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Author Topic: Winders, winding stooge, torque meters, winding methods  (Read 37968 times)
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Olbill
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« Reply #175 on: September 30, 2010, 04:36:13 PM »

Counters become more desirable as the flier ages. Kang is too young to grasp that. Tony? He must be older than he looks!
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Olbill
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« Reply #176 on: September 30, 2010, 05:47:11 PM »

My new supply of aluminum arrived today.
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Art356A
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« Reply #177 on: September 30, 2010, 06:30:35 PM »

If it's built to the plan, there will be room to add the rotor, sensor and counter afterwards. Or, it can be built 5/16" thinner and, as the memory starts to go, it can be widened with little cost and effort to make room for the switch and rotor. Actually, the first one I made that had a counter had those parts added on outside the frame.

I built the first ones without a counter because 1:20 isn't that hard to deal with. And (Bill, you would know better than most of us) once the pro starts to feel feedback, doesn't he switch off to the torquemeter? Or do you use them both together?

Here's this morning's project. I adapted the Cub3L to my old K&P 1:15. Works fine, for a K&P, but working with the Frazer-Nashes has spoiled me a little.

Art.
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Olbill
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« Reply #178 on: October 01, 2010, 09:22:45 PM »

I've had a couple of requests for a gm-cm version of my meter so am adding that to the offering.
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Tapio Linkosalo
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« Reply #179 on: October 02, 2010, 02:06:27 AM »

Can you do it with the same mechanics? Probably not?

When I was building my version, I spent some time fooling around with the different units (grams, ounces, grains etc.) trying to figure out if there were two that were related at 1:71 to each other, so that by selecting the units you could jump from g*cm to oz*in. But did not find any such combination...
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Art356A
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« Reply #180 on: October 02, 2010, 10:57:19 AM »

Am I just too simple, or am I missing something here?

Why not make the arm a cm long rather than an inch and use the gram rather than the ounce mode on your scale?
 
Or, better yet, you could make an arm that flips over, a cm on one side and an inch on the other with a little weight on it so it would be balanced. Then change scale modes to match the arm in use. The pivot would have to be just a little higher than an inch off the deck.
 
Art.
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« Reply #181 on: October 02, 2010, 12:47:42 PM »

You'd probably have to change the pressure arm coming off the torque wire to a 1 cm length to get the correct reading. Changing the scale to read out in grams is usually just a press of a button on most of the commercial scales.
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Tapio Linkosalo
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« Reply #182 on: October 03, 2010, 02:34:11 AM »

Pit, right to the point. I was wondering (thinking aloud) if it would be possible to construct the torque meter so that you could just "switch the scale" between g*cm and in*oz, but I suppose that would not be possible, as you would need to also change the mechanical geometry of the meter.
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« Reply #183 on: October 03, 2010, 05:53:11 PM »

Actually, such a mod would not be too difficult. An interchangeable (or sliding) "pressure" arm and some way of adjusting the torque wire position to keep the pressure arm centered.
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Art356A
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« Reply #184 on: October 03, 2010, 07:04:13 PM »

Guys, you're making yourselves crazy. Page 3 reply 69 pic 1 shows the current version of mine before the hook was bent. Reply 71, 1st pic shows it in place. The frames are attached to the board with one screw each. Back the screw off the rear frame a quarter turn, twist the frame 45° CCW and the back end of the arm assy falls out. Pick up the tail and unthread the hook from the front frame. Replace it with a centimeter arm, reset the modes on your scale and you're back in business.
My scale doesn't need to have the arm come down exactly in the center; wherever on the tray (even on the corners) you place a test weight, it registers the same. Obviously, I don't know about yours. I guess you could mark an "X" in the center of the tray and move the scale so it aligns.

Pit's idea is good, too. You could have both arms (inch and cm) extend off the same side of the centershaft, but separated enough so the scale could be moved back and forth to engage one or the other.

I wouldn't bother with it personally, because in my country we still cling to the ancient systems. We have metric screws in all our cars, but we still torque them to footpounds. Go figure.

Art.
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frash
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« Reply #185 on: October 04, 2010, 10:49:55 AM »

This has been an absolutely wonderful thread. Thanks to all of you. Now for a strange question, but don't let it sidetrack your current projects that you are reporting here.

More than 50 years ago, probably in the early 1950s in a model magazine or a automotive tire maker's brochure, I saw a drawing or sketch of a rubber motor for model planes or toy cars that was based in stretching a rubber motor, not twisting it. There were 2 small spools of the same diameter and geared together 3:1. (Art356A's chain drive would be good!) When the crank on the "storage" spool was turned manually, the "power" spool rotated faster to stretch the thin rubber strip. When the crank was released, the stretched rubber strip rewound loosely onto the "storage" spool and spun a prop or wheel, probably on the "storage" spool. This description is undoubtedly garbled after 50 years. Can anyone find a reference or reproduce this? Today's rubber would require a higher gear ratio, but can this actually work?

Fred Rash
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Art356A
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« Reply #186 on: October 04, 2010, 02:06:28 PM »

Fred, think of it in terms of multi-engines.
a.
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Art356A
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« Reply #187 on: October 04, 2010, 05:31:46 PM »

This is the final version. The frames can be made of any stiff material, like aluminum, Lexan, phenolic, even plywood. There's only one critical solder joint and one moderately critical dimension. It can be built with this counter for less than $75, or less than $30 with no counter.
Any reasonably equipped modeler's shop should support it (a drill press is advisable).

