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Author Topic: Rudder Only RC  (Read 675 times)
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crashcaley
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« on: November 16, 2019, 08:54:53 PM »

Hi Everyone,  I really didn't think I would be back to the Forum, but circumstance have driven me back to the hobby.  First, I had open heart surgery this past June.  Then next, in October, I lost my transportation when a driver failed to stop at a stop light on the highway.  So I am without transportation, and pretty much living a very boring life.  That means I need to resurrect a hobby or two that won't cost too much, and that can be done basically out my back door.

Since I cannot go chasing free flight airplanes any distance, and my flying area is about 10 acres, with tons of bushes covering the landscape, I need to think about how to do rubber powered rudder only flying.  That means I need to find something I can use with my Spectrum 7 transmitter.  I need a receiver, servo and battery, that are light enough for P-30's.  I figured that I should be able to fly 30-35 inch wingspan models in the area I have, as long as I can guide them back towards where I launched from, and hopefully hit a clear area for landing.

Does anyone have a clue as to what kind of equipment I can use?  I found the website that seems to carry some pretty low weight RC gear, but just not certain how reliable it is.  https://www.banggood.com/Wholesale-RC-Parts-c-8768.html  I figure that with a P-30, I probably will have to keep the additional weight down below 10 grams, if I want any flights over a minute.

I hope someone has experience with single channel RC setups.

CaleyAnn
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What's stall speed?  Undecided
Flyguy
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« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2019, 01:29:35 AM »

Hi CaleyAnn, nice that you are back, I hope you are feeling better. I've been flying RC rubber for about 8 years in a 1.3 acre field here in Manhattan, usually around the 30 something inch range, you can see a lot of oldtimers (and P30's, Wakes, Coupes) flying (with RC rudder) on my website. Here's where I show some equipment choices that I've been using for many years without problems: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V-bxTQrTdQ , adds 6-8 grams and is full range, and I'm using a Spectrum (5) transmitter. Of course, there are other possibilities as well, but I've used this system on dozens of planes. You mention P30, a really fun category, here's a flight of my RC rubber P30, it can easily do several minutes, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG1luctvUEQ . You can fly in really small fields with rudder RC assist, I think you'll like it!

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crashcaley
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« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2019, 05:02:20 AM »

Hi FlyGuy,  Thanks for the info.  It has been a few years since I watched those YouTube videos, never realizing those videos were yours.  I remember being fascinated by those videos, and how good your models flew with the tiny RC gear.

Hopefully the components you mentioned in your video are still available.  Looks like I will be investing in several sets.

Do you have the tail section glued down to the fuselage, or is it removable for transportation?  I do have a very small park here in 29 Palms that I can use, that has bus service to and from near my home.  CaleyAnn
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What's stall speed?  Undecided
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« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2019, 11:53:31 AM »

Good to 'see' you back here, Caley  !
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crashcaley
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« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2019, 12:17:13 PM »

Thanks Jim,  I hope I can stay with it.  It still takes me about half a year to build one model.
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Flyguy
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« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2019, 02:02:13 PM »

Hi FlyGuy,  Thanks for the info.  It has been a few years since I watched those YouTube videos, never realizing those videos were yours.  I remember being fascinated by those videos, and how good your models flew with the tiny RC gear.

Hopefully the components you mentioned in your video are still available.  Looks like I will be investing in several sets.

Do you have the tail section glued down to the fuselage, or is it removable for transportation?  I do have a very small park here in 29 Palms that I can use, that has bus service to and from near my home.  CaleyAnn


The Lemon receiver and hobbyking servos are both still available and very inexpensive (<$20 for both). For the P30, the tail comes off so you can get a few of them in a fairly small box, good for the bus. For the oldtimers I usually leave them on if they are in the 30" span range, but it does make the box bigger, for the larger ones, I make the stab removable. I take a bus to the armory for indoor flying, the box is 14 x 25 x 6, just fits into the overhead compartment and it's big enough that I can leave the stabs on.

