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Author Topic: Chain Gang Winder  (Read 1103 times)
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Art356A
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« on: March 30, 2020, 09:54:05 AM »

Is there any more market for these? I had an inquiry a couple of months ago. He asked about the price and when I wrote back I never heard from him again. At that point I decided to scrap the whole project.

Another inquiry came in and I told him I wasn't making them anymore. Then the quarantine hit and I found myself locked up in the house with enough parts and materials left to build maybe 3 or 4 more and plenty of time to waste. So I wrote back to the second guy and asked if he was still in, and that I could make one up for him in a few days. Dead silence.

I originally figured there might be a possible market for maybe 50 units worldwide, but I've built 150 since 2012, and that looks like about it. There's one on the bench now, about 3/4 done. I figure I'll still do repairs (at the cost of parts, materials and postage) until the virus gets me.

art.

 

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My arms are so weak, it's like that pushup I did last year was a total waste.
g_kandylakis
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« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2020, 02:07:59 PM »

Hi Art,

first of all, don't let the virus get you !

Second, if you have the time and the materials, why not build the  winders you can?

I am sure you will ger rid of them on the way.

Still have to do mine, do not know when  Embarrassed... I regularely think of it though  Smiley

Stay well,

George
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scale free flight & micro RC
lincoln
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« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2020, 04:42:24 PM »

What's the gear ratio, and how much rubber can you wind with it?
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Art356A
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« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2020, 05:19:44 PM »

Ratio is 1:10. and the breaking torque is 8.87 in/oz based on the chain manufacturer's guaranteed breaking strength, which is ridiculously conservative.
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Jetsrforkids
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« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2020, 11:17:05 PM »

So for those of us recently returning back to free flight, what is a chain gang winder?
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lincoln
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« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2020, 01:03:22 AM »

How many strands, approximately, to get 8.9 in oz?
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Art356A
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« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2020, 10:19:16 AM »

Jets -- It's an indoor winder, based on chains and sprockets instead of gears. Delrin chains and sprockets have zero friction.

Linc -- Depends on the thickness and length of the strands. But it's way beyond any indoor motor. Let's say that a Hangar Rat motor would be the biggest, strongest normally used in indoor. They're easily broken by a CGW.

The 8.87 was worked out for me by John Barker (the British one), so I think we can consider it gospel.
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Bredehoft
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« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2020, 10:35:16 AM »

8.5 is about safe torque for 2 loops of 3/16".  The chain gang winder was not designed for that type of motor.

--george

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Art356A
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« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2020, 02:36:35 PM »

It's over folks. The correspondence on the forum created a few new orders and it looked like the CGW might not be a dead issue after all. I filled all but one of the orders and had to wait on the last one 'til a batch of new parts came in. The new chain and sprockets arrived and they were off the original specs. I spoke with the manufacturer and explained that I had to have a completely frictionless mesh between the chain and sprockets, like I used to get.

Now, all the rest of his customers (the robotics hobby and the ATM manufacturers, primarily) have no such requirement. They just need to transfer torque between shafts with a step-up or down between the shafts. They have power to spare, so if the shaft  spacing has to be brought up tight to where it introduces friction, it's no problem for them. And if the gap in the chain width has gotten too small, or the width of the sprocket teeth too large, it's no problem for 99.99% of the users and he's not changing anything. Gotta admit he's got a good point.

So there it is. No more CGW's. I have enough electronics on hand to make up six counter modules 2.0 if anyone wants to upgrade from the old clunky ones without replaceable coin cells. The parts order that just came in cost $173 and was useless so I'll have to see if I can return all the parts in stock. Bummer.

Adios,

Art.
  

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My arms are so weak, it's like that pushup I did last year was a total waste.
Bredehoft
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« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2020, 03:27:36 PM »

Thanks for making them while you could, Art.  I am glad to have mine.

--george
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Tmat
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« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2020, 04:58:18 PM »

Art,
I used my chain gang winder today in fact to power a living room flyer. It works perfect.
Thank you for making such a wonderful device!

