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Author Topic: Mitsubishi 1MF1  (Read 378 times)
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billdennis747
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« on: October 27, 2021, 05:29:23 AM »

I fell down a Youtube rabbit hole, looking at Tom Hallman's videos, and in particular this model. I want one. However nowhere on the interweb can I find a photo of the scheme. How often does this happen - there are many colour representations of the machine but nothing to back it up. I contacted Tom but he had just used the colour plates. Any Japanese aircraft experts out there who can offer a lead?
Anyway, I learned that this thing was designed by Herbert 'Sopwith' Smith. I thought it looked familiar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFvRffylhh4
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2021, 06:08:48 AM »

Hi Bill,
Some years ago I became a bit obsessed with this aircraft after seeing this page in one of those old Enzo Angelucci ‘World Aircraft’ books.
I also drew a blank on photos until I eventually found this Japanese book in a secondhand book shop somewhere. It has three photos of the type and I think the middle image is the one modelled by Tom Hallman. Maybe someone will come up with a clearer version but anyway I’ll scan it and see if it can be brightened up a bit, which will probably at least bring out the underwing roundels I think. The top picture is a similar machine but with a different tail number.

This last pic is also in the book- looks like another nice model.
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« Last Edit: October 27, 2021, 06:29:31 AM by Pete Fardell » Logged
Pete Fardell
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« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2021, 06:26:32 AM »

I just had a quick Google- did you already find this page?
https://www.armedconflicts.com/Mitsubishi-1MF1-19977-33777-28023-36557-19968-12295-24335-19968-21495-33382-25126-1MF1-t33675

It has this same photo as the one in my book but less clear so I’ll still scan it. (The other photos on there are better though.)
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Re: Mitsubishi 1MF1
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cvasecuk
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« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2021, 07:15:19 AM »

I love his statement, "The wind has got up a bit. Maybe 2 or 3mph" Wow, to fly in winds less than 5mph would be heaven for me!
Ron
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billdennis747
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« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2021, 07:50:43 AM »

I just had a quick Google- did you already find this page?
https://www.armedconflicts.com/Mitsubishi-1MF1-19977-33777-28023-36557-19968-12295-24335-19968-21495-33382-25126-1MF1-t33675

It has this same photo as the one in my book but less clear so I’ll still scan it. (The other photos on there are better though.)
Thanks Pete. Yes I saw that. If we think the bottom picture is R221 then the colour of the fin doesn't match. I think it's going to be one of those subjects that will never be well-substantiated. I had hoped it might be a nice competition model, but no.
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billdennis747
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« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2021, 07:54:54 AM »

I love his statement, "The wind has got up a bit. Maybe 2 or 3mph" Wow, to fly in winds less than 5mph would be heaven for me!
Ron

Yes Ron. I've watched a lot of videos of wonderful US models flying and many of them seem to go very high for a long time and then land within a short amble.
He uses a very long motor; did he say 34"?
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cvasecuk
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« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2021, 07:59:06 AM »

Yes, 34" and ther last flight was 1500 turns.
There are lots of pics here, but How many are authentic is another matter....
https://www.google.com/search?q=1MF1&client=firefox-b-d&sxsrf=AOaemvLbwLpb3hJViSSO1WnYcUdoDree9w:1635335575286&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=x5jFEgL1RIhF9M%252CPiHJdZvelgr7gM%252C_%253BE1Cy66UgxWzA9M%252CcTihubs2IJ1KKM%252C_%253BmG05F-dBd6YwnM%252C_oklP3-JalTPaM%252C_%253BIBy4BWwMWGqtfM%252CuRAMt41qk4uqRM%252C_%253Bm6AhNyW_Yrj8kM%252CZ9gnaFKzgYmSiM%252C_%253BfWWO81KfV033RM%252CtSpR-TwhFy_O3M%252C_%253BBI8Uazlxeq9SOM%252CPvi_SAqRv3s1WM%252C_%253BqZgMJ83Pd_AegM%252CfKEz9XH0JgYZpM%252C_%253BFgxwGSmERdYLRM%252C_WqBmYbAb6aUlM%252C_%253B_N3K-7vZN1m7pM%252CdTDBVw3Aa3rT3M%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kS5WkqV_kfHjIAbw5hROuIPNX9ldA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiEgrbgw-rzAhVKilwKHTH4AiQQ9QF6BAghEAE#imgrc=E1Cy66UgxWzA9M
Ron
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2021, 08:43:24 AM »

