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Author Topic: Printing Tissue  (Read 499 times)
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dorme
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« on: February 17, 2021, 01:14:22 PM »

I have for several years been using an Epson XP-310 printer with Durabrite cartridges.  Good printing and no running of colors when sprayed with water to shrink.  I didn't need anything else....until I moved to AZ for 6 wks and the printer I brought would not load the paper.  So, I went shopping for a new printer.  None of the current Epsons use Durabrite.  They now have a new cartridge called "Claria".  Sorry to say, as nicely as it prints, it runs when wet.  They claim it is waterproof on photo paper, but it is not on bond paper or tissue.  It doesn't smear badly on bond paper but it still does vs. Durabrite. 
At this point I shall have to use alcohol for shrinking and watch how I wet the tissue...probably mist it lightly with Krylon before wetting even with alcohol, as suggested by a friend.
I would like to hear from others if they have the new Epson Claria or how they deal with printing on other machines.
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RolandD6
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« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2021, 03:44:31 PM »

The more simple or cheaper Epson printers that were available in Australia that used Durabrite inks seem to have also disappeared from the market. I did find at at least one Workforce printer that uses Durabrite. Maybe that printer(s) will also disappear at some time. A long time ago I had a Canon printer that used water resistant ink but it did not last long on the local market. Clearly the general buying public do not care about water resistance. Claria inks are dye based and are used in the high end photography printers because those inks on the right paper produce much better images.

Bit of a bummer for model airplane builders. I guess we will have to care for what we have until Epson drops replacement Durabrite ink cartridges entirely.

Paul
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ironmike
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« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2021, 07:10:23 PM »

Ive a WF 3620 that works fine using dura brite.

Mebby these are still available?
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RolandD6
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« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2021, 08:50:40 PM »

Epson Australia list the WF-3820, WF - 3825, WF - 4830 and WF - 4835 which use Durabrite ink.

The Expression series of ‘home’ printers available in Australia no longer use Durabrite ink.

My printer is an Epson XP - 400 which is now years old. It still works and I can still get Durabrite ink for it but for how long?

I have inherited and old upmarket photo quality A3 printer but it uses six colours of Claria ink. The last time I purchased ink for it the cost was more than $200. It is very likely cheaper to get large prints done at an office supply store than purchasing another set of ink tanks.

Paul
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dorme
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« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2021, 08:57:42 PM »

"Ive a WF 3620 that works fine using dura brite."

Unfortunately, this is one of those printers that is discontinued.  When I was purchasing the Epson XP-7100, the Epson saleswoman was there and she said that the Durabrite series was discontinued and replaced with "Claria" and that it is was smudge proof (for photo paper).  There wasn't a printer there that was loaded for us to try.

Tonight I tried several techniques...misting with water and dabbing with paper towels so that it didn't run.  Works ok, just requires careful application of water...not too much!  2. Misting with lacquer before misting with water.  So far this seems to be the way.  I haven't tried alcohol yet as I don't have any.  Tomorrow I'll try that.
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PB_guy
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« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2021, 10:27:06 PM »

I am using an HP Officejet 6700 printer that uses non-refillable ink cartridges #932/933 black/color.
I print on tissue on a carrier sheet at best quality print.
So far, these inks do not run at all. They are quite water safe, even if soaked.
ian
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Re: Printing Tissue
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USch
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« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2021, 02:56:37 AM »

In the last 20 years I had or have used HP Officejet printers exclusively. There inks are water, alcool and acetone/nitro thinner proof. Just lately I found some little smearing if one insisted to much with dope application.

I print with the normal setting as better quality settings apply to much ink on the paper.

Urs
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Kevin M
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« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2021, 05:35:29 AM »

I think the difference is whether the inks are dye-based or pigment based. Pigment is not water-soluble. Cartridges for most (but not all) of the HP Officejet series use pigment based inks for both black and colour. Their Deskjet series generally use dye-based inks for colours. Many printers use cartridges with pigment based inks for black but dye-based inks for colours. Epson Durabrite Ultra is a pigment based ink. Epson Claria uses pigment for black, dye for colours. It may be worth an internet search to see if there is a pigment ink available for any particular printer, even if the printer maker doesn't do one.
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dorme
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« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2021, 11:49:16 AM »

Some great responses here that are very helpful.  Thks.  I didn't know about HP printers.  Right now they are very reasonably priced.  Also, found a shop here in Phoenix that repairs Epsons.  I'll give them a call.
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atesus
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« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2021, 12:21:46 PM »

I'm suffering from the same problem. My Epson Ecotank printer uses dye based ink, something I came to realize post-purchase. I was replacing an older Epson WF series printer which used Durabrite inks and I got the wrong impression that all Epsons did so.

