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Author Topic: Herr Fairchild 24 query  (Read 378 times)
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Pete Fardell
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« on: May 13, 2022, 05:35:59 AM »

I’m thinking of starting my Herr Fairchild kit soon. Has anyone built one of these? On this photo of the uncovered model, the nose looks a bit too narrow and/or too long to me and I’m wondering if I can somehow make it a bit more scale-like? Or does it just look wrong because of all the stringers, in which case infill or a sheeted cowling might be the answer. There’s quite a variety of cowls on real examples but here are a couple for comparison…
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Herr Fairchild 24 query
Herr Fairchild 24 query
Herr Fairchild 24 query
Herr Fairchild 24 query
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billdennis747
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« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2022, 05:46:37 AM »

Pete, yes it does look wrong around the front. They've tapered the fuselage too much at the windscreen area and so the cowling diameter is too small. And of course they've eliminated the cowl/fuselage step. There was a review in Aeromodeller in the 90's (?) and I recall it's on the cover.
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billdennis747
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« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2022, 06:16:30 AM »

PS AM back in the days when they couldn't even date it properly. April/May 1999
PPS In that issue I like the photo of Charlie, Derek, Pete and Richard. I took it and it was perfect indoor flying weather!
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Re: Herr Fairchild 24 query
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2022, 08:05:34 AM »

Thanks Bill, I have got that issue and will dig it out again, but I seem to remember the Herr kit review completely fudges the issue of the inaccurate nose shape by saying something like, “This model represents one of the newer, longer cowled versions”!

I’ve always liked that “partners in crime” photo, and it’s funny that it should include Peter Smart because over breakfast this morning I was reading Eric Coates’s column in the June ‘74 AM. He’s reporting on an indoor meeting at Cardington where the “new face” who turned up with three CO2 models was none other than Pete Smart. He successfully flew all three on an interchangeable Brown motor, including this Antoinette that, in a portent of years to come, got too high and hit the girders!
Eric also outlines the Scale Tech Committee of the S.M.A.E.’s thinking behind ithe UK’s then brand new (and not yet tested) Peanut class, particularly the importance of the UK rules differing from the already established duration based US version. His words are suddenly very topical again and with Mike asking us what we think about the controversial 2022 Peanut rules I might just say, “Let’s put them back again, because of what Eric Coates said in 1974”.
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Re: Herr Fairchild 24 query
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danmellor
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« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2022, 08:12:00 AM »

This must be a kit that I really, if subconsciously, want to build. Sold Pete his example, then promptly bought another. 8.2% Westons strikes again...! I always thought the cowl looked wrong.

Cheers,

Dan.

PS No, there is no apostrophe in "Westons" on the label. I am drinking one now, so I checked.
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2022, 08:15:05 AM »

You gave me a good deal on that kit, Dan, so thanks again! I suspect you lost good beer money by buying it again, but perhaps not.
So. What are we going to do about the cowl?
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Gary Dickens
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« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2022, 08:38:59 AM »

Dan, you drank an apostrophe?
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billdennis747
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« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2022, 08:44:57 AM »


Eric also outlines the Scale Tech Committee of the S.M.A.E.’s thinking behind ithe UK’s then brand new (and not yet tested) Peanut class, particularly the importance of the UK rules differing from the already established duration based US version. His words are suddenly very topical again and with Mike asking us what we think about the controversial 2022 Peanut rules I might just say, “Let’s put them back again, because of what Eric Coates said in 1974”.
Peanut has always  gone through periods of hegemony by certain types, reinforced by experts flying them. First was Andrew Barr's diaphanous Piper Cub, quickly  followed by the FikingLacey era. Then it was Santos Dumonts. More recently biplanes and now it is swinging back to HWMs. Perhaps the rules should be changed every two years!
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danmellor
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« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2022, 09:32:15 AM »

If and when I get into gear and build it, it would probably be the inline version. Probably less work to cut the extra bits than to rework the entire nose.

Cheers,

Dan.
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danmellor
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« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2022, 09:52:27 AM »

If it's a prospective KS build, then none of this matters. Stick to the plan and all will be well.

Cheers,

Dan.
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DHnut
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« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2022, 03:38:01 PM »

Pete,
        I agree with Dan. The fuselage is too shallow by about 20 mm at the cockpit area when viewed against the Trigg drawing and that then impacts on the rest of the outline. Stan and I have looked at the model in some depth and not had the enthusiasm to build the kit.
Ricky
 
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« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2022, 03:55:06 PM »

Love your shot from AM Bill

Assuming you are not looking at Kit Scale but Flying Only, it's a nice looking aircraft could you not just do your usual build process and do a new front end from the scale drawing . Could be as easy as widening the fuselage at the screen and using correct diameter nose formers for the cowling, plus adding the cowling step back too. The rest of it looks good and well Pete Fardell without a Fairchild doesn't bare thinking about  Grin
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2022, 04:14:55 PM »

Thanks, Dan and Ricky- it's good to have a rough idea of where the kit went wrong.

