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Author Topic: Free flight scale at the UK Nats  (Read 841 times)
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kkphantom
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« on: March 04, 2021, 10:50:59 AM »

Does anyone know if the free flight Nats are going ahead and if so, are there any scale events being held?
Gary
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cvasecuk
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« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2021, 11:03:22 AM »

I contacted Mike Woodhouse last week and his reply was....
"The Nationals? We simply don’t know. We hope to have more information this coming week. We are getting close to a drop dead date."
Ron
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Bryanair
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« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2021, 03:53:44 PM »

From John Ashmole.  Peterborough MFC

Gentlemen: I had better let you know, as promptly as possible, that following the FFTC meeting yesterday, the 2021 FF Nationals will not be taking place in its usual slot at the end of May this year.

It will be rearranged for the Autumn.

Oops missed that last bit off.
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billdennis747
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« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2021, 03:56:10 PM »

From John Ashmole.  Peterborough MFC

Gentlemen: I had better let you know, as promptly as possible, that following the FFTC meeting yesterday, the 2021 FF Nationals will not be taking place in its usual slot at the end of May this year.
Hello Bryan. Sounds like there might be a 'however' ?!
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Bryanair
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« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2021, 03:58:56 PM »

Yes Bill I was too quick off the draw.  Now amended original post.
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billdennis747
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« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2021, 04:07:05 PM »

Yes Bill I was too quick off the draw.  Now amended original post.
Rare good news - thanks Bryan
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Squirrelnet
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« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2021, 04:20:55 PM »

Thanks Bryan that's great news, even though we have to wait a bit longer it's great to know we have a FF Nats to look forward too.

... I wonder what will happen with the Mayfly at OW ....  Huh
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Russ Lister
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« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2021, 04:39:00 PM »

... I wonder what will happen with the Mayfly at OW ....  Huh

Fingers crossed!
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Russ Lister
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« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2021, 12:00:04 PM »

Mayfly cancelled too  Sad
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Squirrelnet
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« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2021, 01:13:12 PM »

Yep just saw that.  Embarrassed

Shame but it's out of their hands really...just means I'm looking forward to the scale weekend in July even more

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kkphantom
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« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2021, 01:42:13 PM »

Even if the Nats are on, I was wondering whether there was going to be any scale events after the previous dummy spit.
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billdennis747
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« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2021, 03:34:54 PM »

Even if the Nats are on, I was wondering whether there was going to be any scale events after the previous dummy spit.
pm
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Squirrelnet
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« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2021, 06:28:02 AM »

Just flicking through the new Aeromodeller and FF Nats are still listed, a quick check on the BMFA FFTC site and they are still listed there too .

Has there been a change of thought ? or have the diaries not been updated ?

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billdennis747
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« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2021, 06:44:02 AM »

Just flicking through the new Aeromodeller and FF Nats are still listed, a quick check on the BMFA FFTC site and they are still listed there too .
Has there been a change of thought ? or have the diaries not been updated ?
Chris, I suspect that's down to the fairly long lead-time on the magazine. The last I heard was that decision time for the May Nats is imminent and if it has to cancel, there is a possibility of rearranging, maybe August.
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cvasecuk
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« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2021, 06:57:51 AM »

Latest FFTC News 111 says....
FREE FLIGHT NATIONALS
At this time we are unsure of the availability of Barkston Heath for the Nationals at the end of May. We have
been informed that it is extremely unlikely, but things can change quickly. We will make a final decision at the
end of March to run the event as planned or cancel. If it does go ahead it will have to be a stripped down
Nationals without camping etc due to the shortened time for planning. If it has to be cancelled we will look
at options available to us later in the year. Please be patient with us at this unprecedented time.
Ron
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Squirrelnet
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« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2021, 05:20:48 AM »

The BMFA have just published this letter from Ian Pallister

Quote

Barkstone will not be available for the FF Nationals this year or indeed for the Power Nationals.

Though it seems there maybe some smaller events for individual disciplines, if venues and dates can be arranged
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2021, 08:02:02 AM »

It is a shame, as the FF Nats at Barkston is the very definition of a socially distanced event. Usually more likely to trip over a nesting curlew than bump into another human body!
Oh well- hopefully there'll still be something going on in a big field somewhere. Better keep watching out for news of Buckminster, Port Meadow and OW.
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che
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« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2021, 09:05:24 AM »

It is a shame, as the FF Nats at Barkston is the very definition of a socially distanced event. Usually more likely to trip over a nesting curlew than bump into another human body!

Well that's simply not true is it - there are known pinch points, especially around control when scores are being returned and the 'throng' looking at the scores. That's not to say that appropriate measures couldn't be put in place, but I see difficulties towards the end of the day (ie just prior 6pm) as people try and complete flights, and flyoffs with larger numbers could be interesting.

I hope the English Nats happens - I suspect the Scottish Nats will in some form, irrespective. And I for one, despite being predominately a FAI flyer, hope that any shortened event will ensure Open and Mini events happen, and drop FAI if needs be.

CHE
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2021, 09:28:44 AM »

It is a shame, as the FF Nats at Barkston is the very definition of a socially distanced event. Usually more likely to trip over a nesting curlew than bump into another human body!

