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Author Topic: Capacitor powered electric vs. rubber.  (Read 2728 times)
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cvasecuk
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« Reply #50 on: April 17, 2021, 10:27:28 AM »

I ordered 4 last Saturday from China. I could not use the French warehouse!! Something to do with Brerxit I suppose. They arrived today.
I doubt they will fly without lots more nose weight but worth it just for the electronics.
Ron
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USch
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« Reply #51 on: April 17, 2021, 11:20:41 AM »

 Cry Cry Cry

still waiting for the delivery, from France

 Cry Cry Cry

Urs
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sx976
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« Reply #52 on: April 20, 2021, 05:21:09 AM »

This is the 400mm span Spitfire model I built for my Chinese Toy Lipoly with Timer. It's a copy of a model I built for indoor flying with a Parkzone Ember brick, so I know it will fly well. I have built 4 models from this design in 3 sizes (this is the smallest). Also did variations on bubble canopy/high back and clipped wings/standard wings. Very versatile!

The RC model at the back weighs 23.5g and the new free flight one 21.6g - both ready to fly.

The sparse instructions indicate that when charging the light flashes and when charged it goes solid. On mine it seems to be solid when charging and off when charged.

Chris P
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« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 05:52:39 AM by sx976 » Logged
sx976
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« Reply #53 on: April 20, 2021, 05:40:44 AM »

I thought that this module might be the perfect solution for my Avro Manchester (see Reply #26). I rigged up a test board with two 615 motors and 45mm props. It works very nicely and didn't melt or explode with the two motors. The Lipoly doesn't have any data written on it, but having compared the size with others on the internet I'm pretty sure it's 130 mAh or so.

Some cautionary information : The smaller motors (6 series) have 0.8mm shaft holes and the larger (7 series) mostly have 1.0mm shaft holes. 0.8mm props are difficult to find. AliExpress and Banggood often do not list the hole diameter, which isn't at all helpful. 1.0mm props are very common. If I ever see props that are 0.8mm I usually buy some.

Chris P
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sx976
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« Reply #54 on: April 20, 2021, 05:57:55 AM »

If anyone is interested in more detailed information on the Spitfire :

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?3371797-A-Universal-Indoor-Profile-Depron-Spitfire#post42412567

Chris P
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« Reply #55 on: April 20, 2021, 12:28:24 PM »

Did some Spitfire test glides in the park. Tail heavy. The Lipoly is now moved forward and is located underneath the timer. It also improves the access to the charging port.

Chris P
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airplay
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« Reply #56 on: April 21, 2021, 01:56:23 PM »

I bought 2 toy planes too. Chris's tip. They have arrived in less than a week from France.
My motors measures about 7x17mm (can) / 0.8mm axle. Total powertrain about 8.20g.Thrust is 18g (with a bit fading along the 16 s timerrun) I didn't charge the battery so more is properly possibly...
Testing was with delivered 46mm pusher prop.     Jens
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« Reply #57 on: April 22, 2021, 05:14:53 AM »

Fully charged the toyplane system has 20-18 g thrust over the 16-17 sec runtime. Blue led stops at full charge.
Jens
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sx976
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« Reply #58 on: April 22, 2021, 05:21:00 AM »

Hi Jens

You are obviously data driven like me !! This might help too :

Chinese Model ready to fly   15.84g

Spitfire airframe without decoration  11.8g

Spitfire airframe with decoration  12.72g

Spitfire with module installed (ready to fly)  21.6g

Lipo charges at 200 - 320mA @ 5.16 - 5.28V

Chinese Power Unit  8.29g (we only differ by 0.09g  My scales were very inexpensive)

If you check YouTube videos of the Chinese model flying, it seems to be grossly overpowered. This is why I made my Spitfire bigger. Going by your thrust data, my Spitfire should be capable of almost vertical climbs!!!

Chris P
« Last Edit: April 22, 2021, 05:44:27 AM by sx976 » Logged
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« Reply #59 on: April 22, 2021, 05:53:19 AM »

This is the revised Lipo location after glide tests.

Chris P
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Yak 52
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« Reply #60 on: April 22, 2021, 05:59:59 AM »

Hi Guys.

This thread started as a personal project question about capacitors and has now drifted way off into Lipo and timers. Any chance you can start a new one? It just helps people to find what they are looking for down the line...
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ghcrash
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« Reply #61 on: April 22, 2021, 09:00:10 AM »

Hi Guys.

This thread started as a personal project question about capacitors and has now drifted way off into Lipo and timers. Any chance you can start a new one? It just helps people to find what they are looking for down the line...

Thanks for the reminder Yak.

Jon has been very helpful in designing some form of motor control to be used with a capacitor.  A lot of progress has been made, but like this thread,  some of that progress has gotten off track.

Presently a small, 400ma, controlled for use with indoor capacitor planes is almost ready to go public.  I just need to collect some flight data for it.  There is an outdoor version of the controller in the works.  It will handle at least 1.5 amps.  Presently we are working on shrinking the device and on incorporating a Peterborough style timer.   Also in the works is a smart charger for the capacitor.  The capacitor voltage can be set to any desired level,  capacitor charge level will be monitored and displayed, visual and auditable indication of completion of the charge.  And what I think is neatest is that continues to  monitor capacitor charge and will automatically top off the capacitor if the capacitor voltage drops below its desired level.
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George
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« Reply #62 on: April 22, 2021, 09:12:48 AM »

Just my two pennyworth, and I know I am usually way out of step, but I see a capacitor as a replacement to rubber power. I never needed a timer for my rubber models, so I would see one as entirely unnecessary for a capacitor model too. For me it is a case of changing wind and fly to charge and fly. I used to count the turns (I was never competitive enough to use a torque meter or other 'dark magic') and let the model do its thing. Now I just charge the capacitor using the built in meter on my charger to tell me when to stop and let the model do its thing. Anything else, to me at least, breaks the KISS rules.
I guess I'll now have to keep a fire extinguisher close to hand.
Rob.
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« Reply #63 on: April 22, 2021, 09:44:09 AM »

I think you're probably right about the simplicity Rob, especially outdoors when the initial excess power bit of a supercap discharge just means more height.

