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Author Topic: ABET v 1.0......a WIP project  (Read 1010 times)
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7homuz
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« on: June 12, 2010, 01:23:27 AM »

Hey! I've been lurking around this forum for the past few days now... I can't get over how it separates all the different classes of planes! brilliant! Grin Just started on a new P30 project, version 1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0.0.0.0.0 Huh of my new ABET model... I plan on working with this design and refining it over a period of time... something I've only started with on one other design but stopped halfway.... hopefully I will be able to keep at it with this design and keep experimenting with small changes!

Finished drawing up the wings/stab/fin and all the ribs and different parts for the flying surfaces today, so I decided to start working on it, even though I haven't resolved all the issues with the fuselage yet.

Rolled up a nice fuse, tapered from around 20mm down to around 10mm dia. over 28.5" length....will have to wait till i resolve the fuse drawings on the comp before I do anymore work on it though.

Started cutting out the wing ribs, hopefully will get most of the cutting done by tonight.
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ABET v 1.0......a WIP project
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jswain
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« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2010, 02:49:38 PM »

Great stuff, Keep posting here with your results.

P30 and hand launch allow you to "roll your own" in a relatively short amount of time and refine the results while the enthusiasm is still there.

take care, john s.
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7homuz
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« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2010, 03:24:52 AM »

thanks Smiley Worked on it for a couple hours after mowing the lawn and flying (losing) a model I just finished on its 2nd flight.... so....

Progress is slow , but it's coming along.... finished the center panel of the wing (3 panels total) at 3.9 grams pre-sanding... I suspect the whole wing will end up around 7 grams finished, which is lower then I thought it would be with all that structure.
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Re: ABET v 1.0......a WIP project
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7homuz
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« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2010, 07:39:17 PM »

Finished the wings today, came out to a very nice weight.

Working on tail surfaces now.

I hope I get the mylar I ordered before I'm done with the model... I would like to cover it with tissue over mylar, but if not then I guess plain esaki will be fine as well. Tongue
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Re: ABET v 1.0......a WIP project
Re: ABET v 1.0......a WIP project
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7homuz
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« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2010, 08:36:16 PM »

In case anyone is following this at all, I've finished all the bones, at 14.1 (or something like that.... can't remember clearly Roll Eyes) grams, it's leaving a lot of room to play around to get the weight up.

Been covering it with tissue, since i'm too impatient to wait for my mylar to come.... decided to try thinned PVA.... but now when Im trying to shrink the tissue it wont shrink! My only idea is that Since the tissue has been sitting around for a couple years since I last built anything.... it must have gotten wet from something (humidity!???!?!) and shrunk by itself over the time. The only part that was okay was where I covered it wet, but not the tail and the undercambered areas, looks like i'll need to strip the tissue and wait for my shipment after all! Sad

Anyone know of a good way to take off PVA-glued tissue?
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applehoney
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« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2010, 09:09:56 PM »

I doubt that age has had much to do with your problem, Thomas. I've never experienced any humidity-based shrinkage of tissue stored .... and a small proportion of my Japanese tissue dates back to the latter 30's, as purchased years ago from a onetime modeller, and it's fine to use.
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7homuz
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« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2010, 09:39:34 PM »

Maybe it's just me then... I've just covered my last plane from the same batch of tissue (different color, just had enough for that plane though) and it was fine.

I tried to shrink it again, and all the water just beads up on the surface, any ideas?
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faif2d
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« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2010, 09:34:34 AM »

Try using a soft brush to scrub the water into the tissue, I heard of this problem with the Esaki silver and with printed tissue but not with unaltered stuff.
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I used to like painting with dope but now I can't remember why!    Steve Fauble
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« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2010, 07:09:27 PM »

I am going to stick my fingers in the fanblades on this one -

I have been using minwax pva on my hand launch FF gliders and rc gliders specifically because it *doesn't* shrink the wood.

if you have the heart to do it , consider removing tissue and using 1 or 2 thinned (50/50) coats of nitrate dope from Brodak dopes & thinners from a Canadian hobby dealer.

Best wishes and nice work, john s.
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7homuz
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« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2010, 08:58:13 PM »

Thanks faif2d, I tried that but it didn't work either?!?!?! Maybe I'm just having a BAD covering job Huh

I think I will strip it, but will probably wait for my stuff to come and do tissue over mylar. I haven't used Brodak before, any diffn'ce from Sig nitrate dope?
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jswain
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« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2010, 10:33:10 AM »

Hi.