Well that's simply not true is it - there are known pinch points, especially around control when scores are being returned and the 'throng' looking at the scores. That's not to say that appropriate measures couldn't be put in place, but I see difficulties towards the end of the day (ie just prior 6pm) as people try and complete flights, and flyoffs with larger numbers could be interesting.

CHE
Sorry. Point taken and you’re right of course. Mine was a rather flippant remark and, as you say, there are pinch points that would need careful consideration. Quite big crowds watching the scale events sometimes too. But it is also true that at times at Barkston I’ve probably had more open space around me than at almost any time in the last year. I don’t mean to make light of it though and certainly don’t expect organisers, scorers, gate keepers or anyone else to put themselves at risk just so I can have fun.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 09:40:54 AM by Pete Fardell » Logged
Kevin M
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« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2021, 02:06:26 PM »

Is it not the case though that requirements for social distancing don't apply after the third week in June on the current plan?
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SP250
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« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2021, 06:09:21 AM »

Kevin M,

If you think all social distancing is finishing after third week in June, then I for one will not be going anywhere that you or other people might think that.  The vaccine is not 100% effective and if you catch C19, especially one of the new strains, then it is a lottery if you will die or survive it.  I have risked my life racing motorcycles in the past at the IOM and Nurburgring, but I will not do it under these pandemic circumstances.

The RAF have said we can't have the Barkston airfield and that's that. 

The STC have a number of options to look at and a specific discussion for the next meeting will be to see how we can run some RC, FF & CL competitions to substitute for the cancelled Nationals, obviously with full C19 distancing & safety measures.

John M
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Russ Lister
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« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2021, 08:28:50 AM »

John,
Nothing is 100% safe ... especially a motorcycle helmet ... I've had the stitches to prove it!
Going by my family history, I only have expectations of a 'three score and ten' .... two years of that last ten have already gone to covid as far as group participation at a 'national' level goes.
If the data allows ... and as a group of consenting adults ... I am more than willing to take the residual risk.
I only read the release quickly, but wasn't the main reason for cancelling to allow Barkston to catch up with their own backlog?
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Russ Lister
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« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2021, 08:39:36 AM »

Che's points are valid .... could we look at some kind of 'electronic' submission of scores? ... by internet, bluetooth etc.
A 'live, subject to confirmation ' scoreboard could be available online to prevent the usual gathering? It would get around most of the contact points?
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che
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« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2021, 10:58:57 AM »

Che's points are valid .... could we look at some kind of 'electronic' submission of scores? ... by internet, bluetooth etc.
A 'live, subject to confirmation ' scoreboard could be available online to prevent the usual gathering? It would get around most of the contact points?

It comes down to money and the fact that we as a sport doesn't have much. I worked with Martin Gregorie on the Nats pre-entry and then ran the Open Day for ten years or so. Martin developed a computer system that allowed very fast (ie a few seconds) data input for any class based on a ID on the score cards (so we printed the score card headers as well, typically 850 of them in those days). But few were interested in being taught how to use it (except, interestingly, for one flyer's wife) and so the other two days were often spent by Martin and myself sorting out problems. An alternative method was used at the 2015 Champs in Mongolia where they used SQ codes on each score card and a phone app to scan it, and allow score entry at the timekeeper's chair (I was a timekeeper so I know it worked well).

Displaying scores is harder. Martin used a line printer (laser printers not being around in those days) and it was very slooooooooooow, to the point where people were annoyed that scores were not available to review - a fair point. Offers of large displays never came to anything so it's perhaps not surprising the large hand-written score sheets have become the norm again. In Mongolia the scores went direct to a database and the scores scrolled continuously on largish flat-screen displays BUT there were only two of them, the scrolling was slow and individual scores were followed by team scores so it took a long time to review (I being 'staff' used to sneak in to the control tent to look at the scores on a laptop instead).

I think it's fair to say that the scores input is a simple problem to solve and there a few options for those of you who want to help, but displaying the results in a manner that allows a lot of people to view at a social distance in the rain and the wind, er the sun and the calm is a harder nut to crack. Any suggestions of how it's done, or if you have kit you're prepared to offer the FFTC (so set up on Friday pm, take away on Tues morning like Martin and I did for all those years) then step forward - do I hear anyone ..............

CHE
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TheLurker
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« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2021, 12:50:58 PM »

I write software for a living (sorry) and when anyone suggests writing applications for really, really special cases I wince.  Special cases don't come cheap. Given this may I suggest a relatively low tech solution that allows for (anti)social distancing?

1) Each CD has a cheap* PAYG portable 'phone and the number is made available to competitors in the event the CD is running.
2) Competitor sends text message (Event ID,  surname, initial, min:sec)** to CD's PAYG as each flight completed.  Those who are unfamiliar with text messages could, of course, simply telephone the result in.
3) Text messages are transcribed to big bits of paper, those A2 flip charts spring to mind, in characters large enough to be read at a distance,

I know not everyone has a portable 'phone, but very, very many do and for those who don't it ought to be possible for a fellow competitor who does to transmit the result to the CD on their behalf.

*I paid £1 for mine.
**For example  "KS, Lurker, T, 00:01"  for one of my longer flights at Kit Scale. Or to avoid the, "John Smith" problem use a competitor ID instead of surname, initial.
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