Logo
Builders' Plan Gallery  |  Hip Pocket Web Site  |  Contact Forum Admin (Account/Technical Issues)  |  Contact Global Moderator
January 26, 2021, 11:10:11 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with email, password and session length
 
Home Help Search Login Register
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O  (Read 2532 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
g_kandylakis
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 52
Offline Offline

Greece Greece

Posts: 770

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2020, 05:25:03 PM »

Next step was to add some diagonal bracing.

Not everywhere, the structure is strong enough as is in the remaining bays.

Mostly in the cockpit areas, for visual reasons but also for strength because the openings there are the largest ones.

To ensure the fuselage sides do not get distorted, a temporary stifening piece of sheet balsa was glued (not with CA !!!)

Tiny holes were already drilled in advance, for where the thread is going to pass through.

Thread pieces cut and put in place, they were later secured to the top longeron with CA.

The best way to ensure a stress-free bracing is to have equal tension in the two diagonal threads. I like to use gravity for this. So, equal weights were hung from each thread, and when everything was stable they were CAed to the fuselage.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Logged

scale free flight & micro RC
g_kandylakis
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 52
Offline Offline

Greece Greece

Posts: 770

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2020, 05:26:34 PM »

Final step was to remove the sheet parts with thinner and to trim the thread ends. Some extra fine sanding as well to smooth out everything.

Weight as shown, 2,7 grams. Certainly more than balsa, but I like the thin appearance.


So, next is the fuselage box, but I need to do some drawing up first.

George

Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Logged

scale free flight & micro RC
OZPAF
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 188
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 6,089



Ignore
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2020, 07:29:42 PM »

Fine work as usual George. The thin structure does look elegant.

John
Logged
g_kandylakis
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 52
Offline Offline

Greece Greece

Posts: 770

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2020, 04:05:36 PM »

not much of an update... fuselage box nearly done.

I am trying to work a solution in my head for the interchangeble landing gear (land, sea)
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Logged

scale free flight & micro RC
Russ Lister
Free Flight Modeller .... sub 250g!
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 75
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 4,689


Russ Lister



Ignore
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2020, 05:04:56 PM »

Looking great, George  Smiley ... love the radiused 'sunburst' arrangement!
Logged
Gert Brendel
Copper Member
**

Kudos: 0
Offline Offline

Netherlands Netherlands

Posts: 7



Ignore
« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2020, 05:34:28 PM »


(...) Again with use of an inside sheet core, instead of standard stick and tissue construction. It halps me make accurate outlines and very thin edges. Or so I think... (...)


Good evening George,

Looking forward how this model will take shape, no doubt it will be as good looking as the model it is going to replace!

On a side note, I've noticed that you have constructed the tailplanes for other indoor scale models using this same method as well. Would you please share what thickness you are using for the core sheet?

Thanks and kind regards,
Gert
 
Logged
g_kandylakis
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 52
Offline Offline

Greece Greece

Posts: 770

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2020, 05:41:29 PM »

Hi Russ, Gert...

The core is light C grain balsa 0,5mm thick.
Logged

scale free flight & micro RC
THB
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 23
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 804


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2020, 04:54:19 AM »

HI George - happy to watch any number of projects you may want to start - the more the better. Lots of plans say to join fuselage sides by starting at the tailpost - which always seems a dodgy method.... I don't think you do this judging by the pic??
Tim
Logged

Tim
"Life is what happens while you're busy making other planes."
g_kandylakis
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 52
Offline Offline

Greece Greece

Posts: 770

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2020, 04:18:41 PM »

Hi Tim,

no, never... I try to start with a box, which can be squared rather easily, so usually at the front of the fuselage.

The tail post is the end result. If all goes well it should end up vertical to the fuse bottom. A slight adjustment is still possible of needed.

If you start with it, I do not know how you can adjust things in the front...

But thn again, everybody has preferences, I am sure somebody might prefer that way after all...

George
Logged

scale free flight & micro RC
g_kandylakis
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 52
Offline Offline

Greece Greece

Posts: 770

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2020, 05:50:36 PM »

Less than a month gone by, so steady (slow) progress...

In order to close the fuselage sides, I found it necessary to glue the rear part on a stiff bals piece, to keep everything aligned, especially for the former and stringer alignment.

