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Author Topic: SO Electric Wright Stuff 2022  (Read 964 times)
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Little-Acorn
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« on: June 26, 2021, 01:02:43 PM »

A lot of wishful thinking in this thread. As of now, the SOSI schedule indicates that Electric Wright Stuff is being considered as a regular event for Div. B (Middle Schools).

https://www.soinc.org/sites/default/files/uploaded_files/SOSI_Schedule0409.pdf

"Being considered" doesn't mean it will be a normal event, only that it might be. As far as I know here in southern Calif, EWS has only been a trial event in the last several years. Hopefully it will be a full event this coming season. We may know more after the meetings in July.

Since EWS has been a trial event every time I've coached it, that meant my local school wasn't interested in doing anything with it, until about three weeks before the State tournament. Which meant a sudden crash development program, materials acquisition, building, testing, and competing, all in three weeks (groan). Figured that this time we could start a little earlier.

But no rules for it have been published for the coming season, if any. There were rumors (as Covid shut everything down last year) that if/when they got going next season, they would use the same rules, weights, dimensions etc. as the season that got shut down. Mostly so that build event students would be able to use the things they built but never got a chance to run last year. Works for me. But we won't really know for sure until the 2022 rules (if any) get published.

Well, so I'm trying to avoid another 3-week design-and-build season. Saved the test plane from last year (the one with the wing tip plates), and went for a super-light design for this coming season. Last year's was 10.46 grams flying weight, next season's is 8.35 grams (the one with dihedral and no tip plates) so far. Last year's rules specify minimum weight of 7 grams, so you'd think sub-7 was possible, with ballast to be added for trimming. But the motor, gearbox, prop, and capacitor alone that I used last year, weigh 6.4 grams all told. And that's without an airplane. Managed to cut it down a little, but I'd sure like to see any design that can fit the rules and weigh less than 1 gram without the drive system. I haven't figured it out yet. Kudoes to anybody who does.

Went to the local middle school for first flights this morning. Gym not available between regular school and summer session, and maybe not then, so I flew outdoors, early morning before the wind came up. That's cheating a little, I didn't have to worry about hitting a ceiling.

First flight of the new plane (no tip plates) was bleah, maybe 10-15 seconds with a new propeller I was trying, never got above head height. Switched to a different prop, and got a 1 min 41 sec flight. It would have hit most gym ceilings unless you're in a blimp hangar, that flight has a big asterisk next to it. But it's nice to know the plane can do it. Did some other mods to reduce the excessive altitude, they didn't work out. But overall a VERY good first few flights, learned a lot. Now time for a LOT of fine tuning.

Capacitor was an AVX marked 5F 3V from the factory. In my tests it actually showed 5.16F, such variability is one of the issues in previous EWS seasons, today's datasheet for that company shows stunning tolerances. Now a few more companies are making supercaps in this range with much tighter tolerances, like +/- 5%, maybe we can get more "fair" component consistencies this next season.

Anybody done any designs recently? How are they doing?

As I said, no rules have been published for the upcoming 2022 season for Electric Wright Stuff, if it's even an event at all. The planes below conform to the 2020 season rules, for EWS as a trial event in southern Cal. See them here:

https://socalscioly.org/downloads/2020%20SoCal%20Trial%20Electric%20Wright%20Stuff%20B.pdf

Basically they say:

Minimum weight 7 grams
Wing no larger than 40cm x 10cm
Stabilizer no larger than 20cm x 7cm
2-blade propeller no larger than 14 cm diameter
Capacitor labeled no larger than 5F, 3V
...plus all the usual color-in-one-wing-panel jazz.

Again I have no idea if those rules will be used for the coming season.

-----------------------------------------
(**Late Addition: I just found another set of EWS rules on the SOINC official site, at
https://www.soinc.org/sites/default/files/uploaded_files/TrialElectricWrightStuffB21.pdf . I have no idea how long they've been there or who put them up, or if they're going to be used this coming season. Maybe they are old rules from a previous season, I don't know. Each pages has a cryptic mark at the bottom such as (c)2021-B55, which might suggest they were intended for last season's (cancelled) Div.B competition, in some part of the country. They are covered with angry red letters saying DO NOT POST, yet there they are on the soinc.org website. Weights are the same, wing and stab dimensions are different, prop is bigger. Anyone seen these before?)