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crashcaley
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« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2019, 08:26:06 PM »

I've been searching high and low for these components, and apparently I still do not know how to Google to find things.  The few things I have located are out of stock, or discontinued.

Is it possible for you to post the links here so I have something to follow.  Sorry, but I am just not good at locating things.  CaleyAnn
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Flyguy
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« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2019, 10:59:53 PM »

OK, some of the links are at the website, here's the lemon receiver: https://www.lemon-rx.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=102

I show a few options in the video for the servo, here's one, the 282a HK servo: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/hk-282a-single-screw-ultra-micro-servo-2g-0-2kg-0-08sec.html

The servo has a 1.25 jst plug, I cut that off and replaced it with a 1.5 mm plug, that's what goes into the receiver. You can see the modified plug and connectors in the video, you need some 1.5mm jst plugs for the servo and batter to plug into the receiver, usually you can find them on ebay or amazon.

Here's a battery: https://www.ebay.com/p/2254473125   You just need one battery, this 70 mAh will give you at least 40 minutes 'on' time (in my experience). They used to have a 30 mAh that's nice and light, but I haven't seen them lately. You also need some plugs for the battery, I usually search for a six plug charger (for eflite batteries), then you have 6 plugs. Would be nice to find a battery comparable in weight, 1.4 grams, to the old eflite 30 mAh if anyone knows?

Of course you can shop around for better prices, though the stuff is pretty inexpensive. You also need a lipo battery charger, I have a few, but I usually use the eflite celectra 4 port charger, but the cheaper ones are fine as well, even the USB charger is fine.

I think that's everything you need to get you going, have fun! Larry


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crashcaley
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« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2019, 12:44:11 AM »

Larry,  Believe it or not, I never found the radio, even though I went onto that website.  I still have never figured out how I can't locate something on my own.  I think it is lack of computer lingua.  I even used the same name you used, and still didn't find it.  I did find the servo, but the connectors for that and batteries were confusing.  There are at least three different of those little connectors, and I couldn't figure out which ones, even with your list, as I kept coming up with the different types.  I think that's one reason I didn't pursue things a few years ago.  I just couldn't figure out those little plugs.  CaleyAnn
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What's stall speed?  Undecided
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« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2019, 03:20:04 AM »

Hi Caley, nice to see you back Smiley

I use banggood and find them very reliable as a seller. I use these little receivers with a Spectrum dx6i: https://m.banggood.com/CM421-2_4G-4CH-Full-Range-DSM2-Compatible-Receiver-For-Radio-Transmitter-p-1015760.html
In small radio models. They are about 2.7g but if you desolder and the pins and remove the heat shrink 1.1g is achievable. Placed correctly in the model they are very good on range (like 400 meters altitude!)

Just make sure your radio can handle the older DSM2 protocol (DSMX is now the standard but most transmitters will still have DSM2.)

Banggood do some even smaller receivers but I'm not sure if the range will be as good - they are aimed at indoors. They also do some small Lipos - you don't need much capacity for a small rudder only model, 100mAh would be plenty.

Jonathan
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« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2019, 04:33:30 AM »

Good to see you back on the forum Caley  Smiley

I'll be following your progress ... it's something I would like to try too.
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« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2019, 10:31:30 AM »

Caley!  So good to see that you are back with us.  Sorry about your health issues but we are all getting to the age where it becomes a factor.  I have thought about 1 channel rc rubber and even started one a few years ago.  It has even been relegated to a shelf.  Hope your life will continue to get better.
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crashcaley
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« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2019, 08:25:45 PM »

FlyGuy,  I've watched several videos of your, and it seems for the most part, you try to get as much surface area of the vertical stab to move as possible.  Is that necessary?  Could you just hinge half the V stab like RC models and still get the model to turn?  I am not as limited as you are by structures.  My main goal is to be able to steer the model back my way, and hopefully into a fairly clear area.  The problem where I live is we have native growing bushes all over the landscape.  It's nearly impossible to avoid running into one of those

Right now I am scratch building another Souper 30 P-30 for my first RC rudder assist model.  It was the only P-30 model I have a plan for that has a pylon for putting the RC bits in.  I am going to try your method of pull-pull.  I've done that with several actual RC models, and control was very good.