Take care,

Tmat
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lincoln
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« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2020, 06:49:09 PM »

Thanks for answering my questions.

I might have gone with the chain gang if it was more powerful, for use outdoors. Indoors I have a Wilder winder. (at least I think that's the name)

Have you looked at Stock Drive Products? (I'm guessing you have, but it doesn't hurt to mention it.)

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OZPAF
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« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2020, 08:49:13 PM »

Even though I don't have one Art - I really appreciate the effort made by any small kitchen Industry supplier. Cheers mate.

John
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Art356A
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« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2020, 10:16:03 PM »

Linc, I think I remember looking at Stock Drive when I first got the idea of chain & sprockets. Not suitable for the project for numerous reasons, not the least of which is cost. The concept was to develop something that could be built with hobby shop materials (mostly K&S), Lexan from Home Depot, and the chains and sprockets mail order from Servo City. I was hoping to get the plans published in a modeling magazine but that didn't work out.

Oz, I never got any penetration into Australia or NZ. Asia is limited to two in Japan and one in Malaysia. There's even one in Capetown SA. So I've got all the continents covered except yours.

I finished up this last one (with the lumpy 10T sprocket) and I'll send it to the manufacturer, along with my own (one of the first half dozen from back in 2010-11) so he can see the difference. I also sent him a copy of this afternoon's post; maybe we can work something out if he's still talking to me.

a.
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ceandra
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« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2020, 05:14:13 PM »

Art:

I have two of your winders now, plus a Wilder. One of my F1D kids also bought one of your winders. The kids love your winder, more than the Wilder. I copied your electronics and made a counter on my Wilder, but they still prefer the Chain Gang. Good smooth feel and feedback!

We'll be using all three a the rescheduled Worlds, probably in December.

Hope you are able to resolve the supplier issues. While it is not a big market, your tool is among the best!

Chuck
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jaycub
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« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2020, 12:48:53 AM »

During my time saving enough for a CGW, I found out Art was done producing due to manufacturer issues. Since I was ordering some stuff from ServoCity, I decided to order some of the same sprockets he uses and decided to make my own. While I don't think it possible for these to come back into production without finding a new source, this thought experiment was fairly interesting to me.


I have attached a video of my prototype, with the main changes being:
- no analog or digital counter
- use of 1/4in threaded rods to hold the body together
- 1/4in bolt & 3d printing used for the handle
- dual output shafts, 20:1 and 5:1
- bearings instead of bushings
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPhIlivYu1Y

The notable change I would make to my current design, is changing to thinner threaded rods to decrease the overall thickness of the winder and moving the 20:1 output shaft's bearing holes a millimeter or 2 further away from the connected shaft to reduce the slack to have a smoother rotation. Also adding a cleat/foot to it such that it can be easily held in place during motor loading, as well as adding a counter for ease of use.

Best,
Jaycub
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steve-de24
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« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2020, 06:59:59 AM »

Hi Jaycub, a nice winder - thanks for posting.
Can you tell me a bit more about the chains and sprockets you are using? chain pitch link size, number of teeth on the sprockets etc.
Thanks,
Steve
« Last Edit: December 20, 2020, 08:26:35 AM by steve-de24 » Logged
jaycub
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« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2020, 03:20:39 PM »

Hi Steve,

This is not my original design. This is Art Holtzman's design, but I can give some insight on how I approached the build. As you can see in the video, I did use a dual output(20/5:1) using sprockets from ServoCity and the associated chain. (https://www.servocity.com/0-1227-pitch-press-fit-nylon-sprockets/, https://www.servocity.com/0-1227-pitch-plastic-chain/)

I used 40/8, 40/10 ratios to achieve the 20/5:1 ratio. For 10:1 you can use a 16T sprocket instead of the 8T I used. As for the shafts, I used 1/8in smooth shafting and printed some adapters for the 40T 1/4in to 1/8in to make it mesh well. I can upload my cads to thingiverse later when I have the time.
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steve-de24
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« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2020, 08:46:21 PM »

Jaycub,
Thanks for your quick reply - you've given me the information I wanted.

Stay safe,

Steve
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