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Author Topic: CATAJETS: Design and Development  (Read 65165 times)
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FAAMAN
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« Reply #100 on: September 17, 2010, 10:02:20 PM »

In case your wondering, the straight winged beastie is a (Chance?) Vought F6U Pirate USN nightfighter, the swept wing one bird is a Republic XF-91 Thunderceptor USAF prototype fighter.

Cheers,
Neil
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« Reply #101 on: September 17, 2010, 11:04:17 PM »

Sneaky Tom Grin. Your Phantom looks great to me, how much did you enlarge the tail feathers over the original? Betcha she goes real good "under power' from the cat. Cool colour scheme as most FH-1's were relatively plain in their finish.

This catajet 'thang' is getting out of control guys, even my kids are making suggestions as to what'll do well. They seem to like the weird ones Cool, here's two from them.

Neil... and Pit...

I guess I fit into the weird category... I've already downloaded the Pirate 3-view and planned to get it in the air soon. These catajets can be be cut out and in mockup form in just a couple of hours. I must admit I looked at the XF-91 but the wing design just makes me wonder about strength and flying ability...thin at the root and thick at the tips Huh what do you guys/girls think.

The tail feathers on the Phantom are enlarged approximately 20% using the TLAR engineering method (That Looks About Right)

I'm also working on a delta F-102 and a swept wing thunderjet F-84F.

Tom
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« Reply #102 on: September 18, 2010, 03:05:17 AM »

This is getting nuts fellow flyers. My secret flight test facility in Western Sydney has ........ well ........ several, ah, ideas happening at present, nuf said Grin So you grabbed the Pirate Tom eh? Sounds to me like a fan of the early USN jets is growing in their .............. obsession? Wink Wink Wink Wink XF-91 would be fun, you could get plenty of washout in that "fat" wingtip.

By the way, went catajet flying this arvo, 5+ knots of wind, not good, we destroyed my son's Ta152H and badly damaged the F-15A. The Ta has been voluntarily retired by my son to be replaced by a new build one, the Eagle will be repaired and retrimmed to cure it's inability to recover from a stall in anything less than 40' !!!! Wind could also be a factor in this too.

My Reichenberg's first "powered" flights resulted in a violent loop with various versions of semi stall, and two instances of "hovering"!!! Cool She really doesn't like wind at all and I'm thinking she needs some more nose weight to control the looping tendency. If this doesn't help she may need the horizontal stab increased in area.

Cheers all,
Neil
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« Reply #103 on: September 18, 2010, 05:04:47 AM »

Niel, a small increase in stab area won't hurt, but it sounds more like too much incidence. Try "breathing" in some down elevator - if that works, sand in a bit of an airfoil on the TOP surface of the stab (just a LITTLE bit at a time).

How are the hand glides? Most of my catajets (read: ALL) needed a pinch of extra nose ballast to work well off the sling, even though the backyard test tosses looked perfect (the long, floating glide into the far fence/street/neighbor's yard - needs more in the schnoz Grin).
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« Reply #104 on: September 18, 2010, 07:05:01 AM »

Pit I think you just may be right, the backyard glides are longish (depending on wind strength) and relatively slow, so I'll be sorting elevator/stab first then adding approx 1g to the nose.

Most of the weight of my son's Ta152H (9.3g) was nose weight and it flew not badly at all today (or any other days either), even exhibiting some "penetration" into the wind (climbing, bobbing and dipping alternate wings) before turning and running with the wind (accelerating) and flying into the ground. It was one of these landings that killed it.

Soooo ......... seems you're on the right track mate, thanks for the confirmation of what I was thinking Smiley Cool

Neil
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« Reply #105 on: September 19, 2010, 03:14:57 AM »

Greetings All,

I used BG's plan for the Mig 15 catajet and got the parts all mocked up tonight. Thought I post a few pics...I used the scrap balsa I had available so the fuselage is made from stiff 1/8 balsa which I then sanded from the rear of the cockpit to the tailpipe tapering it down to approximately 1/16 inch at the rear. I then cut out the two wing panels from 3/32 inch balsa and sanded in the usual airfoil with the apex at approximately 25% of the chord from the leading edge. Tapering the wing panels from the root 3/32 to tip approx. 1/32 inch with the airfoil. I used the TLAR engineering on this wing. Tail surfaces are 1/32 inch stiff balsa. Wingspan is 11 1/4 inch so she is one of the bigger catajets I've made. Still deciding on the scheme. Here's some pics of the mockup.

