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Author Topic: Phantom #62  (Read 2285 times)
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bgrove
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« on: September 27, 2019, 01:42:46 PM »

Well, this build should keep me busy for awhile   Smiley

I’ve decided to build the Phantom #62.  It is a highly modified Mong racing biplane.  I’ve collected an assortment of photos and have started to create my plans.  I’ll make several copies today at work of what I have so far and then continue to draw and evolve them over time based on new info and photo’s I find.

My model will have a top wing span of ~16.75 inches and the length will be ~16 inches.

Brad
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lincoln
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« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2019, 07:32:13 PM »

Looks challenging but fun. I'm guessing you will need a significant amount of washout and a thin airfoil at the tips. What sort of construction are you using on the fuselage? I'd be tempted to carve, sand, and hollow out Highload 60/Plazamate. That would make you a heritic within the FAC, though.
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Don McLellan
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« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2019, 09:05:25 PM »

Very interesting choice Brad.  Looking forward to your build.
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bgrove
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« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2019, 04:07:27 PM »


I got some work done on my wings.  I'm not quite sure what I'm doing yet, I'm just building one step at time.  I have received a set of plans from another builder, so I might switch over to building from those.  They are quite nice.

Also, while looking for some old tax records I discovered I had this awesome book of 3-view drawings of air racers!!  I must have gotten this years ago before I started to scratch build and set it aside.  It will be a great resource.
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bgrove
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« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2019, 02:54:06 PM »

I made a bit of progress over the weekend.

I built a pair of wings per my drawings.  I think I will add a "turbulator" SP? to the upper leading edge of the top wing to help round it out.

I'm planning on building a second set of wings per plans that were sent to me from another builder in Argentina  Smiley Then decide which I'll use.  I have an employee who has a laser cutter at home and he offered to try to cut the ribs and fuselage former's for me per the plans (I got the .dxf cut files as well  Smiley )
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bgrove
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« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2019, 01:22:27 PM »

I did this to both lower wings.  Turned out well.
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Marco
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« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2019, 04:39:38 PM »

Brad,
what a nice subject !

Marco
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bgrove
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« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2019, 03:02:16 PM »

Molte grazie Marco!!

I built the horizontal stabilizer last night.   
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OZPAF
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« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2019, 09:50:07 PM »

Brad - I'm still trying to work out if it will be easier than the conceptual model of your last build - you certainly like a challenge :)Another interesting build - good luck with it.

John
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bgrove
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« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2019, 02:33:41 PM »

Thanks John.  Since I received a set of plans, I think this build will be easier, but still a tough subject to pull off.

Last night I cut and built the rudder, which reminds me a lot of the Gee Bee R1 rudder - very thick.  I did this to keep busy until my laser cut parts arrive.

And... drum roll please.... my guy at work brought in the laser cut parts this morning  Smiley  Wow.  So cool. So perfect.  He cut two sets of ribs for me as he said some would drop down out of the sheet once cut and would be sucked away by his exhaust unit.  He said it took about two hours with setup, testing and then cutting.

I will build a second set of wings with the new parts - the ribs are beautiful.  My only concern is that they are soooo light and fragile that I fear the wing will warp easily when shrinking the tissue.  Once built I will determine if any additional bracing is required.

Brad
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bgrove
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« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2019, 12:28:39 PM »

Quick question for everyone.

I will be covering the Phantom with "white" esaki tissue (my current plan).  This tissue is almost more transparent than white. 

What are the various techniques/ideas for cleaning up or covering the dark burnt edges that result from laser cutting?  If covered as is, the Phantom will look like a Zebra with dark stripes showing through the tissue.  I'm currently using a light file and lightly sanding the edges clean.  This gets me about 90% there.  I've "chalked" tissue in the past, but it's a pain.  Can I chalk the wood edges?  Use something like white out or white paint on the edges?  Or dare I think about my own color design for the Phantom?

I'd appreciate hearing what has worked and not worked for everyone.

Brad
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bgrove
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« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2019, 02:20:49 PM »

The second, top, laser cut wing is coming together.  It is much more difficult than I expected.  I thought having the pre-cut parts would make it easier, but it is so light and fragile that progress is slow.

The trailing edge of the ribs are really thin - not a full 1/16th to matching the TE stock.  I'm trying a slight angled groove in the TE and matching angle on the end of rib.  I'll probably have to use a small dab of cement to help hold it in addition to the thin CA. 

Once I take the wing off the board I'll have good sense of the total strength and rigidity. 
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Don McLellan
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« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2019, 03:03:33 PM »

Hi Brad,

Further to your question about covering with white Esaki, have you tried doing a test piece of chalked tissue?  I've used both General's charcoal and Prismacolor pastel with reasonable success, but haven't tried chalked white Esaki over slightly burnt balsa.  Very nice work by the bye.