I am still waiting on getting all my stuff from China.  It takes quite some time to get here.  I am still missing my "Smurfos"  :-)
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« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2019, 06:40:41 PM »

it's good to see you back here Caley. Good luck with your Souper P30. hope you are well and truly getting on top of your health problems.

Cheers and Merry Christmas

John
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crashcaley
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« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2019, 07:24:53 PM »

Thanks Everyone for the nice welcome back.  I also hope my health problems are over with for some time.  Seems this past five years I have been in and out for this or that.

I am building, but my problem is still a way to get to somewhere that I can do glide testing, and very low powered flights.  I  live in the high desert, so grass is something I've heard of, but rarely have seen.  There are two parks in the city, but it is difficult getting to them, as the bus system limits how much you can carry aboard the bus.  I'll have to figure a way of packing my stooge, winders, rubber, and fiddly bits, as well as one model in one box. 

I may have to design a stooge that I can somehow clamp down to a picnic table.  That would solve the bulk problem.  Anyone ever designed and built such a thing.  Definitely would like to see a picture of it.  Caley
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« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2019, 09:48:17 PM »

FlyGuy,  I've watched several videos of your, and it seems for the most part, you try to get as much surface area of the vertical stab to move as possible.  Is that necessary?  Could you just hinge half the V stab like RC models and still get the model to turn?

Hi Caley - no it's not necessary, I did that in the P30, but in most of the oldtimers I make the rudder about 1/3 of the full fin size, the one in the Lanzo video is probably a good example.

Right now I am scratch building another Souper 30 P-30 for my first RC rudder assist model.  It was the only P-30 model I have a plan for that has a pylon for putting the RC bits in.  I am going to try your method of pull-pull.  I've done that with several actual RC models, and control was very good.

That's a nice P30. The pull-pull is nice, it's definitely the lightest, though I'll confess I usually just do music wire because it's easy and strong. The pull-pull get's loose with heavy use and you have to re-do it once in the while, no big deal.

There are two parks in the city, but it is difficult getting to them, as the bus system limits how much you can carry aboard the bus.  I'll have to figure a way of packing my stooge, winders, rubber, and fiddly bits, as well as one model in one box.

This I can relate to, given that I've been through the same thing. Note that you can often put larger boxes in the side ports of the bus where luggage goes. You can get several P30's in carry-on boxes, and I use a hand/shoulder bag for equipment and tools.

I may have to design a stooge that I can somehow clamp down to a picnic table.  That would solve the bulk problem.  Anyone ever designed and built such a thing.  Definitely would like to see a picture of it.  Caley

I have one I clamp to the park bench, you can see it in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft0WD036EmM

You don't need much stooge-wise if you can wind outside the plane, I don't even use one anymore most of the time, I just wind on the fence and then just pick up the plane and insert the motor. But even if you wind on the stooge, you can just use the simplest design and clamp it to a bench/table. Good luck!

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crashcaley
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« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2019, 10:01:36 PM »

DlyGuy,  Nice video of how you go do your thing at the flying field.  I took my simple stooge and removed everything from it except for the aluminum box base and the two uprights that hold the pins.  I then used an old piece of hardwood, and drilled holes so I could mount the stooge parts to that board.  I had to quit working on it due to darkness.  But I am hoping I can figure out a way to hook it to a table, or possibly a fence post.

You really do go with a lot of stuff.  I plan on just one box with everything inside.  Probably put all the support equipment in the bottom, and a model on top.  Once I figure out how to build a light weight box out of wood, I will post the results, if I do manage to build one.
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Flyguy
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« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2019, 11:55:43 PM »

Yes, I also have a simple stooge (and a few others), you could just drill a hole in wood for the shaft and then slide it in and clamp it, like I do for the andriukov stooge, but there are a couple of possibilities.