I don't think there is any significant difference between manufacturers other than for me - i had to mail order the Brodak because the LHS's don't carry these products anymore. Tissue covering can be difficult especially when your trying to apply and just barely tighten the tissue at the same time on the open frame- i have always wanted that third and fourth hand that understood what the first and second hands are doing Grin

 found this on sig nitrate dope - http://www.sigmfg.com/cgi-bin/dpsmart.exe/MainMenuFV5.html?E+Sig
"Nitrate Clear Dope
Nitrate clear dope is primarily intended to prepare model surfaces for a painted finish. Nitrate acts as a sealer for bare wood and uncoated covering materials, and its application establishes a well bonded base for most commonly used model paints. Fast drying. High gloss. Often preferred over butyrate dope in many modeling applications because of its unique chemical characteristics.
Check these advantages:
Better adhesion to most structures and coverings than butyrate dope
Controlled shrinkage - Nitrate dope shrinks only a moderate amount compared to butyrate
Helps eliminate warps and dope "blisters" at sharp 90O corners
Higher solid content than butyrate dope for faster filling
Compatible with most model paints - Nitrate dope is often used to seal the bare model surfaces and provides a good base for finishing with butyrate dope, enamel, or epoxy paints
Ideal for use alone on light free-flight rubber models where fuel proofing is not necessary.
 
********************************

found this on sig-lite coat - "Because of the high shrinkage of regular Supercoat clear butyrate dope, it can sometimes warp a thin or lightly built balsa model. To help eliminate this problem, Lite-Coat low-shrink clear butyrate dope was developed as a substitute in some applications. Lite-Coat has the exact same handling characteristics and high gloss of Supercoat clear, but with a lot less shrinkage. In fact, they are completely compatible and intermixable"
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7homuz
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« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2010, 09:32:58 PM »

Thanks,

I used dope when I first started, but have since changed to gluestick because of its availability and more importantly its (lack of) smell....

I cover wet and gluestick has always been fine, just won't work for the undercambered wings, maybe i'll have to break out my can of sig nitrate again. Sad
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applehoney
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« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2010, 11:35:54 PM »

Quote
any diffn'ce from Sig nitrate

A better source is the factor at the local airport.  A gallon of full strength nitrate is worth the purchase price as it will serve you for years, thinning as you go, and be far cheaper in the long term. A couple of gallons of thinner from same source is a good investment, too.

I've heard suggestion that Sig dope is already partially thinned, for commercial reasons.
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7homuz
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« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2010, 03:47:21 AM »

Never thought about that before, seems like a good idea, may give it a shot when i run out of stuff the smell is still a problem though, especially since my 'workshop' is also my bedroom. I am able to do almost all the modelling from within its confines, with the exception of heavy sanding and (recently) airbrushing. For convenience sake dope may not be the best choice for me.

On the other hand, i remember you saying a couple years ago how you think brushed dope is still better at sealing than stuff that is sprayed, is that right? i haven't brushed anything on my models for a while, been using Krylon and recently future as my 'sealers'
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applehoney
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« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2010, 10:25:54 AM »

Thomas, I tried Krylon when it was first vaunted as a replacement for dope and it did nothing for me. Covering never attained the same tautness and strength as with nitrate and the claims for it being waterproof fell by the wayside at the first hint of humidity. I threw it out, have never tried Future and I very much doubt I will.

However these are my personal comments and feelings only. I'm well aware that many use these products and are happy with the results and I am not attempting to discourage them from employing same. It may be that the type of models I build are more dependent upon structural stability, etc. than other variations on our common theme and thus nitrate better suits my needs.

I've never sprayed dope. I feel that with the 75% thinner mix I use spraying might lose a proportion of same 'in the air' with lesser penetration of the nitrate into the fibres of the tissue - but this is speculation without foundation.
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7homuz
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« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2010, 03:17:29 PM »

I'll give it a shot again sometime i suppose. I've always felt spraying it always seemed like its just going on the surface, and brushing it seemed to let it 'soak' through a lot more, just as you say. I've never really felt a flying performance difference though, but I guess I didn't pay much attention to it, and there's so many other variables. different strokes for different folks!
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7homuz
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« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2010, 01:23:03 AM »

Ruined the covering from rushing and trying to finish it on time for today's meet (along with my peanut mustang Sad) but was able to re-cover with tissue over mylar and am pretty satisfied with my result so far

A slight bit over-weight at 40.8 grams w/o ballast, bad judgement call on painting the fuse i suppose (but i'm sick of seeing blue/red airplanes everywhere! Roll Eyes)

Didn't get to fly it today at the meet -- too windy, everyone was grounded. there's another meet in 2 weeks so hopefully i can get it airborne by then. There's a small number of changes i can think of already, 1 of which is I want to try a twin fin layout. I've tried that before and I remember it worked quite well.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs093.snc4/35996_1428816653874_1636560054_1056336_5937206_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs113.snc4/35996_1428816693875_1636560054_1056337_246050_n.jpg
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