If we think the bottom picture is R221 then the colour of the fin doesn't match. I think it's going to be one of those subjects that will never be well-substantiated. I had hoped it might be a nice competition model, but no.
Oh well- I might still do a not-so-nice competition version one day!
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Russ Lister
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« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2021, 09:17:41 AM »

I've still not studied the 'new' indoor intermediate class rules in detail yet. Using this aircraft as an example if you don't mind, is there enough information here to satisfy requirements for that class?
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billdennis747
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« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2021, 11:02:46 AM »

I've still not studied the 'new' indoor intermediate class rules in detail yet. Using this aircraft as an example if you don't mind, is there enough information here to satisfy requirements for that class?
I don't know Russ. Isn't it for kits? But it does say models will be judged 'sympathetically on merit'.
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2021, 11:31:46 AM »

Whatever the static requirement, that class will at least be another opportunity to fly another model on the day, and we don't get many in that nice big hall.
Of course any scale subject at all is good for outdoor flying only contests. Anyway, here are scans of the Mitsubishi pictures in my book, just to add to the general image bank. EDIT: I've just noticed the top one of the pair appears to be a two seater, so possibly not quite an 1MF1 after all. The white (silver?) one is nice though.
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« Last Edit: October 27, 2021, 11:51:31 AM by Pete Fardell » Logged
billdennis747
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« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2021, 11:51:14 AM »

Thanks Pete. It's one of those subjects where the more you look the more complex it gets. That silver one is a 1MF3 with a different nose, fin, ailerons, and what's going on at the aileron hinge line. There are some nice subjects but I doubt there's enough on any of them
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2021, 11:57:12 AM »

Thanks- I really wish I had your observant eye, Bill. In the end, Tom Hallman's approach is probably best for this kind of subject: ie. use whatever info you have, build it as well as you can (amazingly well in his case) and then just fly, fly, fly it!
(That said, I don't suppose there's still a real one hanging in a Japanese museum somewhere is there?)
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2021, 04:47:20 PM »

Another nice page showing some of the different Mitsubishi biplanes: https://japanese-aviation.forumotion.com/t59-03-january-21-1922-to-july-26-1926
They really are rather pretty.
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Indoorflyer
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« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2021, 05:44:21 PM »

Hasn't been mentioned, but in case other interested readers would like a copy of Tom's plan, it is in the HPA Plan Gallery:

https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/details.php?image_id=11248&mode=search


(He also posted a link in the YT video description--on his studio website)
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Squirrelnet
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« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2021, 02:25:00 AM »

What a pretty pre-war aircraft, Tom's flys very nicely too.

I think the one Tom Hallman has modelled is this one - Mitsubshi 1MF1 Type 10-1

http://wp.scn.ru/en/forum/in_focus/1268-65-6

The closest photo I can find the aircraft is this one

https://aviationsmilitaires.net/v3/kb/aircraft/show/4141/mitsubishi-1mf1
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Re: Mitsubishi 1MF1
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Mark Braunlich
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« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2021, 09:45:12 AM »

Tom's Peanut of the same subject on Youtube:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11yXBBjgZ-U
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Mark
billdennis747
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« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2021, 09:59:47 AM »

Thanks all for trying. It seems there is no photographic evidence for this aircraft in that scheme so it's a non-starter for our contests although I still fancy it for the hell of it. Looking at Tom's plan it is clear why it performs like it does but I don't think it would survive, looking like that, for 9 years over here!

PS actually I have just looked at the documentation requirements for the Intermediate class and it seems to say that you can get away with a drawn representation of the markings, even though the photo shows no markings at all. It all comes down to how much 'sympathy' the judges show. Same goes for Flying Only which will once again  have a small workmanship and realism element, so no sympathy needed.
Bill
« Last Edit: October 28, 2021, 10:24:50 AM by billdennis747 » Logged
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