Since I'm just walking to the field, I tend to bring a lot of planes so I can hang out for a few hours and fly a lot of stuff if its a good day (i.e., no soccer or baseball). A wood box is nice, but I do both my indoor and outdoor with simple cardboard boxers, I admit I'm lazy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE4-lrI1i-g

I also have a video for a smaller "travel box" that I use for the subway, but I haven't posted it yet, it's been sitting around for a few years until I get some footage of using the box!
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crashcaley
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« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2019, 10:19:32 AM »

FlyGuy,  I've been using self made cardboard boxes to store individual models ever since I started.  One reason I do this is that I live in the high desert, and of course, the air is just chocked full of dust motes that eventually fall, and get on everything.  Dust is something that eventually will destroy just about any surface, so the need to store them in an enclosure.

I like your transport boxes.  I probably could make one just for two or three models, though taking just one of mine would probably be fine.  I like to concentrate on one model.  Most of mine have never flown, so I need to do a lot of work to make them flyable.

I would have never thought of a clamp, so thank you.  The clamp is all I will need to get off of Amazon.  I just need to get one big enough to fit over the lip of the picnic table.  And I will have to drill a hole in one of the clamps so that it fits over the bolt on my stooge.  Guess I need to go down to the Park to measure the thickness of the table.
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« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2019, 03:01:15 PM »

Dust is inescapable, here in NYC it's blackish because of the soot, I have to remember to wipe off the planes, though the box definitely helps to keep the dust off.

My friend made a very compact box that holds two P30's, so it's easy to transport.

Guess I need to go down to the Park to measure the thickness of the table.

I had to smile on that one, I did the same thing when I started in the park, and my first clamp was still a little too small, those benches are pretty thick!
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crashcaley
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« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2019, 03:12:03 PM »

I finished my preliminary picnic table stooge.  If the table isn't too thick, I will change the metal clamp plate to a hardwood clamp plate.  I just don't know how much play I have with the current setup.  I'll use a towel for putting the front of the model on to protect it while winding.  That towel can also be used for cushioning while transporting the equipment.

Boxes will have to wait, as I don't have a way of carting the large cardboard sheets from the local moving company.  Years ago I purchase a couple of sheets, but those got used quickly.
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« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2020, 11:37:00 AM »

Happy New Year Everyone!

I resolved to decrease the fat content of not only my model airplanes, but myself.   Roll Eyes

I decided to try the nearby Park possibility for flying my very small rubber powered airplanes, and the new rubber powered rudder RC jobs.  The walk one way is about 3/4 miles.  I baseball field is out due to it being surrounded by light towers, but to the south area of the Park is a softball field with has a soccer field right next to it.  Only has surrounding chained link fencing.  It should be good enough for when there isn't any wind.

Unfortunately there are no tables to attach my stooge to, as set up in the picture above, so I have to go back to the drawing board, and try something that can attach to a chained link fence post.

Since there isn't any bus service in that area, I will have to walk, rolling my stuff to and from the Park.  So I definitely need to get in better shape.  I need to figure out some kind of contraption that I can pull behind me that has the model box, and support box.  And it will all have to be light, as part of the walk is through a flood area that is behind the Park. 

Though I am not sure I will manage to make it there before I try getting another vehicle.  My auction person is sending me a advance on my coin collection, based on his estimate of the value.  That might be enough to get a down payment on a slightly older used mid sized truck or SUV.  And out here in the desert, you need one of these vehicles to get around in some areas, as long as they have 4-wheel drive.
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« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2020, 02:47:52 AM »

Happy New Year to you as well Caley. That's a great resolution. How about a cheap one of these as a basis for your model transport

https://www.amazon.com.au/b?ie=UTF8&node=5017032051

John
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« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2020, 05:37:09 AM »

John,  I do have one of those I use when I go grocery shopping.  I guess it could be put to use as a go to the field cart also.

As for the stooge, I will just have to use the simple stooge, even though it is bulky.  I can just take it apart completely to make it a bit more compact, then put it together at the soccer field.
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« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2020, 04:48:45 AM »

Caley,
         A camer tripod makes a good basis for a free standing stooge and are reasonable if found on sale. They also fold down for transport. Just a possibility.
Ricky
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