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Author Topic: Nano planes..............  (Read 756 times)
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kaintuck
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« on: February 24, 2020, 10:13:59 AM »

I'm gonna TRY to build a 3"wing span electric FF Lazy Bee plane....question is: using my micro 3V motor, I've ordered some watch batteries.....I will just use and throw away...but, has anybody tried this?...is the battery to small for any power? they are 1.5v each...so 2 will make a 3v system, but milli amp hour?Huh
if I can do it, i'll post pictures.....
marc
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raggedflyer
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« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2020, 02:38:00 PM »

Have a look here..

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-smallest-RC-airplane-ever-to-have-flown-successfully
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strat-o
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« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2020, 02:46:08 PM »

For battery I would go with lipo.  They make some very small and light weight cells that come in a foil pouch.  I'm not sure if Full River is still in business but they had some cells as small as 10 mah.  It's possible that they make even smaller ones.  What is nice about lipo is their voltage runs from 3.3V to about 2.7V or so.  So there is no need to run multiple serial cells.

There is a forum on RC Groups now called Scratchbuilt Indoor and Micro Models.  There was a thread in there where a guy built a scale P-51 with a 4 - 4.5" wingspan and 6 channels that included flaps and retracts.  It's a little larger than where you are wanting to go but it might be instructive especially for the motor hardware.

Marlin
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lincoln
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« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2020, 03:08:24 PM »

Depending on just how light you can build it, you might consider a biplane.

To match the wing loading of a Lazy Bee, your reduced version would need to be something like 6 or 7 grams. However, it would LOOK like it was flying maybe 15 times as fast! If it was 1 gram, maybe only 6 times as fast. This is based on stall speed, and it's trying, very roughly, to account for viscosity effects, so don't hold me to it.
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kaintuck
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« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2020, 03:32:33 PM »

great info guys!...these 'nano' planes are a nice new challenge for me...gone are my days of 9' scale cubs, tho they are cool, I got tired of assembling/disassembling and borrowing the wifes jimmy to haul them in etc etc...
these little planes are just as much fun building and engineering...and stuff has that's tiny, has gotten cheaper too!
thanks for the links...I have more reading now!
marc
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kaintuck
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« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2020, 10:21:11 PM »

Fuse is almost done...
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Yak 52
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« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2020, 05:00:32 AM »

...has anybody tried this?...

This is my effort: https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=23967.0

The model was 8" but high aspect ratio - and a twin. The battery was too small and thrust wasn't up to it with the voltage sag. I did look at coin cells at one point but dismissed them.

It's tricky to get thrust to weight AND low wing loading in these little micros, but a built up structure and a low aspect ratio is a better direction for sure.

This was the timer: http://peterboroughmfc.org/technical-articles2018/Miniaturising_FET_Timers.htm



https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=23967.0;attach=196281;image
Nano planes..............
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kaintuck
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« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2020, 06:45:05 AM »

Wing framing....the wood for ribs and braces is sanded to .017”... Grin
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Robmoff
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« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2020, 06:58:07 AM »


This is my effort: https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=23967.0

The model was 8" but high aspect ratio - and a twin. The battery was too small and thrust wasn't up to it with the voltage sag. I did look at coin cells at one point but dismissed them.

It's tricky to get thrust to weight AND low wing loading in these little micros, but a built up structure and a low aspect ratio is a better direction for sure.

This was the timer: http://peterboroughmfc.org/technical-articles2018/Miniaturising_FET_Timers.htm



https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=23967.0;attach=196281;image


That is just crying out for a 5F capacitor, which will not weigh much more than your timer, which it will no longer need.
Nano planes..............
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lincoln
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« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2020, 08:40:20 AM »

The Jimmy is for your boat.

Looking forward to your progress.
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Yak 52
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« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2020, 10:16:13 AM »

That is just crying out for a 5F capacitor, which will not weigh much more than your timer, which it will no longer need.

Erm, less than 0.25g? Aren't 5F supercars like 2g or more?
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Robmoff
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« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2020, 12:25:55 PM »


Erm, less than 0.25g? Aren't 5F supercars like 2g or more?