-----------------------------------------
Also just found a separate list of SO events, which mentioned that it was just updated on June 14, 2021. It says that EWS will be a new regular event (not trial event) for Div. B. And (rubber-powered) Wright Stuff will be an ongoing event for Div. C (high schools). See it at https://www.soinc.org/sites/default/files/uploaded_files/2022.Events_061421_0.pdf
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SO Electric Wright Stuff 2022
« Last Edit: June 26, 2021, 02:36:29 PM by Little-Acorn » Logged
ceandra
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« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2021, 01:17:03 PM »

No rules will be "published" until Labor Day timeframe. Any that are will just be speculation.

Chuck
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Little-Acorn
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« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2021, 09:30:12 PM »

Yes, that's normally how things go in SO.

But last season was weird due to Covid, and more than one SO official in SoCal So said that when they DO get things going again, he wanted to use the same rules from that year (whichever year it was), so that students in build events who didn't get a chance to compete with their plane or roller coaster or whatever, didn't have to throw their newly-built devices out, but would be able to compete with them in the coming season.

The SO officials might ultimately change their minds about that, maybe no previous year's rules will be used this coming season, we just don't know. As you said, we probably won't get the official word, until Labor Day or so.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2021, 09:48:05 PM by Little-Acorn » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2021, 01:49:42 PM »

So had announced that the 20-21 season would be virtually the same rules as 19-20 rules for that reason. I believe the intent was to move on to new rules for this year (21-22), as evidenced by the new slate of events that includes a new cycle of events.

I would be surprised (highly) to see a repeat for a third year. 20-21 was completed, with Nats, whereas 19-20 was not.

Therefore I would expect to see new rules.

Chuck
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Little-Acorn
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« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2021, 08:39:36 PM »

You're very likely right. So none of these planes will be eligible, considering how SO has a habit of making wings smaller, props smaller etc. so that people must build new planes.

* Leftmost plane here is designed to conform to 2021 rules: 40x6cm wing, 25x5cm stab, prop up to 20cm(!) diameter, min weight 7 grams. Built for very light weight, it actually weighs 7.53 grams, covered with Ultrafilm.

* Middle plane is designed to 2020 rules: 40x10cm wing, 20x7cm stab, prop up to 14cm diameter, min weight 7 grams. Actually weighs 8.46 grams. Covered with Ultrafilm.

* Rightmost plane was built last year, to 2020 rules. Metal motor mount, round CF wing struts, covered with Walmart produce bag. Weighs 10.58 grams.

Even if none of these designs can be flown in future contests by students, I needed the practice building (and experimenting). I still make way too many mistakes.
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Re: SO Electric Wright Stuff 2022
Re: SO Electric Wright Stuff 2022
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Little-Acorn
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« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2021, 03:01:02 PM »

Another plane built to 2021 rules. Lower plane is the one shown earlier, upper one was built yesterday. Both have a new motor/gearbox/prop combination, still not entirely happy with it. Lower has max allowable wing and stab size, covered in Ultrafilm. Upper one has a shorter stab, shorter fuselage, very short wing pylons, covered with a Walmart produce bag, weighs in at 5.93 grams. It flew for 1 min 22 sec this morning. Still work to do on that one, and it needs ballast. It was designed in the hope that 2022 rules might allow a lighter weight.
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Little-Acorn
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« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2021, 10:26:37 PM »

Found at https://www.soinc.org/rules-2022

2022 RULES COMING SOON!
2022 Rules PDFs for Division B and C coming soon!

Access your free copy starting at 9:00 am CT on Tuesday, September 7, 2021.

Links here coming on the 7th!

See you then!
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Little-Acorn
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« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2021, 01:15:42 PM »

I've put together another possible Electric Wright Stuff plane, going by rules from several years ago. The coming rules for this season will likely be different, of course.

This one has a rectangular wing, slightly airfoiled ribs, no taper, and no dihedral. But it does have wingtip fins about an inch high, which I'm told can substitute for dihedral.