I didn't review the posts that BG made with the plan he posted so I added 15mm dihedral on the main wing. Haven't tried gliding yet but looks to need some ballast on the nose first.

Calm breezes,
Tom
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« Reply #106 on: September 19, 2010, 07:20:47 AM »

Very nice Tom, looking forward to the finished product.

Neil
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« Reply #107 on: September 19, 2010, 10:29:07 PM »

Neil,

Thanks for the comments... still deciding on the scheme for the Mig 15... leaning towards a Chinese camo version I've found.

Here's the finish on the FH-1 Phantom... My oldest Grandson "Ethan" has already claimed it as his own... can't wait to get it out to the park to test the catapult, so far glides really nice.

Tom
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« Reply #108 on: September 19, 2010, 10:35:36 PM »

Hey Tom, Will you adopt me. I don't need much, just some balsa catajets. Grin Sure like all those catajets you're doing.

Caley
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« Reply #109 on: September 20, 2010, 12:43:36 AM »

Caley,

Consider yourself a part of the family... but you'll have to wrestle with the fetchermites for the Catajets Grin Grin Wink maybe I can make you a special one.... what do you want? Cool

Tom
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« Reply #110 on: September 20, 2010, 08:23:15 AM »

Tom, LOL!!!!! Grin Nothing other than pics of the fetchermites having so much enjoyment. Their smiles are great.

Caley
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« Reply #111 on: September 20, 2010, 10:05:40 AM »

Tom, brilliant looking FH-1, very cool Cool. Love the colour scheme. The smiles on yer "fetchermites' are very familiar, my three get the same one's on their dials!!! Grin

I'm unfortunately waaaay behind with my own catajets Embarrassed, managed to break the wings for my HP.115 yesterday Shocked Angry, started to build a new set differently to the first as I was having lots of trouble with warping with the original build style.

Caley, how about a purple or pink Reichenberg for you?? My daughters designed their own colour schemes, ......... don't know about kittens and Tinkerbell markings though??? Roll Eyes

Have fun all!!!! Keep up the great work Tom Grin

Neil
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« Reply #112 on: September 20, 2010, 11:38:07 AM »

Neil, Sorry to hear about the HP115. You'll get it streaking through the sky again shortly. Glad your girls are having fun with the models. I'm kind of partial to wild colours, though a purple or pink Reichenburg? How about lavender.  Grin Gotta have cartoon characters on your kids models. I did that with stickers on a purple Baxter Big Pussycat, and the girl who got it just loved it. Not sure if you have 99 cents stores or equivalent down under, but that's where I get the foil stickers. They come in cartoons, stars, smilies and all other kinds of things, and weigh almost nothing, though I guess they could have a little bit of effect on the flight of a catajet.

Look forward to more creations from the catapeople. Smiley

Caley with too much on her plate to build one. Sad
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« Reply #113 on: September 20, 2010, 12:33:44 PM »

Caley and Neil,

Thanks for the comments.... Love the smiles on the kids faces. Make building even more fun. My oldest wants to build something right now... Maybe we'll get something going so he can personally build it with white glue. Can't trust him with the Cya... I can just see fingers and hands and no telling what stuck together... HA HA. Grin Grin Wink Roll Eyes Shocked

Caley... good Idea about the 99cent store. We get them stickers and toys there all the time. I'll check out something for the catajets.

These catajets go together so fast its hard to get back to the other stuff I've got on the table. :'( Grin

Got to get busy with them though to finish up some cookups.

