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Author Topic: Esaki Tissue - still the same?  (Read 783 times)
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mick66
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« on: November 08, 2019, 03:43:52 PM »

Hi

Anyone had any issues with Esaki tissue lately.  Just bought a bunch of white from MikeWoodhouse and the sheets don't feel the same as existing stock.  90% the same but definitely not as shiny on the shiny side.  In fact almost impossible to tell which is the shiny side.  Both dull.

Anyone had any issues?

Cheers

Mike
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charlieman
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« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2019, 07:36:01 PM »

Didn't get the memo???
https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=24445.0
According to that thread, esaki tissue, along with all other esaki model products, has gone belly up.
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mick66
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« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2019, 01:09:25 AM »

Hahah ... yes ... I saw that just after I'd posted mine.

Specifically, I was wondering if anyone in the U.K. Has used the 'Esaki' that FreeflightSupplies are now supplying.  I bought £50 worth the other day to replenish my stocks before I knew about the issue with Esaki.

I haven't used it yet but it's definitely not 100% the stuff I'm used to as far as immediate looks go.  MikeW explained he'd been having issues dealing with the company but didn't say they'd gone belly up per se.

I hope this isn't 'queer' Esaki as it wasn't 'queer' money I used to buy it.

Cheers

Mike

PS that's 'queer' in the Lewis Carroll sense and not the rainbow one.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 02:13:02 AM by mick66 » Logged
billdennis747
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« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2019, 04:24:08 AM »

How does the weight compare?
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mick66
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« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2019, 06:17:11 AM »

Hi

Same weight ... same grain, just not quite as shiney on the shiney side.  Enough so that you think, after years of using Esaki ... 'That doesn't look right'.  It's not very shiney at all.

Acid test is to use it I guess.  But I was just replenishing stock to be honest ... against the day when there might not be any Esaki left!  My worry being I always applied shiney side down and it never really adhered very well the other way round.

Surprised no-ones noticed unless it's just me being overly analytical.
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charlieman
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« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2019, 12:23:13 PM »

Bill Hannan once wrote "one man's 'superfine' is another's 'sheet iron'...", in specific reference to tissue choice/use.

Me? I've never quite understood the snobbery,mystique and brew-ha-haw  that seems to have grown up around "esaki", which is actually a brand name of several modeling products and not a single type of tissue.

I'm still surprised it's made such an impact on such a minority of the shrinking aeromodelling world.

 I too had hoarded    (although I prefer "prudently set aside" ) premium  balsa and various tissues because they were extremely hard to find, back in 1970's thru to the 90's).  I have all kinds and brands of model covering, including some  Esaki (not tissue!). I suspect there may even be some Esaki tissue in my stash,, as well but I just can't rationalize going all weak in the knees  (it could be the be-all, end-all of tissues, but unless it applies itself, etc...??)...over it.

I understand the very important, almost cosmic question about shiney side  "in or out", because I had the exact same question, back in 1961, when I was eleven, when I first became aware of the difference between so-called "Japanese tissue" and "domestic". However, intervening years have suggested  that it doesn't really matter. After a few coats of dope, it's all shines just about  the same. Personally, I choose shiney side out under the assumption that shinny is easier to seal, but there's no data I know of to bolster that claim. It's a habit, not a science. Despite many mistaken applications, it's not a question even approaching cosmic import.

Perhaps Flying Aces should implement a rule that only "esaki"  may be used on models in their traditional themed competitions? Roll Eyes

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mick66
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« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2019, 12:38:37 PM »

Fair enough  Smiley
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USch
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« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2019, 04:08:37 PM »

As soon as I knew about the Esaki trouble I got what I thought I will need in the remaining life Cheesy
All coloured sheets, no white, like good visibility! Supplier MikeW as usual.
After reading Mick66's remarks I immediately checked my  stock and I cannot find any difference between newer or older sheets  Roll Eyes

Actually I always use shiny side out, just looks better to me. And as in the last three years I covered all models with paper over mylar it has a bit more influence. Because I give only 2-3 coats of much diluted dope, just enough to avoid slackening in early morning air.

But charlieman is right, it's more a habit than a real need.

Urs
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mick66
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« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2019, 01:52:20 AM »

Hi

I bought coloured tissue at same time.  Yes, the coloured tissue is just the same as usual.  It was specifically the white.

