bit wrinkley but in summer everything usually remains straight. Hope that helps
Ricky
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ZK-AUD
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« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2019, 02:48:11 PM »

Pete for me the key thing is to get  the tissue so that the grain direction is properly aligned both sides of the the  structure - if you get them crossed you'll get a twist as the tissue shrinks more one way than the other

Also I recommend taping the tissue out flat and dropping the piece to be covered onto it - then cutting the piece out.  If you try to cover these light structures in mid air you risk 'thumbing' unwanted stresses into the part.

Also I like to be very particular when watershrinking to make sure both sides and indeed all areas of the same side are dampened equally - more water = more shrink so it's important not to introduce unequal stresses.  I generally mist the water on with my airbrush these days.

All the tension you need is achieved with the water so only use non-shrink dope and a light buff with 800 wet and dry between coats to remove any fuzziness.  

I like to make  covering jigs for wings and such out of hard 1/4 sheet with 1/8 square blocks  around the perimeter (say 8 or so for a wing the size you have there) so that upper and lower surfaces can be sprayed at the same time and then clamped down  (pins with a sliding block of 1/8 square)  with airflow above and below to dry equally.
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« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2019, 02:55:21 PM »

I should add that since I have been taking these steps I have not had warps in any flying surfaces no matter how hot it gets in the car or the hall or my own modelling shed in summer.  In summary I think it's about

1. Minimisation of unequal forces
2. Minimisation of tension

In that order of priority
 

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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2019, 03:07:00 PM »

Thank you both. Do you spray on the thinned dope as well as the water misting? Or just brush on?
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2019, 03:18:15 PM »

Pete, I'm hardly the world's most experienced or expert builder but, adding to both Ricky's and Mike's salient advice and ignoring the 'structions, this is what I did on both the Scout and the Halberstadt (worth maybe checking out that build thread as well):

Paper: I've never been a fan of paper as its too dent-able.  So for the areas of the cockpit and going forward I used 1/32 balsa instead, which under the KS rules is of course completely kosher.  For the rear decking I decided to use stringers instead (don't think the judges picked that one up!) otherwise I'd have gone for very thin sheeting (1/32 cut back by say a further third).

Tissue 1: Once I'd decided to power my Scout with CO2 (later converted to electric) I ceased to worry too much about weight and used antique-coloured domestic tissue from my stash as this seemed to match the illustration on the front of the Albatros Profile publication quite well.  For lightness, and in fact to probably better match the clear-doped originals when first manufactured before they yellowed due to UV over time (see photos in https://bristolscout.wordpress.com/ ), I'd be inclined to just use white Esaki.  If you have an Epson printer and do want to 'yellow' the tissue a bit (like I did to get the light blue for the Halberstadt), then you can experiment first with different hues and densities.  This would all be done before any pre-shrinking etc.

Tissue 2:  I always deal with each discrete component fully and completely and only assemble them at the very end.  For the fuselage I don't normally worry about pre-shrinking with steam, but for the flying surfaces I definitely do - which I do by taping sheets to very stiff cardboard frames.

Tissue 3:  I'm a great fan of glue-stick and PVA all round, but be aware that on the Scout the wing-ribs are under-cambered.  Therefore the best advice (courtesy of Andy Blackburn) is to use dope for applying tissue to the wings (I only ever use non-shrinking):  sanding-sealer on all contact surfaces (LE, TE, tips and top and bottom of both wings) and lightly cut back; then brush on neat dope to same and let dry;  then use Mike Stuart's method of laying on the tissue and soaking through with neat thinners to activate the dope; work in sections, immediately rubbing with finger-tip to get the adhesion to stick, especially down the full chord of the underside of the ribs.  By the way, as with any Peanut, covering always will make your previously frightingly fragile wing structures much stronger.

Tissue 4:  Despite pre-shrinking the tissue, I'd always be keen to give it a second light steaming to taughten it, then immediately pin it down to dry overnight (with whatever wash-out etc).

Doping:  I used to thin my non-shrinking dope 50% and give all surfaces a single coat.  Now (again courtesy of Andy) I've taken to giving all surfaces two coats of dope thinned to 25%.  A bit like building up thinner layers of paint when on re-decorating duties (like Lurk's pennance), this gives a much better finish - especially as any slightly stodgy or starved areas of doped tissue from the first coat are re-activated by the thinners and spread more evenly when applying the second coat.  Only ever ink on control-surface outlines after the final coat, else the thinners will make even permanent Fineliner ink run!

Markings:  I've so far tended to make markings from coloured tissue which I tape-down onto a flat surface covered with plastic film and pre-dope before cutting out, then use thinners to apply.  Note that white or very light tissue can be chalked to increase opacity if applying over darker surfaces.   However - if you became really handy with the printer - you could always plan in your Union Flag 'emblem' at the design stage!?

Jon
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2019, 05:22:40 PM »

Jon, thank you very much indeed. That is what I call a very full answer- please go to the top of the class and be excused homework for a week.
I also prefer balsa to paper and as a result of perusing your Scout thread I’d already opted for sanded 1/32 for the sheeted parts. I’d also already stringered the rear fuselage top. If the KS judges try and penalise me for that I shall simply cite Markovitz 2019 in my defence.

I will follow your covering advice carefully. What I’m most pleased about though is your printed tissue suggestion. I have done this before, for various markings and once for Fokker lozenges too, but not for any of my various natural linen finished models. It didn’t really occur to me till you said. Anyway, without thinking about it much I've just masking-taped a piece if white Esaki to a piece of white A4 and printed off this very promising sheet of Bristol Scout coloured tissue in the shade of beige in MS Paint’s preset pallet. Surely it’s not going to be a case of right first time is it?!
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2019, 02:36:18 AM »

Thanks Teach!

Yes, that beige does indeed look first-time perfect  Smiley
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« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2019, 04:29:07 AM »

...until you need a bit more and it won't match Angry
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