Work has continued on the fuselage, the formers this time...

After drawing the cross sections based on the outlines and the stringer positions, the printed parts were glued to 0,6mm balsa with 3M spray mount.

The top ones were done first. Because of the thin material but also because of the very low curvature, there is not enough wood left if you cut them to the outline. Having realized this after breaking the first two, I changed my strategy, by cutting and slotting them as a bigger piece, to be cut  and sanded to final shape only after it was glued to the fuselage.

I opted to go with slots because I would have very accurate templates and because the stringers are very narrow, 1,5x0,5mm, so I wanted to keep them stable during after glueing.

They are again of basswood, to have a more scale look compared to thicker balsa ones. Sanded to exact cross section using my jigs and checking with an electronic caliper. Obsession... Yes, it is... as am I...

I hope the pictures explain it more clearly
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Logged

scale free flight & micro RC
g_kandylakis
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 52
Offline Offline

Greece Greece

Posts: 770

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2020, 05:53:37 PM »

Top side done...

Formers sanded down after the stringers were glued in place, to allow smooth covering along the stringers.

side formers next up...

One side done, the other missing three formers, but too lasy to do today. I 'd rather post pics  Grin...
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
« Last Edit: December 08, 2020, 06:10:22 PM by g_kandylakis » Logged

scale free flight & micro RC
g_kandylakis
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 52
Offline Offline

Greece Greece

Posts: 770

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2020, 06:10:08 PM »

As is...

And the sanding jigs I mentioned...I do not sand on the jigs, just place the sandpaper block over and pull the strip. Flip a number of times, up to down, front to end etc.

George
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Logged

scale free flight & micro RC
TheLurker
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 31
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 1,395




Ignore
« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2020, 12:46:56 AM »

θαυμάσια δουλειά!
Logged
Prosper
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 64
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 1,628



Ignore
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2020, 06:55:35 AM »

Hullo George - I love the way you go about things. I was wondering right from early in the thread. . .I noticed that you write on various patterns, jigs or what have you, in English. . .I wondered if that was for the benefit of us barbarians who don't speak Greek? (Excepting the Lurker here, that is.)

Stephen.
Logged
g_kandylakis
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 52
Offline Offline

Greece Greece

Posts: 770

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2020, 02:06:44 PM »

Hi Stephen,

you may not speak Greek but you seem to know the history well...

No, it was never my intention, it is just how it is...

My initial aeromodelling education was based on Model Builder and Aeromodeller magazines, as well as "Peanut Power" and Ron Williams indoor book.

So, most of the vocabulary I learned was in English. So it became a mater of course to write "jig" instead of "idiosyskevi", T for top instead of Π for πάνω (pano) etc.

And it stayed like that...


Lurk, you are full of surprizes ! Smiley

George
« Last Edit: December 09, 2020, 03:06:35 PM by g_kandylakis » Logged

scale free flight & micro RC
g_kandylakis
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 52
Offline Offline

Greece Greece

Posts: 770

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #40 on: December 24, 2020, 12:58:24 PM »

While waiting at the airport to fly back from Germany to Greece for the holidays, here is some more progress...

First of all, I would like to ask all the strick purist free flight people, to either look the other way or close this window immediately.

I am going to show some RC gear...   Embarrassed

A rail guide of balsa sticks has been glued on the inside of each of the fuselage sides. A ply tray slides in and out, for major servicing of the RC (bad word!!!) gear. The rear of the tray will be separated and permanently glued to the guides. It will be the base for the bellcranks that will be moved by the servos (another bad word!!!).

The base for the RX (bad initials !!!, pepper is coming) is almost built, next comes the aileron ser... base..

When I am satisfied with all this unspeakable work, I will glue the side stringers to the fuselage, than I will remove the thick balsa base holding the rear fuselage as square as possible.

Merry Christmas everyone!

George
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Logged

scale free flight & micro RC
fred
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 7
Offline Offline

Canada Canada

Posts: 603



Ignore
« Reply #41 on: December 24, 2020, 07:50:46 PM »

Dunno that looks to me as Exquisite work.. as for RC assist?
I haven't built a Full free flight model since Losing (a flyaway)  a Prized Pylon build in mid 60's.
Simple sleek streaks aside .. but a lovingly crafted scale model ?  Not a Hope Wink
Logged
OZPAF
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 188
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 6,089



Ignore
« Reply #42 on: December 25, 2020, 08:36:26 PM »

Your trademark neat work George - nicely engineered and photographed.

