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Author Topic: Having to learn things again  (Read 535 times)
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crashcaley
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« on: June 10, 2021, 01:01:22 PM »

Hi Everyone,  I think it's been a very long time since I posted anything.  I am trying to get restarted after possibly five years away from really trying to fly anything.  I went to Perris, California yesterday to visit with the members of SCAMPS, and to try to fly and test some models.

Results were that my P-30 that I wanted to start with had problems from 5 years ago that I failed to resolve.  I managed to get around those, and fly it with low and medium power three times.  That was the best part of the day.

As some of you may have remembered, I did build a few new models, two of why were the Baron Knight II Coupe.  This is where I had lots of problems yesterday.  I wanted to test glide each model, and never got past the first, and I eventually got frustrated with my attempts at trying.  I just couldn't remember. how it was done.

Today I watched one video of a gentleman glide testing a jumbo model.  He barely pushed the model forward, and it glided wonderfully.  This leads me to think that I had balance problems with my Coupe, as I had to throw, yes throw the model, in order for it to glide without being a lawn dart.  It also wanted to glide to the left, and go hard left, once the glide speed diminished.

This leads me to the second point, the propeller assembly.  I was trying to glide test with the propeller assembly attached.  The gentleman in the video didn't put the prop assembly on.  I am guessing he added nose ballast to simulate the weight of the prop assembly.  This may be one reason why my model was trying to go left on the glide.

Do Coupes like to go left on the glide?

Anyway,  my frustration lead me to gift the the two coupes to two at the field, letting them know that there were things that still needed to be done to the models to get them ready for powered flight.  Of course, those were things I hadn't noticed when building, and only realised those problems when I unboxed them at the flying field.  I'm not disappointed I gave the models to others.  I, in fact hope they do get them flying, and enjoy them.  I'm more of a creator than a flyer.  I do like building the models. 

Anyway, I hope someone can enlighten me on things about glide testing, especially those like myself, who have severe finger arthritis that just about doesn't allow me to grip the model, and makes my hand open when i try to push the model forward for glide testing.  I had several occasions where the model almost landed at my feet due to the physical problem.  I'm just lucky I didn't lose the grip on the winder when winding up my p-30. Grin

I hope to go to Perris in two to three weeks to trying again with some of the other models I built, but never got even to the glide testing phase.  So I hope I can pick your minds of the important things I need to know.
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What's stall speed?  Undecided
Indoorflyer
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« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2021, 01:11:46 PM »

Hi Caley! Nice to hear from you.  

I think an excellent, comprehensive guide to getting your models "up and running" is the "Ten step guide to Trimming" by John Koptonak.   If you complete each step, in the order published, you should have success!  The guide has been uploaded twice (guess nobody checks for dupes) in the HPA Plan Gallery.

https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/details.php?image_id=5324&mode=search

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crashcaley
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« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2021, 01:38:03 PM »

Indoorflyer,  Who knows, I may've had that at one time on my other computer.  I've had two computers die on me in five years, so I now have that downloaded, and have read it quickly already.  Looks like the gentleman in the video may've been using the same set of instructions.

Next outing at Perris, I will try to get my Cloud Haunter glide tested using that method.  Hopefully I won't break the model during the process.  I best get that model down, and look at it very closely to ensure everything that is supposed to be on the model is actually on it, unlike those two Coupes I took down to Perris, and discovered both needed a bit more work to make them flyable.
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What's stall speed?  Undecided
billdennis747
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« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2021, 02:26:59 PM »

Caley, a coupe should glide slowly and they really are easy to trim. They can glide left or right depending on the trim you are using
1. Balance it - 60% back from LE. That's the rear spar on a Baron Knight
2. Pack up the TE of the tail until it glides with the merest hint of a stall. It should be going fairly straight ahead
3. For right power/right glide, you need a small amount of increased incidence on the right inner panel (washin). Get a wide right glide turn with a rudder tab, which should eliminate the stall
4. For right power/left glide, which is and easier and safer trim, the wing should have no warps. Use rudder tab to get wide left turn

On to power

5  Use packing behind the noseblock to get right thrust. On a BK that gives some down as well - doesn't matter. It will need about 1/16" for R/R, more for R/L

That should get you flying and stop you having to hurl your models or give them away. After that, your flying friends should chip in

This is a BK flying R/L     https://youtu.be/MlxIon_BEzI
And a Les Trumeaux flying R/L   It starts at 30 seconds and at 58 it starts transition to left glide     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9-1B35bHfo&t=13s
« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 02:51:43 PM by billdennis747 » Logged
crashcaley
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« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2021, 02:47:25 PM »

Bill,  Yup, those two models have new homes.  I hope the new owners can figure things out.  I don't plan on building any more Coupes.  In fact, I have so many models on the shelf in boxes, I am going to gift about half a dozen of them the next time I am in Perris.  I need room in my house so I can get in to sleep at night.   Grin  Nah!  Have room for the sleepy thing.  Just need to clear out some space so that I can actually start using that room for work, instead of storage.
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What's stall speed?  Undecided
flydean1
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« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2021, 05:34:30 PM »

Great to hear from you again, you were missed.
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dosco
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« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2021, 06:03:42 PM »

Great to hear from you again, you were missed.

Agree, happy to see you here again!

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lincoln
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« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2021, 07:04:29 PM »

Seems to me that, if you have trouble throwing models consistently, you might invent a very mild catapult of some sort. Or, for something like an embryo, ROG from a table. Can you trim endurance models with the prop folded at first? I usually start trimming models with just enough power that the prop doesn't cause drag. I don't have any ff models with folding props yet.

If you have too many models, you might try flying some of them at noon on a day with good lift. :-)

I'll admit that, personally, I have trouble with the concept of too many models or kits. However, that doesn't make the house or garage any larger. It doesn't make my storage any more efficient either, though I've built a partial box for the 12 foot glider. At least I'm not into quarter scale warbirds. A quarter scale Lazy Bee might be more like it.
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crashcaley
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« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2021, 07:19:55 PM »

Lincoln,  Yes, the way my arthritis is, and the way you have to hold a model for a glide test, just before I get the model pushed forward to full extension of my arm, my hand just opens up on its own.  I guess I need to take a super dose of Ibuprofen about an hour prior to flying at the field.  That seems to quell the pain, and makes the hand swelling go way down.

I live in a 750 square foot 1970 house.  I don't have a garage, and the shed I have is way too hot to store delicate models.  They would either dry out due to the heat of the summer (120+ F in the shed), or more likely warp.  I live in the high desert where it is mostly sand, and very prickly bushes and plants.  Not good for flying or even testing a model.  And the two parks we have are very small for even radio control assisted flying.  I used to do RC flying, but that has gotten extremely expensive.  I still have two micro RC models i am going to sell at my upcoming yard sale.  That will make a tad more room in my house.  :-)
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What's stall speed?  Undecided
faif2d
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« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2021, 07:23:58 PM »

It is great to hear from you again Caley!  You will get it all figured out just like you have many times before.  You are a sharp lady and I have missed your input. Steve
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I used to like painting with dope but now I can't remember why!    Steve Fauble
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