I just weighed these:
10F    3g   
 5F     2.5g
 3.3F  1.3g
which I will admit are all a bit more meaty than I had assumed. but worth a shot. It's too pretty a model to not fly. So you would be trading 0.25 g of timer Xg of battery for possibly a bit more max thrust (IR of a supercap is the square root sod all divided by a lot) and you get the benefit (?) of a power curve similar to a rubber model.
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kaintuck
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« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2020, 04:12:47 PM »

I'm thinking she will be heavy for the wing loading...and may just be a 'powered glider'~ but there are these 4mm motors on fleabay that look promising. Along with a capacitor of size....MAYbe it could fly a circle, maybe two!
anyway, neat stuff, this 'nano' planes!!!...and your twin looks great, I want to build a twin A26 Invader, tissue covering, lipo power...we will see............
marc
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kaintuck
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« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2020, 05:03:18 PM »

Ive been searching....but has anybody heard or done a 6" wingspan plane using the gasparin G3 motor?HuhHuh

she sure is purty!!!!.....I see a pipercub with rudder only~~~~~~~~~

marc
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kaintuck
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« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2020, 09:12:47 PM »

More progress...the tail feathers are laminated edges...way strong, way lite...
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Yak 52
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« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2020, 03:51:24 AM »


Erm, less than 0.25g? Aren't 5F supercars like 2g or more?


I just weighed these:
10F    3g   
 5F     2.5g
 3.3F  1.3g
which I will admit are all a bit more meaty than I had assumed. but worth a shot. It's too pretty a model to not fly. So you would be trading 0.25 g of timer Xg of battery for possibly a bit more max thrust (IR of a supercap is the square root sod all divided by a lot) and you get the benefit (?) of a power curve similar to a rubber model.

Yeah the low IR is the main advantage of caps. I have a 0.9g 1F but how long you'd get useful power for I don't know. Actually the lipo was giving a few seconds of reasonable thrust before sagging as you can see in the video. I will try a bigger battery but even then I expect thrust/weight will be insufficient. A smaller single engine on this battery might be better. The problem is partly down to virtually no info on the cheap 4mm eBay motors...
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kaintuck
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« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2020, 01:51:56 PM »

lo and behold~!...there was a G1 motor made that would of powered this 3" monster I built!!!!!!!!!

ahhhh.....IF I could find one...and, rob the piggy bank...wouldn't it be SO COOL!
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kaintuck
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« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2020, 02:28:47 PM »


Erm, less than 0.25g? Aren't 5F supercars like 2g or more?


I just weighed these:
10F    3g   
 5F     2.5g
 3.3F  1.3g
which I will admit are all a bit more meaty than I had assumed. but worth a shot. It's too pretty a model to not fly. So you would be trading 0.25 g of timer Xg of battery for possibly a bit more max thrust (IR of a supercap is the square root sod all divided by a lot) and you get the benefit (?) of a power curve similar to a rubber model.

Yeah the low IR is the main advantage of caps. I have a 0.9g 1F but how long you'd get useful power for I don't know. Actually the lipo was giving a few seconds of reasonable thrust before sagging as you can see in the video. I will try a bigger battery but even then I expect thrust/weight will be insufficient. A smaller single engine on this battery might be better. The problem is partly down to virtually no info on the cheap 4mm eBay motors...

im using the 4mm size motors, that came from the tail rotor motor on a micro heli that commited suicide....and it will run VERY powerful with it's 1" prop on a 5f cap or a 3v dry cell.....the cap don't last long...but lighter than the batt's....
still working up a suitable plane to handle this package...........I DO see the new little 4.5mm motor....
https://www.ebay.com/itm/5PCS-Vibration-Motor-4-5-5mm-Micro-Mini-5-pole-Coreless-Motor-DC-3V-3-7V-DIY/283452675155?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144

thinking maybe a new type to try?HuhHuh
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kaintuck
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« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2020, 05:06:37 PM »

I FINISHED HER....but I don't have a small enuff power package....someday in the future maybe i'll be able to 'power' her, as of now, just a glider, and that is yet to be proven~ I currently will install a fake gas motor, just to get some nose weight, like alotta women...she's tail heavy Cheesy
marc
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« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2020, 02:23:50 PM »

http://microflierradio.com/...Full Rivers down to 10mah, 0.15gram brushless motor....Nick can hook you up when it comes to nano.
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kaintuck
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« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2020, 09:46:27 AM »

 Shocked wow....I didn’t know this stuff existed......I can afford it right now, but I can’t build that good either! Cheesy
But.....SOMEday!
Marc
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