Don
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bgrove
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« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2019, 02:34:07 PM »

Thanks Don:  I've chalked a plane before and didn't enjoy the process Sad  I'm not sure if it was Esaki or not.  It did help make it more 'white'.

Here are my two top wing options.

Laser cut wing weighs 5 grams, but I still need to shave down and shape the LE which might make my scale read 4 grams.  It is not as stiff as my cracked rib wing.

My cracked rib wing weighs 4 grams, but I need to cut in the rear circular cut out and add a turbulator to the front top.  It is stiffer overall than the laser cut wing and has a basswood single main spar.

I think the ending weight will be about the same for each.  I do need to find a scale that reads 10ths of grams (at least).  My scale is only grams.

I also need to add to both wings the mounting point for the outer wing strut and match that with points on the bottom wing.

My plan now is to cover both wings and work them in parallel.  I'm hoping that somewhere during the build the winner will reveal itself.

I'm going to proceed to building the fuselage (without building the laser cut lower wing) and I will definitely be using the laser cut parts  Smiley 
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bgrove
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« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2019, 04:53:45 PM »

I jumped into building the fuselage this weekend.  I've decided to add 1/16th reinforcements to the inside edges of the formers after crushing the rear fuselage  Sad

Now I'm working on the stringers.  It's a slow progress and sort of 'by feel' with all the curves.  I even broke out a thin Dremel grinding disk to help cut the groves - the formers are really fragile with the narrow, cross grain.
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« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2019, 10:41:18 PM »

Egads!  Fascinating  aircraft.

Best of luck with the model!
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Don McLellan
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« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2019, 11:38:22 PM »

Very, very cool work Brad!  Should the stringers be something like 3/32 x 1/16 to help strengthen the formers (although more difficult to bend in the 3/32 direction).
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bgrove
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« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2019, 03:00:36 PM »

Don:  I'm hoping that 1/16th square will work and strength will come from volume  Smiley  The fuselage is very curvy and needs to make some tight turns.

I reviewed some photo's that Charlie in Argentina sent me of his build, along with the plans and laser cut files, and noticed the additional interior angle braces in the fuselage.  I added those last night and they really stiffened up the fuselage nicely.  The vertical center line braces are just temporary, as well as the scrape canopy shaped brace.
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bgrove
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« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2019, 12:38:29 PM »

I'm continuing to add fuselage stringers.  Using my grinding disk in my drill really helps.  I then use a small file to slightly widen the groove and allows me a small up/down adjustment.

I need to start looking at how I'm going to attach the lower wings to the fuselage.  No simple solution is jumping out at me on this one as of yet.
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BG
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« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2019, 03:29:17 PM »

Be careful with "The Air Racer" .... many of the drawings are only vaguely accurate. Double and triple check them before you build from them. Look at Mr Smoothie for example. Compare that drawing with the excellent drawing that was published in aeromodeller..... not great
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« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2019, 04:33:42 PM »

Quote
I need to start looking at how I'm going to attach the lower wings to the fuselage.  No simple solution is jumping out at me on this one as of yet.

What about attaching the lower wings as two separate halves and gluing flat plates to the sides of the fuselage to receive the wings.  I typically don't prefer this method because the wing joint doesn't seem as strong but since this is a biplane, you can use the top wing to support the bottom wing.

Marlin
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bgrove
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« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2019, 06:07:12 PM »

Thanks for the tip Marlin.  I'm going to do a version of just that.  I have to admit, however, I stood at my bench last night trying to figure out what my plan is and made little progress.  I'm feeling close, so confidence is high.

I did remove a piece of center top to create a slot for the center upper wing support.  I'll create a similar slot on the bottom of the top wing.  Fuselage is very 'curvy' with all the stringers  Smiley
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bgrove
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« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2019, 06:41:25 PM »

I made an angled spar last night that will serve as my main attachment and alignment point for the lower wings.  It's 1/64th ply and will have 1/16 balsa on each side with alternate grain direction.  This should be fairly easy to align and attach to the former.
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Dan Snow
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« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2019, 07:13:46 AM »

Amazing work!
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bgrove
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« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2019, 02:51:24 PM »

Thanks Dan  Smiley

Lots of fiddling and fitting last night.  It's getting close  Smiley

I still need to get the lower wing tips down.  They are about 1/4 inch to high based on Charlie's plans which show a 7/8 height at the tip.  I'm going to set the tips about 1/2 at the tip.  Once I get the lower wing position set, I'll align the top wing and make the inter wing strut attachment points vertically aligned.

I see lots of areas that I will infill with some light 1/6 sheet around the fuselage attachment point.  I always try to think ahead and give myself good, flat surfaces to my tissue attachment surfaces.
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