Hmm! Bad words! Never Cheesy

Merry Christmas

John
Logged
g_kandylakis
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 52
Offline Offline

Greece Greece

Posts: 770

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #43 on: January 24, 2021, 06:09:32 PM »

I love this line from The Mask... "Did you miss me?"


Yes, it has been some weeks again with zero updates... But I haven' t been idle. I haven't been very productive either. And I haven' t been been focused on this only...

So, during the holidays I wanted to catch up with some documentation and historical facts, whic led me to start digging in old newspaper digital archives. A ver informative search but a very tedious one as well, going through each page (no text recognition...) back in 1925 when we bought these aircraft. It turns out, the one I want to build, #139, crashed in 1928 during a training flight, killing both people on board ...

And once you start digging, you do not stop... So, this turned into a massive team project, where 5-7 of us are going to go through 20 newspaper titles, for the period of 1912 to 1940. Will take some years, for sure...

I did do some building as well, although mostly preparatory. All struts were cut to outlines from basswood, one or two got sanded to see how they will look.

I also started with the wings, the ribs actually, and that took plenty of time. Because of my obsession of course.

Dan may be complaining about his Sopwith Triplane but this is no better. Close to 100 were individually cut and shaped, sandwiched between templates.

I wanted thin ribs, about 0,6mm but did not have wood that thin and as light as I wanted, so I cut them from 0,9mm and sanded them to 0,65mm thickness afterwards. both sides to avoid any bending... Keeping myself busy...

You will notice the peculiar shape at front and rear. These will be ver easy to sand in the assembly and allow a very smooth blend with the L and T edges.

Ribs are finished, so I need to do spars (carbon top and bottom) and leading/trailing edges.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Logged

scale free flight & micro RC
g_kandylakis
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 52
Offline Offline

Greece Greece

Posts: 770

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2021, 06:12:30 PM »

On the matter of trailing edges, I had an idea, maybe nothing new, but worth trying anyway.

I remember sanding my Batboat wings, of exactly the same construction and fragility, so I thought of doing the main rough sanding in advance, to spare me from handling the wing.
Plus, using a jig, I could achieve a very constant cross section and fine thickness at the rear end.

A test was made this morning and it looks good in a short length. Now to choose some wood...

George
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Logged

scale free flight & micro RC
piecost
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 12
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 557



Ignore
« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2021, 10:22:56 PM »

Thanks for the update George. Can you tell me what density balsa you use and what thickness you sand it down to?
Logged
g_kandylakis
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 52
Offline Offline

Greece Greece

Posts: 770

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #46 on: January 25, 2021, 06:43:14 AM »

The wood I used was 83 gr/dm3 or 5,5lbs/ft3.

Also to be said, I wanted C grain... I had plenty of A grain that filled the bill...


Thickness was 1mm more or less. First side sanding brought it to 0,75, second side to 0,65mm.
Logged

scale free flight & micro RC
kkphantom
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 9
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 200



Ignore
« Reply #47 on: January 25, 2021, 07:58:54 AM »

I'll be interested to see how you rig the motor control for both r/c (shhhh) and free flight.
Logged
g_kandylakis
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 52
Offline Offline

Greece Greece

Posts: 770

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #48 on: January 25, 2021, 03:20:52 PM »

Hi Gary,

this is the wiring plan.

It is more or less the same as in my de Havilland 9.

Hope it is clear... else just ask...

George
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: 1/20th Avro 504 N/O
Logged

scale free flight & micro RC
OZPAF
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 188
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 6,089



Ignore
« Reply #49 on: January 25, 2021, 06:44:00 PM »

Clever and neat way to convert from RC to FF.

I'm a little curious about the rib shapes at the LE and TE. I can see why you are doing it but surprised since you are considering pre shaping the TE to avoid stress on the lightly constructed wing and yet will be blending the ribs on the framed wing. Admittedly the ribs are very thin and the shaping should not place too much load on the wing structure.

Happy building and thanks for your detailed thought provoking updates.

John
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up
Print
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!