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Author Topic: Phantom Flash tips and tricks  (Read 1269 times)
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ram
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« on: November 27, 2017, 10:49:52 AM »

I know I saw somewhere on the web a list of changes to make to the Phantom Flash to make it more flyable, but I can't find them anywhere.  It had to do with the rear hook placement, thrust button/hanger, and wing mount?  Maybe even talked about incidence and CG?  Planning on building one to get in on the fun.  I did find some references to wire sizes (.015) and prop shaving/pitching.  Assuming(?!) wood sizes need to remain the same and laminating tips not allowed.  What about sliced ribs?

Rey
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Bredehoft
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« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2017, 11:50:01 AM »

Hi,

For FAC Competition, the Phantom Flash needs to be built PER PLAN (no laminating, no sliced ribs, no changing wood sizes, no changing the wing mount parts, etc.)

The prop (for FAC) MUST be a one-piece plastic prop of no more than 6" in diameter.  This eliminates (most) homemade props and the Ikara indoor props.  You CAN do many things to the one-piece plastic props, such as shaving/ scraping, re-pitching, even starting with a larger prop and trimming it to 6".

You can pretty much do whatever you want to the nose button, but you have to build the nose per plan. 

For indoor, you should build it light.  I think the longest I have seen fly is over 3 minutes and I know that Joshua Finn's wife, Hope, has flown over 4 minutes indoors.

For outdoor, you might want to sacrifice some weight in favor of strength in the wing LE and TE and the motor stick.  If you go with 3/32" rubber, you will probably bend the motor stick, affecting all kinds of settings.

The PF is a great flyer.  Add some downthrust, get it to circle in the direction you like, and if you are flying outdoors, be prepared to lose them - they fly away regularly.  I am on my 9th in 5 years and really should get onto building #10.

Things I do (right or wrong):

Build in down thrust and a little right side thrust.
Keep the wing forward as far as I can.  This makes the take more effective.
Load up a motor and glide test.  Sometimes I shim the back of the wing.  I look for a stable glide with just a touch of stall.
Strip a motor that will fly it at these settings, if flying indoors.
I have successfully (won) with a loop of 1/16" indoors and outdoors, but usually more - up to a loop of 3/32" outdoors.

--george
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aardvark_bill
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« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2017, 02:46:33 PM »

Rey,
I remember talking to Hope Finn about her model after she flew at West Baden and the take-away was "build it light" and "use a long motor".  Mine was 3 grams or so and I felt good about a 2:43... I was using a 16" loop of rubber that was about 0.05 (sorry I haven't converted to weight per inch yet).  I don't know what motor she was using but she flew a LONG time - over 3:40.
Most of the PF flyers that I fly with indoors are outdoor flyers and they seem to put really long, heavy rubber on their planes even indoors.  I recall some head-shaking at the National Building Museum when I was flying a 16" loop of the aforementioned 0.05 rubber against braided 24" loops of 3/32".  Landed on the 4th floor balcony a bit past 2:00. 
I'm planning to build a new one for Kent.  I may trim this one to circle to the right since I have trouble keeping the left wing up even with washin and the circle opens up when the power is winds down.
Billy
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ram
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« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2017, 10:13:40 AM »

Thanks George and Bill,

Do you know if the rear hook can be moved forward?  Once the CG is found can the wing be glued to the fuselage thereby eliminating the rubber band?

Rey
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Bredehoft
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« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2017, 10:33:01 AM »

In my opinion (and as sometime-CD for the Cloudbusters), yes - you can move the motor peg and yes, you can glue the wing (no one I know really cares about sticking to the details that tightly).

--george
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dslusarc
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« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2017, 11:31:39 AM »

Rey,

My PF has rear hook forward a little and wing is glued. You can always cut some .020 rubber , or thinner, for the rubber bands. Scrape the prop way down, you can get one well under 3 grams ready to fly. I am tempted to make a new one as mine is covered in Esaki, so a little weight can he saved with Gampi tissue. The pain is hooking up the rubber due to the nose gear legs etc getting in the way.