Have you tried shrinking with steam? It may take multiple passes but could work, based on what I've read somewhere. I didn't get a chance to try shrinking printed printed tissue but i tried with plain Esaki on light structures with good results. I found if works best when I boil water in a shallow and large pan.

Good luck,
Ates
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dorme
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« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2021, 01:25:25 PM »

Ates, I tried steaming and what happened is that water droplets formed and ran down the tissue smearing it.  Very little control in steaming.  Better with a spray bottle and immediately dabbing it with a paper towel to avoid runoff.  Works pretty well.  Also, a light mist of lacquer helps a lot, but it can still have smearing with water if too much is used.  So, so far misting with lacquer and light misting with water x2 works the best to shrink it fully. 
Going the printer repair guy on Monday to have the old Epson looked at.
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Kevin M
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« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2021, 01:29:23 PM »

I have used steam shrinking on tissue printed with non-waterproof ink with success, on small models. Light steaming so droplets don't form. As you say, it may take several passes, letting the tissue dry between.  Also I have used an airbrush to spray de-ionised water with the needle closed almost right down. Just enough so that the tissue slackens very slightly without ever looking wet. Again it may take more than one go.
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DWCollins
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« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2021, 02:42:06 PM »

ink x pro offers pigment inks for some printers I have been using their CISS system.
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RolandD6
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« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2021, 04:13:00 PM »

Are all pigment inks equal in their water resistance properties? At some point I read that Epson inks also contain some sort of resin which probably explains their tendency to clog the print head nozzles. Epson recommends a minimal head clean every two weeks to keep the nozzles clean. Epson printers that use Claria inks apparently are less susceptible to that problem. I should test my A3 printer which has been standing idle for at least two years.

During the course of my tissue finishing experiments I have found adding food dyes to a clear acrylic ink base will result in water sensitivity whereas commercial acrylic inks containing a dye are generally not water sensitive so there are other factors in play.

I once tried third party refillable cartridges in a cheap XP100 printer. The ink was supposed to be equivalent to Durabrite. Wrong, that was a lie, and the cartridges compressed the electrical contacts so that the genuine cartridges would no longer work.
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fred
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« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2021, 07:56:29 PM »

Small digression:
I've owned  & used 'too many' Inkjets over the years. Versions  from Cannon, Epson , HP and Brother.
 All, when I could find them of 11 x17 capability.
 Most claimed to be 'workstations',    a spurious marketing claim actually meaning that a scanner  was included  Roll Eyes   
ALL my inkets suffer (ed) Badly ! from periods of Inactivity ie: their printheads clogged when left unused for a week or longer.
 I've even bought an Ultrasonic tank to clean the Effing heads.. Which mercifully Does ! work well.
 BUT and here's the real caveat:  On a few printers, accessing, unclogging and re fitting the printheads is a Full DAY's job.
Plus ink everywhere you didn't want it.  No Joke that.
Moral to this Sad tale being :
 IF you don't  normally use your Inkjet several times a week.. Avoid owning one.. Entirely.

God has given us reasonably affordable color lasers which have Zero issues with irregular usages.
 
Plus.. laser colors don't turn into watercolors at the first hint of humidity.
 
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dorme
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« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2021, 10:48:52 PM »

RolandD6, I have not used 3rd party ink refills for a few years now since it last jammed my printer.  I always used the factory ones.
Fred, thanks for the infomation.  Are you saying that laser printers will print without smearing when water is applied?
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dslusarc
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« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2021, 10:59:44 PM »

I have an EPSON WF-7710 for tissue printing. This is my third 11x17 Workforce printer for tissue. The heads do clog after about 18-24 months unless you use it all the time for other printing. The first one I had I had to scrap as the heads would not clean no matter what, even with bought cleaner fluid and following online videos. So lost out but my solution to this was to pay the ~$20 for a 3 year service plan. I keep the box for the printer in my attic and after 18-24  months when the heads dry up or will not unclog, I file a claim. Then I box it back up and ship back (free postage with service plan) then in about a week they scrap it and refund your purchase price. Then I go buy a new one and start over and buy a new service plan. I buy them either off Amazon or from Walmart (I am in the USA) and buy the extended warranty they offer which is usually through Square Trade. I am about 1 year into my current WF-7710.

