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DavidJP
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« on: October 09, 2019, 09:57:39 AM »

I admit I am not a supporter of political correctness nor this new safetiism etc. but I thought this card somewhat in bad taste - all be it unintentionally and quite probably the designer was of tender years and unaware of the war etc.  It was seen in a Cathedral and I mentioned it to an assistant who just could not grasp the point I was making nor the significance of a silhouette of a He111 - which there is no doubt is what is shown.

It seems totally incompatible with the thinking of todays world - that almost anything can be interpreted as offensive etc. depending on your bias.
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Crabby
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« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2019, 10:34:25 AM »

For me the most vulgar aircraft shape is the Stuka. Anything machine having to do with killing people I see as vulgar and offensive. Still, older people who have lived through wars, should probably develop some thick skin when it comes to dealing with juvenile offenses such as this card. If you ever meet the designer of the card you could complement the design, then educate him/her on the symbology those planes have for older Brits. When I was younger a plane wasn't a plane unless it was loaded up explosives and carried a swastika on the tail. It took a lifetime so far to develop a reluctance toward such things. As you well know this isn't a one way street... Dresden survivors (?) Hiroshima survivors (?) Nagasaki survivors(?).... its all the same. Humans as a species really do suck. (except the really young ones) (and hot babes!)  Sad Angry Smiley Cheesy Grin
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Konrad
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« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2019, 10:46:23 AM »

Not sure I follow. Are you concerned that the aircraft were German/Nazi.  Or that the card has any reference to the military industrial complex that is focused on the destructive nature of our endeavorers.

As I don't see a swastika I don't see the association with ultra right leaning nationalists of any nation. I'd be more upset if the planes were B29 . Like Crabby said we humans really do suck.

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Hot Babes, all the way. Not that I'd know anything about those with my fat arse and thin wallet!
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Starduster
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« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2019, 11:25:03 AM »

I do understand your concern, and being sold in a cathedral gift shop...

But I'd bet money that if you asked 100 random people, less than 2 would have any idea that those are Luftwaffe airplanes. In fact, id bet that if you asked the designer, he\she didn't know, either. It's just clip art of an airplane.

Reminds me of when we first moved to Connecticut, there is a "soft rock" radio station that a lot of business play. Their call letters are WRCH. The first time I heard it, I had to listen again, and yup, that's the call letters...

Being an old-school engineer, I think its pretty funny that the station has those call letters, but I fully understand how the term is highly offensive .
But, again, if I were to ask 100 people, I'd guess that maybe 1 would know the acronym.
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« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2019, 12:01:49 PM »

Back in 60's I modeled a  Yak 9, with big red Russian stars on the wings. And was worried about some flack I might take. There was that whole the cold war "thing", going on.  Yet, later, when I imagined I was part of the rebellious youth "surf" crowd, I painted a huge swastika on the bottom of my skim boards, and didn't give hoot what people thought. In both cases nobody said anything, except 'well done". Today, I'm not sure of anything except that somebody is likely going to be mad at me for making the wrong hand gesture or possibly saying the wrong thing. Or even maybe what's on the front of my hat or T-shirt?  It's CRAZY these days. And the rules are changing so fast, who can keep up?

With a long interest in aviation history, I do tend to get a bit excited about the prospect of ANYONE, besides myself, recognizing such an obscure aircraft outline, especially in such a random application as card art, at church! Don't know that I'd be offended by the German war connection, but could understand how some might.  In the big picture, there are simply much greater things to worry about.

I suppose my naiveite is showing, but what does WRCH mean?
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Starduster
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« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2019, 12:24:46 PM »


I suppose my naiveite is showing, but what does WRCH mean?


Google it without the 'W' and it's not Royal Children's Hospital. Try Urban Dictionary
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« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2019, 12:48:29 PM »

I can see your point, David ... especially in the curious context.
I'm a bit of an old rocker though and am used to the Motorhead, "bomber" style imagery and more. It's not a problem for me, though I prefer to see such things in a historical context.
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TheLurker
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« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2019, 04:34:02 PM »

I think the point above about it just being a piece of clip-art is probably the explanation.  Leaving aside what we know of the type's use, it is a pleasing shape and the old-fashioned look of it matches the style of the card.  It is just unfortunate that to most of us it looks like a bomber stream rather than a (stylised) team aerobatic display.

Quote from: charlieman
I do tend to get a bit excited about the prospect of ANYONE, besides myself, recognizing such an obscure aircraft outline...
Well a fragment of conversation I overheard in the Flight Gallery of the Science Museum (London) about 10 years ago will really depress you.  Teenage (14 ish?) lad No. 1 to teenage lad No. 2 both looking at the Hurricane and the Spitfire, "I can never tell the difference between a Spitfire and a Hurricane."  I was stunned.  When I was that age anyof my contemporaries, even those not especially interested in aeroplanes, would have known which was which.
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lincoln
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« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2019, 04:56:50 PM »

Gotta admit I'd be a bit bummed to get a birthday card like this. Would much rather have Culver Darts, Gee Bee QEDs or Pander S-4s.

From what I've seen, 90 percent of the time, so called "political correctness" is an attempt to avoid oblivious rudeness.
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bjrn
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« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2019, 06:00:18 PM »

I would hope that it was not Coventry Cathedral which was selling the card. I too think it in bad taste.
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DHnut
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« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2019, 06:28:57 PM »

I also think it is in bad taste but probably born out of ignorance by staff who have little knowledge of things technical or historic. The wares in these shops that now seem to be a part of anything related to tourism are almost without exception are tacky and poor value. I rarely buy from these establishments and that is probably the best form of protest.
Ricky
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DavidJP
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« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2019, 05:51:19 AM »

Thank you. all. Your replies in themselves are interesting, and a little revealing in some cases.

As I said almost certainly it was an innocent mistake by a naive person.  But I do suspect the silhouettes would have been lifted from a military journal of some sort.   The sources otherwise are pretty few.

I was not offended by the card, and nor is it a “problem”. I am more curious as it is surely incompatible with todays thinking, albeit such thinking muddled and bizarre.  I just can’t take seriously some one who 20 or 30 years after the alleged incident complains about a hand on the knee etc.

Many younger Germans do appear me to be sensitive about the War. There the Swastika is banned in all respects I understand.  In the reverse form - when it was a symbol of good luck etc. it appears on tombstones and memorials here.

I think Ricky in principle I agree with you  - I certainly wouldn’t buy such a card to send to anyone.  But then Churches as a whole here are hard pressed for money so I don’t blame them for selling wares.

Much inaccuracy, due to the enthusiasm to re write history, is preached in this Country particularly in some schools about the Allies conduct during the War - particularly in relation to saturation bombing and Dresden for example.

I lived through the War and my formative years were in the immediate aftermath.  I don’t think I hold any grudges and accept that in War there really is no rule book.  It happened - It was a bad thing but it was people who started it.   We should respect those who took part.

In short it is a shame that so many people seem unaware of what I see is significant in the artwork yet selectively campaign in respect of other like events re- sometimes re -writing history in the process.

No it was not Coventry brjn but I feel it could have been! .  It is a bit much to expect most younger people today to be aware.

I remember not long after I started the Grammar School (very early 50’s) there was am Italian chap whose family had been here for probably two or three generations. I made some crack about the Italians not knowing what side they were on and being good at running backwards.  He did not react that much but  later I did feel pretty rotten about it and apologised.  I remember too thinking how awful if it was for the Germans having to live as they did for a while and although our lot was a bit hard, nothing like theirs.  I suppose I had the advantage  of knowing it was happening and it was not “history”.   
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