I guess we've all got our ways and what works for us.  I've always had more trouble getting tissue to stick shiney side out.  Hopefully it's not going to be an issue but ...
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2019, 02:09:02 AM »

I stocked up on white Esaki from SAMs at Old Warden a while back. You’re right- it’s suddenly harder to tell which side is the shiny one. I don’t mind as it just means when I accidentally apply a piece a different way up to the rest it matters less.
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billdennis747
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« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2019, 03:45:16 AM »

The alternative for white is Martin Dilly's tissue. It has a more pronounced grain and no wet strength, and cheaper too, but you have to get hold of it at meetings.
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mick66
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« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2019, 08:31:12 AM »

Hello

Just used this latest white Esaki for the first time.  It's utter [email protected]  It has zero and I mean zero wet strength.  Just starts pulling away and tearing as soon as you try to move it, and that's wet on Mylar.

I guess the shiny side is some kind coating of binding that holds it all together.  It's literally like using wet Andrex.  And bog roll is a dam sight cheaper  Cry
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kkphantom
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« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2019, 09:30:41 AM »

I don't know where you got it but if it behaves the way you describe it certainly isn't Esaki jap tissue.
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mick66
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« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2019, 09:50:01 AM »

Hi

Your not wrong there ... and I've got genuine Esaki here as well and they aren't playing the same.  And before any one starts going on about Esaki being a generic name for a whole range of tissues ... when we talk about Esaki or Jap tissue to be politically incorrect, here in the UK, we know exactly what kind of tissue we are talking about.  

If I buy a sheet of 'Esaki' or 'Jap', I know what I'm expecting ... and this ain't it.
I don't give a rats [email protected]@ if it's from the Esaki company ... it's not 'Esaki'.

And it's not a case of being 'snooty' or 'fashionable' either ... it's tissue paper I know how to use and know how to get good results with.  That's all I care about.  This stuff is useless for wet covering over Mylar.

Caveat emptor I suppose!   Sad

Anyway ... I'm sure there are bigger things  to worry about ... but I can think of any right now!





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charlieman
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« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2019, 02:22:38 PM »

"AHHHHH... the good ol' days.  I can remember, way back about 8-10 monthsI think it was.  We used  REAL esaki tissue, then.  You know the real deal good stuff. It was so good all you had to do was get wet, and  it practically applied itself.? Notthis nose rag reject stuff we have to use now....Yep, them was the days when we built real stick and tissue models."
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billdennis747
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« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2019, 02:58:31 PM »

Mick, the 'proper' Esaki which, yes, we know well and was supplied in the UK by Mike Woodhouse and Flitehook was Esaki Lite Flite. I see FFS still advertises it as such but it evidently isn't. I just checked some tissue I got from SAMS and that has no wet strength either. If you have any Lite Flite, that's all you're likely to get.
I don't cover wet often so it isn't a problem. When J O'D was describing  to me how to apply over mylar, I think he used cellulose thinners, not water.
If white tissue with no wet strength is acceptable, Dilly tissue is the alternative. I don't see the point in paying big money for what is evidently ordinary stuff.
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charlieman
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« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2019, 09:37:07 PM »

Now, I've not tried it with 'domestic' grades, but Japanese tissue, as sold by Sig in fine and superfine wts. can be applied wet IF you use 70% isopropyl alcohol as the wetting agent. It dosnt, apparently stretch as well as that other type but it does conform somewhat around the odd compound curve. Straight water will make it handle like wilted spinach but the water content of alcohol could probably be played with.  there is also the technique where the tissue is applied dry, but wetted on the model, using a soft brush (see the tips sections of https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/details.php?image_id=8427 )

If you can't get "esaki", are gonna quit?
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lincoln
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« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2019, 02:03:03 AM »

I don't understand why avoiding dead weight and preferring material that's easier to apply makes one a snob.
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mick66
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« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2019, 02:14:07 AM »

Hi guys

Lol ... not sure what your trying to get at charlieman.  It's nothing to do with snobbery, nostalgia or anything like that.  It's just easier to apply and get a good finish full stop.  It's not the end of the world but it is a major pain in the [email protected]@.  In reality, this thread is only relevant to those who like using lightweight Esaki wet Smiley

Just don't want anyone else to get mugged off.

Will try with thinners Bill.
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Viperkite
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« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2019, 05:29:19 AM »

I know of a couple of model shops that have old stock in. I wonder if I should buy it up while I have chance.
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