It has an odd flight characteristic. When I charge it and launch it, it goes fairly straight and climbs for a short time, then it banks right and start zooming around in pretty tight, fast right circles

The really odd thing is that when I charge it and launch it wit a slight LEFT bank, it does the same thing, only it circles to the left. And when I charge it and launch it with a right bank, it does the tight circles to the right.

It's apparently not a rudder or aileron (warped wing?) problem. If it was that, it would always circle in only one direction, even if I bank it in the other direction.

My main puzzlement, is why it wants to do those tight circles. Once it starts doing that (every flight), it gains very little altitude, and seems to be wasting a lot of energy. I was hoping that it would do large, slow circles with the wings mostly level, and with the direction controlled by slightly displacing the fin.

Anyone else had this problem?
« Last Edit: August 31, 2021, 01:42:48 PM by Little-Acorn » Logged
Little-Acorn
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« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2021, 10:13:41 AM »

Found at https://www.soinc.org/rules-2022

2022 RULES COMING SOON!
2022 Rules PDFs for Division B and C coming soon!

Access your free copy starting at 9:00 am CT on Tuesday, September 7, 2021.

Links here coming on the 7th!

See you then!

Well, it's after 9:00AM Central on Sept. 7, and I can't find the rules where I thought they'd be.

Anybody seen them?
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Little-Acorn
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« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2021, 10:16:11 AM »

I've put together another possible Electric Wright Stuff plane, going by rules from several years ago. The coming rules for this season will likely be different, of course.

This one has a rectangular wing, slightly airfoiled ribs, no taper, and no dihedral. But it does have wingtip fins about an inch high, which I'm told can substitute for dihedral.

It has an odd flight characteristic. When I charge it and launch it, it goes fairly straight and climbs for a short time, then it banks right and start zooming around in pretty tight, fast right circles

The really odd thing is that when I charge it and launch it wit a slight LEFT bank, it does the same thing, only it circles to the left. And when I charge it and launch it with a right bank, it does the tight circles to the right.

It's apparently not a rudder or aileron (warped wing?) problem. If it was that, it would always circle in only one direction, even if I bank it in the other direction.

My main puzzlement, is why it wants to do those tight circles. Once it starts doing that (every flight), it gains very little altitude, and seems to be wasting a lot of energy. I was hoping that it would do large, slow circles with the wings mostly level, and with the direction controlled by slightly displacing the fin.

Anyone else had this problem?

I put BIG tip plates on it, and now it flies level. Just looks strange.
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Little-Acorn
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« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2021, 12:02:45 PM »

Well, it's after 9:00AM Central on Sept. 7, and I can't find the rules where I thought they'd be.

Anybody seen them?

Got 'em.

They put them out through that web page that asks for your name, address, email, etc. etc., every time.

But if this isn't the first time you've filled out that web form, and you use the same email address as last time, they bounce you back to the page before, with a quiet notice at the top that you've used that email before. They don't mention that it's the reason they aren't sending you the rules.

Finally submitted that form for the twelfth time, using a different email address this time, and they emailed me a link that pointed to the 2022 rules. Why they want you to jump through all these hoops is not clear to me.

Back to the subject:

For Electric Wright Stuff, the plane is BIGGER than previous years, and NO GEARBOXES ARE PERMITTED - direct drive only. There goes three years of research with geared drives, which I'm sure are much more efficient.

Wing: 45cm span, 9cm chord maximum.
Stab: 28cm span, 7cm chord maximum.
Weight: 9.5 grams or more, including capacitor, motor, prop etc.
Capacitor: 5F, 3V max.
Motor/prop:[/u] No limits stated, except gearboxes are not allowed, motor must directly drive the propeller. Sounds like no electronics permitted (resistor, voltage regulator etc.) between capacitor and motor.
Charging system: Seems to require "up to two 1.5V Alkaline cells no larger than D size". Most interesting is that "the charging system may only include the battery cells, a battery holder, wiring, connectors, and a resistor". Conspicuous by its absence is any form of meter in the charging system. Fine by me, since two D cells, when fresh, can charge the capacitor up to around 3.2V. And without a meter to monitor charging, you could never tell it did.

