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Author Topic: PZL P.24 Hellenic Air Force  (Read 2653 times)
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g_kandylakis
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« on: April 18, 2020, 09:14:23 AM »

Projects! Projects! Give me projects... The more the better. Not many of them get finished, but so what... At  least we are busy having fun.

I had my work (modelling speaking) pretty well organised, then comes along the Walt Mooney cook-up. Sure, I can build a WM model for that..

In between Mike Stuart publishes his PZL P.24 plan, taken the extra time and trouble to make the greek version as well. Folowing a short verbal request after I saw his at IIFI in Nijmegen last November...He took it seriously and did it!

So, what to do now? Well, build it, what else...

I printed the plans, thinking what to do with it. 1/24 is nice but a bit too small for what I had in mind. I also like 1/20 scale. A test print at 1/20, it looks more to my liking. To Mike's too, he was only forced to go smaller by travel limitations to the FAC Nats...

So, 1/20 it is. Oh, and CO2 too, not rubber. Either an MJ-70, in worst case an MJ 140. Plenty of time for that decision though.

Started with the fuselage a few days ago, have the stringered thing almost completed.

Do not tell the "Head" of the cook-up though, he is not going to like my diversion from my previous diversion...

The Weick still has priority, I just had to do the fuselage...

So, another build thread. Please do not count the ones I have already started..

George
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g_kandylakis
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« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2020, 11:42:25 AM »

And current status, fuselage fram "complete". "" because it never really is...

Weight so far 4,9 grams
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mick66
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« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2020, 05:42:13 PM »

Hello George

I'll be interested to see how this turns out.  I just saw your post here after starting one re the IAR80/81 in the RC stick&tissue section.  The IAR80 is a favourite of mine and was developed by the Romanians from the PZL P24.  The back history is very interesting for both aircraft.

Goodluck with your build.

Cheers

Mike

PS I'm at the design stage and am just working on stringer locations and the fuselage spine which was a kind of 'add on' affair.
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g_kandylakis
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« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2020, 05:38:25 PM »

Hi Mike, thanks.

I will be watching with interest the IAR80. I see the fuselage resemblance, was only surprised to see a low winger...

Little progress on the P24, the cowling was next.

Very clever design by Mike to build a rigid frame inside an have most of it removed once finished. I added some thin ply in th front, to get a sharper and more durable edge. Took some sanding to finally arrive to the result in the pictures.

A deviation from the plan is that the cowl will be removable, in order to fully access the motor. I am thinking of replacing it with a mockup during triming, having access to the CO2 motor cylinder(s) for power adjustment. Once the propeller is removed, the cowl should easily come out, held in place by magnets...

Last pics show it next to the Weick (stress test over, especially with weight slowly building up...).
I am still building secretly, hidding from the cook-up chief, waiting for some important equipment to arrive for the Weick.

George
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g_kandylakis
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« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2020, 04:58:05 PM »

Stalled with the Weick and the Walt Mooney cook-up, I am getting busy in the MS cook-up, where I am the only entrtant.

MS ?

Mike Stuart of course...

Whose design is a very good one...

I did decide some minor changes though.

Having never built a cracked rib wing, I had an inner resistance, as I do not like how the end result looks. Then the though of having to draw all ribs reminded me again why I chose to build another model from plans, because most of the tedious job is already done by someone else.

So, I compromised, using the basic wing design, but adding light balsa stics on top, to shape them to airfoil. No second spar, so almost similar weight. Please with the result...

Also too lazy to make a proper building base, I chose the end of my balsa building block and made each gullwing section at a time. Luckily, no major errors.

Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: PZL P.24 Hellenic Air Force
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g_kandylakis
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« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2020, 05:08:44 PM »

Tail surfaces were also done, I chose to do the laminations with basswood inste of balsa.

I do not mind about the tail weight, as a matter of fact I am almost sure I will need more, such is usually the case with my CO2 models.

All main surfaces are done, some attachment points to be defined for struts, landing gear etc. Also the CO2 motor mount that will allow the quick removal of the unit for charging, adjusting, repairing...

Then covering can commence. That certainly goes faster than my usual builds.

On the documentation front, I found a great Polish book on the type with plenty of photos, drawings, sketches and color profiles, also more than my usual documentation files.

Nijmegen seems viable...

George
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: PZL P.24 Hellenic Air Force
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g_kandylakis
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« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2020, 05:11:36 PM »

Forgot to give some weight information...

fuselage 6,2 gr
cowl 2,7 gr
two wings 4,0 gr
horizontal tail 1,0 gr
vertical tail 0,6 gr
landing gear wire 0,9 gr

A total of 15,3 gr for what you see. Have no target weight yet...
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g_kandylakis
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« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2020, 05:11:39 PM »

some progress regarding woodwork the last couple of weeks...

Wing halves glued together

landing gear wire flued to fuselage former. I did noy mak any marks in advance and was worried how to align it, then used the plan as template... too simple but it took me some time to do figure it out

horizontal tail built according to Mike's plan first. The one shown was made later, to allow for separate surfaces
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Re: PZL P.24 Hellenic Air Force
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g_kandylakis
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« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2020, 05:14:35 PM »

a bit too detailed maybe, but I took the pics, so why not post anyway...

The extra strip in the first pic was glues as a temp support, so that when I cut the sticks shorter for the second middle spar they do not move or break away... Was later cut to pieces and each then removed with thinner
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g_kandylakis
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« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2020, 05:25:10 PM »

wheels were also made. First balsa laminations for the halves, then the halves turned on my "lathe".

I prefer to use a ply center disk and sandwhich everything together. This way a have a good resistance at the outest diameter.