Regards,
Tom
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« Reply #114 on: September 20, 2010, 12:38:00 PM »

Tom, I use Titebond on all my Catapult flyers. It seems to work just fine. The key is getting the glue joints flush. I think he might start with an HLG for practice. Even a poorly done one can fly a little. I built an HLG called a Dogchew, and am averaging about 8 seconds, which is probably just fine for a starter. And your youngster can probably throw harder than I can. Smiley

Caley
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« Reply #115 on: September 20, 2010, 07:49:45 PM »

Can anybody show a picture of the FAC approved launching stick?
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« Reply #116 on: September 20, 2010, 08:04:50 PM »

FlyAce, I'm not familiar with FAC, but generally the stick is 6x1/2 inch with about a 6 inch loop of 1/4 inch rubber for larger CLG's. My stick from Sting Aero has a loop of rubber 7 inches long. You would use 1/8 rubber for smaller models. I didn't know FAC did gliders. Interesting.

Caley
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« Reply #117 on: September 21, 2010, 01:55:52 AM »

Hey Tom, Will you adopt me. I don't need much, just some balsa catajets. Grin Sure like all those catajets you're doing.

Thanks All... I'll give the thinned white glue a try and see what Ethan (number 1 fetchermite) can do. Caley is the Dogchew a kit or a plan you used? Caley I put all the catajets together in one album on the Yahoo site here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ffcookup/photos/album/1930304792/pic/list?mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
I've become a Catajet Addict... Shocked Shocked Roll Eyes Grin I believe it was Pete that said, "Fly the rubber powered planes first, before the CLG's or you never get them in the air". Tooo True Grin I just have too much fun with the fetchermites at the park with the CLG's.

Neil... was reviewing the thread after you mention of the F-15 and was wondering if the kit for the F15 is a current kit available online? Nice looking bird. Sorry to hear about the TA 152. Was it a CLG?

Hope to finish the Mig 15 tomorrow. Decided on a camo Chinese light green and Dark green over light blue. Hope it turns out ok. After rereading the posts on page 2 re: the Mig 15 I'm adding the wing fences initially.

Regards,
Tom
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« Reply #118 on: September 21, 2010, 07:49:17 AM »

Don't say I didn't warn y'all Wink! Tom, I believe the F-15 can be gotten from PENN VALLEY (it's a West Wings kit). I have the F-18 (no longer in the lineup) that flys great as a chuckie, but is a disaster on the sling - I have NOT been able to get it tamed to work consistently. It's a pretty model tho.
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« Reply #119 on: September 21, 2010, 08:43:08 AM »

Tom, I found the Dogchew plan on the internet. http://chuckglider.blogspot.com/2010/07/free-model-glider-plan-dogchew-6-tiny.html  I would imagine that you can size it up from six inches to a size that you'd like. I did mine at 6 inches so I could enter the Worldwide Tiny Gliders Postal. Maybe your youngster would like the throw one and you could enter him for fun. http://tinygliders.blogspot.com/

I went to the site you gave, but I need to be a member to view things. I kind of got away from those Yahoo Groups when one person kept bugging me about this or that.

Caley
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« Reply #120 on: September 21, 2010, 04:31:04 PM »

Pete...thanks for the info on the F-15 I'll check it out...you were sooooo right about these CLG's...I have a bunch of 3 views waiting in the wings for a redesign for Catajet plans. Not enough time. :'( Grin Wink I want to do the Canadian version of the CF101B...Vodoo should be a nice looking bird. Caught the real thing up in Sacramento at McClellan AFB when they would come through doing ECM training. Sometime they would be the bad guys and at other's they would be the interceptors while the U.S.A.F. guys were playing the bad guys.

