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Author Topic: Winders, winding stooge, torque meters, winding methods  (Read 37984 times)
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Dan Snow
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« Reply #375 on: February 10, 2019, 02:09:56 PM »

Thanks for the info  George and Mike.

I picked 20 in/oz as a starting point because I will be building primarily in the 16+ wingspan. Below that things get a mite too tiny and delicate for these old fumble fingers.

I measured the planes I have and the average peg to hook is in the 7-8" range. My Otter, 22" and the upcoming Chieftain 26" will be longer at 8.5' and 9.5" respectively. two

I have enough bits to make 2 meters so might make 2 different ones.

George, any chance of getting a copy of your chart?  I have some .047 and some .031 wire.
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Dan Snow
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« Reply #376 on: February 11, 2019, 07:13:33 AM »

I went back and went over the instructions again and I think I have things figured out.

So I'm planning to build one with  6 " of .031" wire that will give 12 in/oz at 258.8 degrees.  If I do the calculations correctly that should give the following:
4 in/oz = 86.3 deg
6 in/oz = 129.4 deg
8 in/oz = 172.6 deg
10 in/oz = 215.7 deg
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Dan Snow
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« Reply #377 on: March 07, 2019, 01:31:45 PM »

I haven't started making the torque meter yet for many reasons, life stuff, interruptions etc etc.  And I still have questions. For the mathematically impaired is there a source one could go to to look up say, recommended torque for given motor?

Ideally is there somewhere I can see a chart that recommends torque "X" for "Y" strands of "Z" rubber?
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RalphS
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« Reply #378 on: March 07, 2019, 02:07:26 PM »

Dan,  I recommend the late John Barker's (Hepcat on this site) PROP PICKER Excel spreadsheet.  I don't know if John left a copy on here but I could send it through to you if you PM me.  I know that John used to refine his lovely mathmatical solutions from time to time and I know that my copy is a very early version.  Jon (Yak52 on this site) may have a later version so it may be worth asking him.

John also produced some simple solutions for torque meter wire selection, wire length for home produced torque meters.

Ralph
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frash
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« Reply #379 on: March 07, 2019, 02:16:33 PM »


Turns, Torque Calculator for Super Sport Rubber (Revised 2014-10-05) (frash)
Tips, Tools and other Helpful Stuff

Date added: 10.05.2014 19:00


Home / Miscellaneous / Tips, Tools and other Helpful Stuff

If you are willing to work in grams for weight and inches for length, this one in the plans section may work for you.

Fred Rash
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applehoney
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« Reply #380 on: March 07, 2019, 03:36:31 PM »

Dan,   I see little purpose in such a chart trying to provide firm torque values for various strands of rubber, the properties of which can vary from batch to batch - even from ends of same batch -  and whether the motor is new or used ... and how much used.    Furthermore, meters do not necessarily agree with each other so the only reading that matters is that shewn by your unit.  One meter can serve for most all outdoor models ...  a more delicate version for indoor use.

In my experience the sole practical purpose of the essential torque meter is for consistency in the flying ability of a model.   When such is fully trimmed to maximum performance upon its chosen strands and weight and the torque duly noted then the model may be flown with any similar motors wound to that value, regardless of any energy variances between such, with confidence that its power pattern will be consistent.  Motors should be made to weight, not length.

After acquiring a meter, many years ago, I soon dispensed with a counter after I noticed how the number of turns varied between several apparently similar motors wound to same torque; or the same wound for a second time.

Keep notes of the full-trim torque reading for every model you fly so that you can reference same when one is aired after a lengthy period of disuse, confident it will fly as before.  Assuming no warps crept in meantime, of course  Smiley
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 04:38:06 PM by applehoney » Logged
Olbill
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« Reply #381 on: March 07, 2019, 04:53:10 PM »

Dan,   I see little purpose in such a chart trying to provide firm torque values for various strands of rubber, the properties of which can vary from batch to batch - even from ends of same batch -  and whether the motor is new or used ... and how much used.    Furthermore, meters do not necessarily agree with each other so the only reading that matters is that shewn by your unit.  One meter can serve for most all outdoor models ...  a more delicate version for indoor use.

In my experience the sole practical purpose of the essential torque meter is for consistency in the flying ability of a model.   When such is fully trimmed to maximum performance upon its chosen strands and weight and the torque duly noted then the model may be flown with any similar motors wound to that value, regardless of any energy variances between such, with confidence that its power pattern will be consistent.  Motors should be made to weight, not length.

After acquiring a meter, many years ago, I soon dispensed with a counter after I noticed how the number of turns varied between several apparently similar motors wound to same torque; or the same wound for a second time.

Keep notes of the full-trim torque reading for every model you fly so that you can reference same when one is aired after a lengthy period of disuse, confident it will fly as before.  Assuming no warps crept in meantime, of course  Smiley

I wish these last few messages could be moved to a more appropriate topic. This topic is for indoor flying and I would disagree with nearly all of the points in the above reply if they were applied to indoor flying. A beginning indoor flyer trying to learn about choosing and winding motors would be totally misled if he tried to apply these points to competitive indoor flying.
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applehoney
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« Reply #382 on: March 07, 2019, 07:29:49 PM »

Bill, I now see that when you commenced this thread it was posted to 'Indoor Discussions', as shown in small print at the top of the page for any who choose to seek such subject. However, there's nothing in the heading description to indicate that it's dedicated to that sole purpose  and, in the subsequent nine years (all but a month) it's obvious that content has segued into more general discussion on meters, etc. from its early pages and, as is evident, the title attracts flyers from all rubber flying pursuits

I understand that Indoor and Outdoor F/F require very different skills and techniques. I note that you disagree with most of my post in what appeared to be a general subject but would be interested to hear in what way that might be so.   After all, rubber is rubber and whether utilised for either flying purpose it has the same basic variances; however, I readily concede that  the relatively thin strandage and minimal lengths required of Indoor motors probably reduces such effect to a minimum compared to the amount of material required by outdoor motors.

I do contend that meters are not identical and that the only inch/ounce readings one should rely upon are those from one's own scale; also that a meter is the only guide to gaining similar initial energy availability from varied motors for consistent climb performance patterns once a model has been trimmed for maximum performance,

I feel these aspects apply equally to both Indoor and Outdoor flying but would be very happy, without ranquor, to learn if this is not so in some ways. I admit that I do not fly Indoor in any form but my  thoughts are directed by personal observations regarding same as Team Manager at three World Championships

Regards  - Jim




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Dan Snow
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« Reply #383 on: March 07, 2019, 09:24:15 PM »

Sorry guys, didn't mean to start an inter-discipline kerfuffle here. In defense when a while back I did a search for winders and torque meters this thread came up and I didn't catch that it was indoor related.

Look at it from my point of view.  While I have many years experience flying radio controlled models, 99.9% of my rubber powered model experience began last August. The language and terminology regarding rubber motors is completely foreign and unintelligible to me. I have an idea of the power and usefulness of say a .35 engine versus a .60 engine, that sort of thing.  But looking at a model and determining it needs so much rubber, of such and such a size wound to such and such a torque? Not a clue.

I've tried to suss things out from Don Ross's book, and wandered through different threads here, but so far the light bulb hasn't gone on.  That's why I asked the question. I'm just a retired guy trying to learn a new hobby in a location that has very few participants so I don't have someone I can get together with over coffee and talk about rubber models and learn.
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