A first weighing brought some shock, so the halves were hollowed a bit on the inside and the disk underwent some diet too.

Temporary fitting of everything, to see how it looks on wheels

3rd pic, the engine compartment... I want the filling nozzle to be hidden, so I need a qick removal of the CO2 motor assembly. I opted for a rotational bayonet system.

I think I showed my initial parallel keyhole system to Gerard Brinks and he modified it for his Lockheed Orion to a rotational one. Then I saw it and used the idea back  Grin

The cowl is removable also, positioned with carbon pins, held on with magnets. The purpose beeing easy exchange with a dummy cowl that will allow motor adjustment during trimming. That is the idea at least.

From the picture it is clear how much advance engineering went into it. Almost zero... Thank god for the the "Dremel" and a cylindrical sanding tool...
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Re: PZL P.24 Hellenic Air Force
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g_kandylakis
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« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2020, 05:32:42 PM »

The wing has a very unusual shape, plus it sits rather funnily on the fuselage. I want the struts to be functional, I can only achieve that if they are mechanically secured (wire into alum tubing bushings).

In order to define them, the wing needs to be stable. So first the wing had to be fixed into position, yet be removable for covering.

The pics show the simple jig I made for enduring the wing is perpendicular to the fuselage, before I drill the locating holes.

The fin positioning hole was used as pivot, the wing rotated until the two lengths were equal.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: PZL P.24 Hellenic Air Force
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g_kandylakis
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« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2020, 05:35:53 PM »

and here the wooden structure almost done.

Some will be needed after the covered wing is glued to the fuselage, so next step is covering.

Fin and rudder already done, will be posted at a later time.

That is all for now...

I have to get back to the Weick and get it finished first.

George
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Re: PZL P.24 Hellenic Air Force
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ironmike
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« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2020, 06:31:33 PM »

Nice looking bones kandy--. Very clean
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2020, 03:28:10 AM »

Excellent excess of photos George - and superlative solutions too!
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Kevin M
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« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2020, 04:09:17 AM »

Quote
a bit too detailed maybe,

I for one am happy to see as much detail as you are prepared to offer George. So many ideas to file away for future efforts.
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« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2020, 05:37:40 AM »

Neat as always George. i like your strip on cracked rib approach and your keyhole motor attachment! Thanks for all the detailed photographic steps.

John.
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« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2020, 03:39:02 PM »

Hi George,

I really like this, thanks for showing your progress.
You have captured the subtle curve of the cowl really well.
Its interesting seeing your methods and techniques.
Look forward to the flights!

Malc.
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g_kandylakis
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« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2020, 04:04:32 PM »

Thanks guys, good to know it is of interest, I'll continue doing so...

Curious though, nobody asked about the "Hellenic" title yet...

George
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« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2020, 11:02:04 PM »

Hey!  Even us redneck flight instructors in Alabama know that "Hellenic"  refers to Greece.
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« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2020, 04:41:19 AM »

It's all Greek to me!
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g_kandylakis
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« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2020, 03:24:36 PM »

 Cheesy Cheesy

okay, I did not know... The reason I wrote it is that in Greek, there is no "Greece" and "Greek".

The country is "Hellas" or "Ellada", the language "Ellinika"...

And now that I got this out of my system, back to the PZL.

With the Weick out of the way, this is my main project now, which means I need to start another  Grin.

Making the basic frame is always quick, compared to the hours that follow. In order to cover the fuselage I had to do the canopy plug first, for vacuum forming. A combinatio of carving, sanding, glueing and the plug was made to fit in the fuselage.

Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: PZL P.24 Hellenic Air Force
Re: PZL P.24 Hellenic Air Force
Re: PZL P.24 Hellenic Air Force
Re: PZL P.24 Hellenic Air Force
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g_kandylakis
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« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2020, 03:26:34 PM »

Next step is to add extra wood for the overlap to the wood and for better forming.

with all the extra wood blended to the canopy outlines, some final sanding (with scotch tape to protect the already finished area) and a few coats of dope to seal everything until shiny with no grain visible.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: PZL P.24 Hellenic Air Force
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« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2020, 03:34:19 PM »

I had already covered the tail surfaces and the wing, as visible in the photographs, shrunk everything and given a coat of dope...

So it was fuselage time! What a joy. I love those round fuselage frames, the most satisfying part of any build... Grin

It went well, but what a nightmare, so many hours... The first section was 16 individual pieces. Then it was 2-3 pieces for each of the remaining 7 sections. Covering, laying new paper over, marking the limits, cutting the resulting curve, covering, next segment... Angry
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Re: PZL P.24 Hellenic Air Force
Re: PZL P.24 Hellenic Air Force
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g_kandylakis
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« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2020, 03:42:30 PM »

Anyway, all covered, shrunk and doped one coat, time for another assembly to get motivation and some pics...

Started work on the motor mount.
The motor chosen is the Brown 0.005. They run great. My only concern is the piston in terms of wear and replacement, but I am waiting for some spares to be turned by a professional ina few days. If that works, I will have no worries...

The airframe so far is close to 20 grams, I am hoping / aiming for a final 30 +10 for the motor, so 40 grams in total...

Mike's version at 1/24 scale was 35,5 grams, so I am optimistic.

George
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« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2020, 05:03:40 PM »

wonderful build George....love the small co2 motors....back in the day, I wish I had bought one of each!!!!!!!
got a couple, and...afraid to run them due to parts Huh and years back, I sent some to be repaired by the master himself!!!...I just put cash dollars in with the motor...and said if you need more, write to me....he fixed them, and returned them in a couple of weeks!
wonderful fellow~
marc n tomtom
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