Art.
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Olbill
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« Reply #188 on: October 04, 2010, 07:18:13 PM »

It's the same except I have to move the load cell to give a one cm arm. I don't know a way to make it switchable from one unit to another.
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Art356A
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« Reply #189 on: October 04, 2010, 08:14:32 PM »

Bill, how about this? A second hook shaft, 1.54" to the left of the existing one and parallel to it, with a cm long pressure arm shaped so it arches over the top of the existing one and lands in more or less the same spot on the scale tray. Use either arm and swing the unwanted one CCW out of the way. Or you could leave them both resting on the tray and zero them out that way, and then use either the inch or the cm arm as desired.

Art.
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Olbill
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« Reply #190 on: October 05, 2010, 05:07:54 PM »

Bill, how about this? A second hook shaft, 1.54" to the left of the existing one and parallel to it, with a cm long pressure arm shaped so it arches over the top of the existing one and lands in more or less the same spot on the scale tray. Use either arm and swing the unwanted one CCW out of the way. Or you could leave them both resting on the tray and zero them out that way, and then use either the inch or the cm arm as desired.

That would probably work but a dual reading meter would add complexity and cost. To me the point is that someone who wants gm-cm is not going to be interested in in-oz and vice-verse. All I have to do to offer both models is drill the load cell holes in a different location and make a shorter arm. I will probably add the alternate load cell hole locations to my drilling fixture so I can drill the 2 pieces to either spec.
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Tapio Linkosalo
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« Reply #191 on: October 06, 2010, 12:59:46 AM »

Agreed with Bill. All this started from me wondering, if would be possible to make the torque meter so that you could push button and select the display between g*cm and oz*in; the same way that on a scale you can select between grams and ozes. Looks like it is not possible. So it does not make sense to construct unit that does both.
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Olbill
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« Reply #192 on: October 09, 2010, 12:41:53 PM »

After a couple of false starts I've settled on FliteTork as the name for my electronic torque meter. The latest instruction sheet is attached below.
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Art356A
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« Reply #193 on: October 13, 2010, 12:34:01 PM »

I owe Bill and Tapio an apology. Sorry. My bad. I've never been really good with conversions.

Making a torque meter that reads both oz/ins and gm/cms isn't easy at all. It would be if a cm were 2.54 inches long, as I thought it was until about an hour ago. But I found out that it's only .39 inches long, and that would be a problem, wouldn't it?

Apologies again,
Art.
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Olbill
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« Reply #194 on: October 13, 2010, 03:32:09 PM »

No problem Art.

I'm starting a new batch of meters today. I'm drilling all of them for in-oz units. A gm-cm meter will have an extra pair of holes but they're hidden by the load cell.
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Tapio Linkosalo
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« Reply #195 on: February 25, 2011, 02:35:28 AM »

Returning to the subject of winders:
Art, you mention "Servo City" in one of your messages. Is it those sprockets and chain that you use in the winder? The plastic chain goes onto the sprockets that also take the metal chain?

I have been thinking about building a state-of-the-art winder for P-30, as there seems to be no good ones available commercially? My current is a home-made egg-whisker with 1:5 ratio, and it is awfully slow to use for 6 strand motors, so I have considered a ratio of 1:8 or even 1:10. As I do not know for sure what ratio would be ideal, the use of chain and sprockets would make it easy to experiment and change the ratio (with gears I'd need to move some of the axis if changing gears). I think an ideal solution might be to use 1:2 bevel gears to turn the rotation plane 90 degrees (planning similar setup as for a F1B winder), and then use chain for another 1:4 to 1:5 link. Too bad servo city does not sell bevel gears....
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« Reply #196 on: February 25, 2011, 08:46:06 AM »

Tapio,
There is a superb commercially available P-30 winder:
 http://www.gizmogeezer.com/winder.htm

I have one and I like it very much. the only drawback is the 1:5 ratio which I think is too low for long P-30 motors. Apparently they are working on a 1:10 modification.

Tony
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Tapio Linkosalo
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« Reply #197 on: February 25, 2011, 09:02:51 AM »

Ok, that looks good. and cheap. At 50 bucks it would be a bargain just to get the gears, even if you had to do the modification to 10:1 ratio (added 2:1 gears and reverse the winding side) yourself. Thanks for the tip!

Even then, if you need to have both the bevel and straight gears, it would make a more compact and solid design to have the 1:2 gear in the bevels and the 1:5 in straight gears...
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« Reply #198 on: March 01, 2011, 11:54:08 AM »

With my entry into the realm of indoor Peanuts and Pistachios, I discovered that my basic 5:1 winder was just too slow. This thread got me digging thru my junk box, turning up an old, but never used hand crank fuel pump (part of my RC "retired" stockpile). It has a pretty complex gearing, but the pump drive gear is a pressed-in 2.5mm shaft (the pump itself is simply screwed onto the gear casing).

After removing the pump, I gave the crank a full turn (silky smooth), counting 21 revs of the output shaft. A new 2.5mm shaft, a new bearing plate and thrust bearing = 21:1 new winder.

Now to build a torque meter.
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« Reply #199 on: March 01, 2011, 12:21:18 PM »

By the way I received a digital torque meter from Olbill recently. I can say that it is nicely made and seems to work very well. I think it's well worth the money and I recommend it to anyone that wants an accurate torque meter for indoor models.

A larger version would work well for P-30 or Coupe! Grin

Tmat
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