My best Rantoul time was 3:44

Don
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aardvark_bill
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« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2017, 01:25:49 PM »

Don - Wow...
Exactly how much less than 3 grams is "well under"?
Again, wow.
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dslusarc
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« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2017, 06:50:08 PM »

That is my psychological warfare tactic:-) But seriously, around 2.5gr is doable with some care Grin But the required effort from ~3 gram to 2.5gr is considerably more :-)
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ram
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« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2017, 01:18:27 PM »

I'll have to say that after spending so much time scraping the 6" Peck plastic prop I've found my least favorite indoor thing to do!!!  I could have built several sheet wood props with less time and effort (and mess).

Rey
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Ace Dugan
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« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2017, 05:21:56 PM »

To scrape a prop, I use the end of a common hacksaw blade.  It's about the right hardness steel and the rounded shape is good.  Sharpen it with a file held 90 degrees to the end (perpendicular) like you would sharpen a wood scraper.  Hold it at about a 45 degree angle and scrape away.  It cuts pretty fast and I can scrape a prop in 20 or 30 minutes.  Cheers...
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dslusarc
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« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2017, 08:04:28 PM »

Rey,

I use a cabinet scraper.
https://www.amazon.com/Crown-3763-Cabinet-Scraper-Gooseneck/dp/B00EC9ATLK

Don
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ram
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« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2017, 08:55:35 PM »

Great scraper ideas!  Thanks.  I was using a sharp pocket knife blade.

Rey
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dslusarc
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« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2017, 10:48:39 PM »

Wayne Johnson got me onto the cabinet scraper method. He had all his SO students use them back in the day. Wayne even sold his own version when he was selling winders and such, his was essentially a rectangle with a different radius in each corner. 

Don
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ZK-AUD
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« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2017, 08:23:19 AM »

I use a whole Stanley knife blade used out of the handle.  works really well.  I take over 50% of the weight of the prop off and find this one of the most satisfying and effective interventions you can do
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Art356A
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« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2017, 11:51:19 AM »

I came to the hobby in my old age, so I only had a few years of PF flying with a balsa prop as the designer intended. The PF's were so much more fun when they flew more slowly. And wall hits were so much more survivable for the undercarriage. Whose bright idea was it to make rocket ships out of them, and can that ever be reversed? I can make five usable balsa props in the time it would take to scrape down a plastic one.

art.
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My arms are so weak, it's like that pushup I did last year was a total waste.
ram
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« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2017, 12:07:04 PM »

Another Phantom Flash question:  The plans say to cover the top only on the wing and stab.  The fin, however, has a note to cover both sides.  Is this necessary?  I'd like to cover just one side to promote the turn.

Rey
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dslusarc
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« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2017, 12:29:25 PM »

Rey,

I have both sides covered.

Don
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ram
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« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2017, 12:56:07 PM »

Rey,

I have both sides covered.

Don

Then so shall I!!!

What do you do with the nose bearing area?

Rey
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dslusarc
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« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2017, 01:20:35 PM »

Made a wooden button approx 1/8 diameter  with hypo tube in it.
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Bredehoft
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« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2017, 01:29:21 PM »

or use a small white Peck nose button.  1/32" prop shaft size.  Although Don may use a smaller prop shaft.

--george
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AAdamisin
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« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2020, 08:16:52 PM »

I flew with the Cloudbusters last week and had a blast with Phantom Flash.  Great flying model.  Mine turned out at 4 grams.  I used a scrapped Peck 6in prop.  I printed tissue and chose the red.  It showed up well while flying near the rafters. 

Best time was 2:25.  Was able to max out (3) times and then go to a flyoff.  Of course, the flyoff time was 2:17.  I used a 1/16" x 18in loop.  I want to try a 22in loop of 0.045" to control the climb and the decent.  Rubber ran out of winds at about 40ft altitude so it started a gentle stall in.

Enjoy,

https://youtu.be/3GTu5DAGbRQ


Archie Adamisin
Burlington, KY
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