Caley... sorry about the yahoo site and the bother you found there...thanks for the Dogchew info...have already downloaded the plan will enlarge to 8 inches and make up two kits for the fetchermites to build with the thinned Elmers titebond. Should be great fun. Also bought some "DayGlo" orange rattle can paint to highlight the tips of the wings like I noticed on Pete's and the other gliders. They (fetchermites) can add what they want to decorate...stickers etc.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Tom
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« Reply #121 on: September 21, 2010, 05:32:32 PM »

Tom and Pete, You don't know how hard it has been to resist building catajets along with you. I just don't want to move into my car when I want to go to sleep or eat. My place is getting a bit crowded. Grin

Tom, Glad you got the plan. Sure hope the kids can build them, with your help on the decalage and dihedral parts. Those probably will be the most difficult for them to do. Look forward to seeing each with a decorated Dogchew in their hands.

Caley
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« Reply #122 on: September 21, 2010, 09:15:29 PM »

Tom, the F-15 is a chuck glider by Artmill, made here in Australia. I don't know what nor where Penn Valley is, and it's not the West Wings kit as the Artmill kit is only printed on one side (!!) although there is some passing simularities. You get to draw your other-side/underside. My son's F-15A has a canopy I vac-formed with a pilot and ejector seat i made, a pair of wing pylons with AIM-9 Sidewinder rails with AIM-9's made from wood. I couldn't sort a way to make sufficiently strong enough nor mount AIM-7 Sparrows to the fuse stations without having to replace them (or the fins) over and over ad nauseum ........... The model was a bit heavy even before paint etc and really needs some trimming. I trimmed it for long glides before adding details and paint. When finished flying characteristics were checked and she did good! Smiley

The Artmill Australia web site is under construction at present. They make several balsa kits types, free-sail sailing boats, stick & sheet rubber powered aircraft (my eldest boy flew one of these for years) and 6 chuck gliders, F-5E, F-4E, F-15E(?), F104, F-18A and Harrier. I've the F-5E to build for the boy now and thankfully he wants a USN Agressor (GO NAVY!!) scheme on it plus wing-tip AIM-9's and a centerline tank.

The Ta152H was a paper D/L HLG (chuck) I found along with a small Cub and a Canuck. I sanded some 0.8mm balsa sheet down to approx 0.5mm thick and got the kids to cut out the pics and glue them down (I had to create in Photoshop the undersides of the wings/tail), and surprise, they all flew!! Grin Grin The now retired Ta is repaired and will become a ceiling guardian in the boy's room after replacement with another Ta. He thinks they look "evil" Cool

Cheers all,
Neil
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« Reply #123 on: September 21, 2010, 09:48:55 PM »

Just an idea all, and so we don't get too sidetracked off topic, does anyone support the idea of another thread to be started for........... CataPiston models or CataProp? Embarrassed Guess we gotta be careful of how we say CataPiston! Grin. As there are SOOO many other subjects out there to fly as catapult launched gliders that are piston/propeller powered. I think the natural demarcation line with aircraft is actually propeller driven vs jet driven. So CataPiston would have anything with a piston powerplant OR CataProp would include everything with a propeller be it piston or turboprop.

I thought this idea was worth a float on the forum and I hope I'm not causing problems with already posted turboprop Catajets, but as I said previously, I don't want to go off topic when I produce a "piston powered" catapult model. For instance, I've got 9, yes 9, MkXII Spitfire catapult models in the works for the family and they wouldn't be appropriate to show on Catajets. The Spit pic is of a "Root-Canal" version of the same MkXII Spits on my workbench.

PM or Email me if you like so we don't clutter this thread with babble on this question

Regards all,
Neil.
Cheers all
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« Reply #124 on: September 22, 2010, 07:51:25 PM »

Neil,

Loved the pics of your collection...I started a collection thread because I didn't want to hijack this thread. Love the Spit...

Here's the Mig 15 finished up...not sure how to determine the CG on sweptwing birds... thought this would need a bunch of ballast on the nose....but tossed it in the living room at the back of the couch across the room...to my surprise is glided straight across the room with a shallow glide right into the back of the couch. I immediately took it to the front yard and gave her a toss and she flew across the yard into the neighbors front yard nice and flat with just a hint of right turn, which was into the gentle breeze blowing across the yards. Approximately 35 feet Shocked Shocked Grin Can't wait to get her on the cat. Here's the pics

Tom
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