Chris, thanks too, and yes I'm now thinking the same. I don't want to enter it in KS but I do want something that at first glance looks vaguely right (or rightish anyway). If I made the nose formers the right diameter, I wonder if could widen it at the windscreen as you suggested, but also straighten the underside of the nose to still give it enough depth. This is a fuselage drawing I just found with Google. Not sure if it's the same one Ricky mentioned? Other pic is the Fairchild I might do; I like the cowl bumps and they might distract the eye away from any compromises elsewhere.
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Re: Herr Fairchild 24 query
Re: Herr Fairchild 24 query
« Last Edit: May 13, 2022, 04:30:15 PM by Pete Fardell » Logged
Squirrelnet
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« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2022, 04:32:09 PM »

I like the colour scheme, very attractive and cowling bumps sound like a cunning plan

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I wonder if could widen it at the windscreen as you suggested, but also straighten the underside of the nose to still give it enough depth


My suspicion is that using the correct diameter nose formers will solve this problem as well. Given you're looking at flying only and the chosen Fairchild has a larger cowling than the nose, the cowling step could easily be done with a black line rather than a physical step as your extended diameter cowling will help give the effect anyway ?
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2022, 04:54:20 PM »

I'm not saying it's why I chose it, but that particular Fairchild has no wing letters top or bottom, just all over, easily sprayable white! Result! Only the pinstripe around the red might prove a little tricky.

the cowling step could easily be done with a black line rather than a physical step as your extended diameter cowling will help give the effect anyway ?
Good idea. I might still do a groove, and colour that black I think.
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DHnut
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« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2022, 05:23:18 PM »

Pete,
        I am happy to send you a scan of my drawings. Also beware of the change in fin shape from the early airctaft and nose length in the switch from 4 to 6 cylinder engines. I also think the Ridiong plan is not too far off.
Ricky
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2022, 05:28:27 PM »

Thanks Ricky- but don't send me anything yet. I'll have a look at the kit plan and experiment with it against photos first. I'm a bit worried that if I start looking too closely at good drawings, or thinking about the different versions, I'll get a bit bogged down. In fact, if the kit looked just a little less wrong I'd probably just build it as is and be done with.
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2022, 09:54:08 AM »

Well that’s interesting… If I blow up either the fus drawing I posted in reply #12, or this 3-view (which is in the same edition of AM as the kit review) to an equivalent scale as the model then I find that the kit cowling dimensions are actually very close to what they should be.
Correct dimensions (from blowing up 3-view to 30” span): Diameter at back end of cowling:70mm. Nose length from front of windscreen to front of cowl: about 55mm. Front cowl diameter: 69mm.
So I’m still at a loss as to why it looks quite so wrong. The only difference really is that it tapers a bit too much towards the front, but only by a couple of mm. Kit plan photo also attached, and to me it looks better on paper than it does on the built up photos. What I think I might do, is build it almost as per plan, with maybe just a slightly bigger front circle, then infill the rear cowling stringers, and sheet around the front cowling, forward of the step.

Then again, I might yet do Dan’s idea of just doing the inline version, which is also shown on the kit plan (last pic).
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Re: Herr Fairchild 24 query
Re: Herr Fairchild 24 query
Re: Herr Fairchild 24 query
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billdennis747
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« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2022, 11:17:07 AM »

Puzzling, but it's definitely wrong. Partly the curve under the front, which should be continuous. Perhaps the lack of separate cowling gives an optical illusion but it still looks too long. If I put dividers on the side views, the ratio of full nose length back to wing LE: wing chord is well out.
And the UC leg rake is too much. Small things but they are noticeable. As always - suit yourself!
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2022, 12:06:54 PM »

Thanks, Bill. I think the lack of a continuous bottom line, and no separate front cowl, are perhaps the biggest problems aesthetically, but they’re also fairly easily fixable/fudgable. Here is a direct comparison with the nose from the drawing blown up to the same scale, and again with the accurate nose crudely laid over the plan. The nose from front of cowl right back to the wing LE is indeed longer on the kit plan, by about 4mm. You’re right about the wing chord too; the kit’s wing is about 9mm too narrow. Window dimensions are also wrong and doubtless much else as well. I think I’ll plough on regardless though, and just concentrate on getting a better looking front end.

(I do sometimes yearn for my long lost boyhood building days when I was satisfied that a model was a ‘scale model’ just because it had a cockpit and its fuselage wasn’t a stick!)
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Re: Herr Fairchild 24 query
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Nigel M
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« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2022, 04:04:13 PM »

I think the cylindrical cowl on the kit is the main optical culprit. On the full size, both cowls taper slightly, at least to my eye, so the front cowl rear diameter looks to step out from the front diameter of the rear portion. Also, the front curvature may be eliptical rather than a simple arc? Ricky - do you know?

Iff one were inclined to KS competition, to keep it within KS rules, could one pick a slightly thick bit of balsa and sand in the taper...? Or generously sand the forward formers?  Grin

Completely off topic but similar comparison the cowl on the Keilkraft Ladybird is 'a bit ugly' compared to, say, a Beaver's composite shape.

HTH. Looking forward to watching the build, Peter, thanks for posting as always.
Nigel
« Last Edit: May 15, 2022, 04:23:04 PM by Nigel M » Logged
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