BTW, good luck drawing plans for these planes. I can't see a way to draw a 45cm (17.7") wing on an 11x17 sheet of paper, especially leaving margins that most printers seem to require. Unless you cut the wing in half or something, or rotate it diagonally somehow, would still be very tough. Then you'd have little room for the stab, fin(s), fuselage etc. Needs two sheets?

The relatively large stab suggests that it might be useful as a surface lifting upward - canard, anyone? With designs that have the tail in the back ("conventional layout"), the stab usually "lifts" downward.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2021, 12:31:39 PM by Little-Acorn » Logged
leop
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« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2021, 07:05:50 PM »

I use 8.5" by 11" paper for all of my full size plans.  Sometimes, people using my plans just go to a printing center such as FedEx/Kinko and have the plans printed on larger paper.

I print out the plans at home by printing, full size, just a part or section at a time.  Then I tape the separate pages together (with the necessary overlap) to create a single sheet for the full size plans.  To make things easier, I draw lines on my plans to help align the separate sheets.  BTW, this has worked for all of my SO Wright Stuff plans as well as for plans for other indoor free flight models such as my F1D's.

LeoP
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ceandra
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« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2021, 09:59:35 PM »

I'm with LeoP. I usually use Microsoft Publisher to draw up the plans, on a sheet large enough to accommodate. Then I tell publisher to print as "tiled", and I have the tiles overlap by more than the margins (1/2" or more). I then add some diagonal line "stars" along each seam, and when the sheets print, these stars easily line up the multiple sheets. My kids do this for F1D, at 55cm, and LPP at 18".

This looks to be a very flyable plane. I would take two sheets of paper over unflyable any time!

If you properly use your CG and airfoil thicknesses, the stab ought to easily carry some of the load (lifting stab rather than just a control surface). See the planes from several years ago (Cornell) where the stab was as big as the wing, and the CG was well behind the wing. On F1D, the CG is roughly at 86% of the wing, so the stab is doing considerable lifting.

The sizing, weights, etc. look similar to the 2015, 2016 era of good flying planes. They also look relatively similar to a P-18, which we know flies well.

I look forward to helping kids discover the joys of flying with this platform (Notice the similarities between the platform for B and C).

Coach Chuck
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« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2021, 01:10:03 AM »

First two of the new breed, at least for me. Nice being retired.

Both fly, but not real well. A lot to adjust and clean up. Plans coming soon.

Not having a gearbox and normal-sized prop, really bites the big one. But at least they both came in under the new 9.5 gram limit.

Going to have to do a LOT of testing of various motor/prop combinations.

I have no idea which planform will eventually become the best flier.
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« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2021, 12:32:34 PM »

My school just announced SO for this year 21-22 and asked me to coach again.

I can use some help in locating where to source the correct motors and capacitors for the event.  Also switches, chargers, propellers, etc for the planes.  Some of these I can probably figure out but we are behind starting Nov 1.

The planes seem simple enough, similar to the ones used when I coached in the past.

I know nothing about the electrical side of this though.

I would appreciate any advice/help this year.

Jerry Peltz
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« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2021, 12:43:23 PM »

You can find some motors on Amazon, though you have to be careful about RPM. I got mine from Micron Wings, but it is in Australia, so shipping can take some time. Props same place. I bought several different motors form them, still just starting testing.

Caps you can get some from Amazon, or from Digi-key, Newark, Arrow, etc.

Or you may be able to get a full package from J&H Aerospace. I don't know if he is selling power packs yet, or just complete kits. He was putting together a nice package, and the motor/prop/cap is a tested setup that worked for Josh.

If you source individually, there is a lot of testing to be done as this is all new to a lot of us. Generally, if the plane does not climb enough, put on a BIGGER prop, if too much go smaller, either pitch or diameter. This is opposite of rubber!

Coach Chuck
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« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2021, 12:51:57 PM »

You can find some motors on Amazon, though you have to be careful about RPM. I got mine from Micron Wings, but it is in Australia, so shipping can take some time. Props same place. I bought several different motors form them, still just starting testing.