George is flying indoor duration on supercapacitors so he has a reason to try and eek out the best performance and that means trying to get a more favourable thrust profile over all by flattening out the initial voltage.

I think his controller may also be of use for Lurker's the original idea of a scale twin - having an adjustable 'cruise power' setting would make scale trimming easier.

The timer was just an idea 'because you could' and to avoid flyaways.

I agree it adds complexity, but those who don't mind that, it should give most of the functionality of a profiler without the faff of charging lipos.


Jon
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ghcrash
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« Reply #64 on: April 22, 2021, 11:01:04 AM »

Robmoff,

All your comments are good.  We are not trying to change the way people fly, we are just trying to come up with a tool that might offer an advantage in certain situations.

The motor controllers for capacitor planes are probably only of use if you are flying in a limited area.  The only indoor freeflight sight I have access to has a 24 foot ceiling with exposed truss beems.  At that site, and other low ceiling sites, controlling the flight, whether rubber or capacitor, to stay out of the ceiling is paramount.  Outdoors a limited area my occur if the flying field is small.  There it might be beneficial to limit the flight height to keep the plane out of nearby trees.

As for adding complexity, all the complexity will be in the controller.  The airplane and motor arrangement is the same with or without the controller.   Besides some people like to have (or in my case, make/design) the newest and neatest toys.

Keep flying, regardless of what you fly.

      George
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George
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« Reply #65 on: April 22, 2021, 12:13:45 PM »

Quote from: Robmoff
Just my two pennyworth, and I know I am usually way out of step, but I see a capacitor as a replacement to rubber power.
Which is sort of where this thread started. Smiley
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ghcrash
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« Reply #66 on: April 27, 2021, 10:56:23 AM »

 
I need a little help guys.

I'm trying to figure out what is the most common and most effective method of charging a capacitor.   First, how do you connect your charger to the capacitor?  Next, what do you use for a charging device?

Thanks

     George
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« Reply #67 on: April 27, 2021, 06:11:03 PM »

There is a decription and picture of the one I made in the 4th post in this thread.
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« Reply #68 on: April 29, 2021, 05:26:01 AM »


I need a little help guys.

I'm trying to figure out what is the most common and most effective method of charging a capacitor.   First, how do you connect your charger to the capacitor?  Next, what do you use for a charging device?

Thanks

     George


I built this one. It is excellent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GFkoMKBCtc&t=4s

Chris P
« Last Edit: April 29, 2021, 05:36:44 AM by sx976 » Logged
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« Reply #69 on: April 29, 2021, 05:47:23 AM »

My charging box has gone through many changes as a result of practical use. This is the latest 'mutation'.

Chris P

PS : In case you are wondering, the only difference between the Big Caps and Small Caps modules is that the former is set at a max charging current of 800 mA and the latter at max 450 mA. I'm just too lazy to change settings.
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ghcrash
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« Reply #70 on: April 29, 2021, 09:57:52 AM »


So far it seems that everybody is using voltage regulator setup for charging their capacitors.  Any other approaches being used?

What is everybody doing with regards to connecting the charger to the capacitor?
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George
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« Reply #71 on: April 29, 2021, 10:20:04 AM »

What is everybody doing with regards to connecting the charger to the capacitor?

I don't know about everybody, but I use the device as described in the video. Made from mini choc ice sticks and some brass wire.

I also think it is important to have voltage AND current regulation.

Chris P
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« Reply #72 on: May 04, 2021, 03:32:54 AM »

I'm going to try something different for the connection to the capacitor. The ice cream stick works well, but requires a (tiny) switch in the circuit. These switches are proving to be not very durable.

The 'Chinese Module' I like a lot. The jack plug arrangement cuts off the connection between the motor and capacitor and the model is started by simply pulling out the plug. No switch. Additional to the socket, the module has some electronics to cut down the voltage from the 4 x AA batteries. That's the black box marked A on my box.

I finally found the same jack plug socket size 2.7mm x 0.7mm on Aliexpress and have ordered a bunch. I can then use my intelligent charger without needing the electronics from the module. Advantage again no switch.

Chris P
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« Reply #73 on: May 04, 2021, 04:18:35 AM »

I also use a voltage regulator and charging device similar to that shown by Chris, as I was also inspired by the same site.

The jack idea is a good one Chris. I have used the small switches so far and haven't had any issues ( I lost both models before this could happen  Smiley, but will consider using jack plugs next time.

John
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« Reply #74 on: May 04, 2021, 08:52:03 AM »

I'm going to try something different for the connection to the capacitor. The ice cream stick works well, but requires a (tiny) switch in the circuit. These switches are proving to be not very durable.

Chris P

I too have had trouble with tiny switches.  I think that the problem originates from the fact that most of them are only rated for few milliamps.  The highest rated 'tiny' switch I've have found was rated for 500ma but weighed 0.25 grams.   Smaller/lighter switches are often rated below 100ma.

   George
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