I use the Epson due to the waterproof aspect. I also found that using non Epson brand ink will lead to head clogs. So stopped buying "refills" or Epson "compatible" although genuine costs more. A lot of "refills" were not pigment but dye ink and would run when I shrunk the tissue. Also found people on Amazon/Ebay selling fake Epson cartridges. Looks real but the microchip on the side does not have Epson on the circuit board. They even print fake Epson boxes to put the hacked cartridges into. Refills is what screwed up my first Epson some years ago then a set of fake Epson color cartridges from Amazon ruined my second one.

One way to keep the heads happy is to make a quick page in something like Paint or Word with a rectangle box of each color. Say the boxes are 1/2" x 2". So one red, cyan, yellow, and black and then a few lines of text in each color. If it prints cleanly then do it again in two weeks. With the wireless Work Force models you can set up a free email address for the printer and I had an email sent every two weeks to the printer from my mail program. The email had the four colors in it and text to print. So that way I would never forget. But really since I made sure to only have Epson brand and real Epson cartridges I have not had an issue with my current WF-7710 and I do not print all the time. If it clogs, then I have my warranty Smiley

When I had the non Epson ink and needed printed tissue for an indoor nocal. I would shrink the tissue with water then iron the tissue between paper towels with a iron set to highest heat setting to smooth it out. Then use that preshrunk tissue taped to a feeder page to feed through the printer. It would have micro wrinkles but you can print on it OK. As an alternative on heavier structure models I would sometimes iron the tissue with my iron set to highest steam setting and steam iron the tissue. This shrinks and irons the tissue at the same time. That works pretty well, does not do a full shrink like water and letting it air dry but pretty close. I have been able to steam iron tissue with non waterproof ink but it needs to be ironed on a few layers of paper towels to prevent bleeding and you need to work fast and not stay in one area long.

The things we do for our model planes :-)

Don 
   
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fred
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« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2021, 12:20:18 PM »

  Are you saying that laser printers will print without smearing when water is applied?

Yesss Grasshopper...
Laser images are Waterproof ! They are heat sealed/melted  powdered plastic.. NOT .. ink.       
Consequently they do not run like watercolours. 
As  Inkjet images do.  More than a slight advantage  all by itself .
 No printheads to Clog (ever) means year after year of consistency / reliability

Colour lasers are becoming fairly affordable and  inexpensive (usually good,  unlike many inks) 'aftermarket' colour toners are easily  available.   
 
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pedwards2932
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« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2021, 01:00:06 PM »

Does the tissue have the same shrinking properties when you use a laser printer? 
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Kevin M
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« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2021, 01:32:36 PM »

Although waterproof, laser toners can be affected by acetone, xylene, toluene etc., the things we thin our dope with.

Laser printers are very good for home-made waterslide decals though.
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fred
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« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2021, 01:16:40 PM »

Does the tissue have the same shrinking properties when you use a laser printer?  

No issues yet, Laser drum fixing temps don't  show adverse effects on the tissue.
Although 'sometimes' there can be v slight cracking of the laser applied colors due to the shrinking of the tissue.
But that's only on Photo  quality images  (Heavy , dense colours) concern
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dorme
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« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2021, 10:51:11 PM »

Went to local (Phoenix, AZ) place called Compuworld for repair of my Epson printer.  He fussed around with it for over 1/2 hr and finally found the thing that was causing the alert"paper jam".
I never would have guessed it was a small piece of balsa as I don't build at the same desk as the computer/printer.  But nevertheless, it's fixed for $30 and works great.  (He was going to charge me $20, but I insisted that it was worth $30. It would have cost me more in money and time if I had had it fixed in NJ.)
I was able to return the new Epson I bought that used Claria cartridges.
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