Caps you can get some from Amazon, or from Digi-key, Newark, Arrow, etc.

Or you may be able to get a full package from J&H Aerospace. I don't know if he is selling power packs yet, or just complete kits. He was putting together a nice package, and the motor/prop/cap is a tested setup that worked for Josh.

If you source individually, there is a lot of testing to be done as this is all new to a lot of us. Generally, if the plane does not climb enough, put on a BIGGER prop, if too much go smaller, either pitch or diameter. This is opposite of rubber!

Coach Chuck

Thanks Chuck!

Good advice!

I am going yo be out of town until Nov 3 so i will be even further behind.  I did order a kit from J&H so will build it when I get back as my first attempt.  The plane looks simple as I have done them from J&H, Lasercut Planes and Freedom Flight and my own before.  I am just not sure about the electric side of things.

Jerry
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« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2021, 01:16:36 AM »

Today was the first day we could get into our Middle School's gym, the Covid-averse admins finally yielded.

Coach's plane flew for 1 min 15 sec under the 25ft ceiling. An hour later, one of the student teams flew their just-completed plane (same design) for 1 min 16 sec, beating the coach's best effort.

Video of the coach's flight: https://youtu.be/PnjuV2xipgM  My camera work has not improved, plane flies up out of the frame, sorry. At 0:31 sec the plane collides with a ceiling girder, but fortunately flies on.

Still got work to do to make it competitive, so do the students. But it's a good start. First tournament is in Fullerton on Dec. 4.

Anyone got any pictures and/or videos to share?
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« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2021, 01:17:07 PM »

LA,

Good progress! I haven’t been able to spend much time on EWS. This month was getting four high schools through building 14 WS airplanes and starting the test flying. One team is competing today.

Brian T
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« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2021, 01:08:32 AM »

Brian, great! That's really good work.

What design(s) are they flying? How are their WS flight times so far?
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« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2021, 08:55:15 PM »

LA,

My two teams got first and second place at the Invitational tournament. Small competition with only 25 teams. They are flying a design that borrows from Bill Gowen’s Finny and his F1M. Long tail moment arm, rearward CG, minimal decalage and aggressive rubber winding. Flight times we treat as the student’s private data, so sorry I can’t share.

Sorry to post this in EWS, but wanted to answer your request.

Brian T
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« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2021, 12:57:43 PM »

Brian, fantastic! Congratulations to your teams! They must have put in a lot of work, and smarts.

But about the times, wasn't the tournament public? Anybody could have sat in the stands and looked at his watch.

What covering do you use on your planes?
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« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2021, 07:10:21 PM »

LA,

Yes, I’m happy with how hard my students work. The team of mine that won WS at the Saline Invitational were the AMA National Wright Stuff champion last year; so, they are very good.

And,yes, anybody that attends the tournaments could watch the flying and get the flight times. The reason my students don’t publish times in forums though is that our state, Michigan, is very competitive for Wright Stuff. There are usually about 400 high schools participating in SO in Michigan and about 15-20 schools out of the 60 that qualify for the State Championships fly WS at a high level. Publishing times essentially gives away some of their hoped for competitive advantage.

So, that being said, I have published their flight times at the end of each year and have extensively published the methodology they follow (with details) a number of times in both Scioly.org and in this forum. Teams that want to research our capabilities and methods can read especially the 2015 and 2016 hip pocket WS thread and the same years for WS in Scioly.org.

We learned our techniques from the best, including: Coach Chuck, OlBill, Kang Lee, LeoP, Calgoddard, Frash and many others.

Brian T
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« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2021, 09:54:18 PM »

At the Troy HS Invitational today, Mesa Verde MS's Electric Wright Stuff "Voyager" team turned in a 54-second flight, and came in 3rd in the whole tournament.

Not bad for a couple of 6th graders who had never built a plane before.  Grin

They are very level-headed, hardworking, and did well. Congrats, Mesa Verde!
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« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2021, 04:11:02 PM »

LA,

Great job! You’re students must have been excited to fly so well in competition.

Brian T
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