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Author Topic: CATAJETS: Design and Development  (Read 64991 times)
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BG
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« Reply #50 on: July 29, 2010, 12:50:56 PM »

Hi All, Just back from 3 weeks in the high Arctic.

So Willi..... I think you need washout sir. I ended up with a significant amount of washout on both tips and mine flew fine without the fences (too lazy to put them on).

B
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« Reply #51 on: July 31, 2010, 06:01:02 PM »

Got out late this evening for another test of the F-89. I was able to glue everything back together, this time with a bit more dihedral and NO warp in the left panel Embarrassed. A couple of hand tosses into the tall weeds next to the main field made me remove some of the weight I had added to the left panel for turn. Another toss had me removing ALL of the weight Smiley.

A light pull on my rattiest sling went nearly straight up - very slight tendency to"climb" but reduced to a 1/2 spiral thanks to the "airfoiled" fin. She transitioned slightly nose down but recovered at about 30 feet (lost maybe ten) and made two nice 70 foot circuits to a greased landing. Two more identical flights and I called it an evening. I'll try to get some in-flight pics tomorrow

I'll update the plan and get it posted within the next day or two. I DON'T recommend this model for starters - it HAS to be built accurately (or leave off the tip pods Tongue).
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« Reply #52 on: August 08, 2010, 01:03:15 PM »

Made another 2 3/4 flights with the F-89. I didn't change anything from the last outing. If anything was different, it was for the better with the first two flights over 20 seconds (22 and 26). The next 3/4 WOULD have been great had it not been for the boundary fence in the pit area.

The stab got literally blown off and a nice dent along the top of the port wing was the final tally Angry. Time WOULD have been over 30 seconds (WHAM at 29).
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« Reply #53 on: August 15, 2010, 12:03:55 PM »

Pete,

Too bad about the "WHAM"...glad to hear you got her sorted out. Sounds like you had some great flights.

Look forward to the repairs and inflight shots.

Got inspired by the Lear Fan and made one up on Friday...What do you know about v-tails.  She would glide strait and level without any ballast ( I think because of the long nose moment) but as soon as the speed dropped off she would stall and snap into a spin. I haven't tried adding nose ballast yet just took her out into the front yard for trimming.

I will post pics as soon as my computer gets repaired....snafu with the modem Huh Roll Eyes Shocked :'(

Tom
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« Reply #54 on: August 16, 2010, 01:58:14 AM »

Hi All,

Got the computer working again... Not so much the computer but the guy hitting the keys Roll Eyes Shocked Cheesy

Here's a few pics of the Lear Fan 2100 catajet(fanjet) made from the only 3 view I could find on the net. The fuselage is almost the same length of the wingspan just a little longer. I took great pains to taper the wing from root to tip then sanded the airfoil with the apex of the foil at 30% of the chord. Roughly balanced at the 30% chord. The plane is short coupled but I couldn't resist the shape. Soooo sleek. Just looks very hot and fast.

As I shared with Pete... I get a stable glide as long as she has speed but as soon as she slows down the nose drops and she snaps into a tail spin and does the impression of a lawn dart. Didn't have time to experiment with adjusting ballast and incidence yet will share these as soon as time permits. Would appreciate any suggestions in regards to the V-tail set up and adjustments.

Regards,
Tom
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« Reply #55 on: August 16, 2010, 07:35:29 AM »

I'm seeing a need for dihedral.
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« Reply #56 on: August 16, 2010, 12:10:49 PM »

I'm seeing a need for dihedral.

I agree. At least double what you have there. It might look a bit funky when compared side by side to a three-view, but it will make a world of difference. The Scorpion really tamed down with 50% more dihedral (looks 'orrible, tho).

Getting V-tails dialed in can be traumatizing, as ONE surface adjustment affects two directions. The only change that won't mess up two is incidence, UNLESS the unit is biased to one side..

A neat, good looking project.
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« Reply #57 on: August 16, 2010, 08:12:52 PM »

This is my son's F-15 catajet glider. It's a slightly modified kit from an Aussie company called Artmill who produce a line of "chuck glider" kits. It's 370mm long (now Embarrassed Wink) x 300mm w/span with almost 50mm dihedral Shocked Shocked. The kit wood is heavier than I'd like with printed detail on one side only. I have an F-5 to build with him also from Artmill.

As you can see, I've detailed both sides and the top and underside, plunged a canopy and dug up a side view of an F-15 driver for the cockpit, made pylons and missles, painted it and added decals from the ink jet. I know it's heavy but my boy loves it as it looks "real". The cat-hook is a straightened paper clip.

The catapult used for this model is made from 250mm of looped clothing elastic with a small split ring for hooking up to the glider. This gets it up to about 30-50' approx (depending on the wind) launched at around 45deg where it will either loop or just drop it's nose both into the trimmed r/hand glide that lasts for about 10-15secs. We have an unofficial glide of longer in still air that wasn't timed.

The F-15 has lots of landing rash, damage and MANY repairs, and it still flies. Shocked

Keep flying all
Neil
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« Reply #58 on: August 16, 2010, 08:25:47 PM »

Thanks for the input... Pete and Danberry... I'll give the wing more dihedral...I was thinking about this in prep for a stick and tissue rubber powered model. I really like the lines of this bird. FAAMAN ...love the F15. Glad to see the landing rash....just means she's been in the air. My grand kids love the catajets and they like them all painted up as well...me too.

Tom
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« Reply #59 on: August 17, 2010, 12:59:19 PM »

Pete & Danberry

Thanks for the suggestion of adding dihedral. I added 10mm more and she doesn't look too bad and she doesn't snap into a spin at the end of the toss. I think this may have accomplished the needed adjustment. Thanks. Now to add some paint...just can't seem to leave them just balsa. Will add pics and flight info later.

Tom
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« Reply #60 on: August 20, 2010, 07:54:18 PM »

Hi All,

Here's some pictures of the LearFan 2100 catajet. The suggested dihedral wound up being a total of 25mm and seems to have stablized the LearFan. I have not used the catapult yet, but have achieved a nice glide after adding some ballast on the nose and tweaking the left wingtip. I'm consistently getting a 25 to 30 foot glide with a pretty hefty toss. Got to have some speed to get her flying. Here's some pics...going to the park tomorrow...we'll see what happens. Grin

Regards,
Tom
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« Reply #61 on: August 20, 2010, 10:35:21 PM »

Cool Learfan Tom!! Hope it flys as well as it looks, cause it looks great!! Grin Have fun.

Neil
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« Reply #62 on: August 23, 2010, 09:59:03 AM »

Here's a project I started on Saturday, it will be a catajet version of the Handley Page HP.115 from the Jetex website.

Printed out on A4 and taken to my local copy-place I got it enlarged 150%. Looked a good size at this enlargement for an unusual model to fly.

So the plans were transferred to balsa and then cut out. The fuse balsa is med-hard 2.5mm, the wing 1.5mm and the vertical stab 1.0mm.

The wing was assembled first, but I wasn't happy with how the end grain was exposed and probably easily damaged during "normal" flying so I modified the assembly by cutting 3mm from each L/edge and substituted 2.4mm thick med balsa 3mm wide as the new L/edge slightly rounding off the underside before gluing to the rest of the wing so that a slightly drooped L/edge can be sanded in when dry. I'm hoping that this will help the wing's aerodynamics work a bit better (ala F-102, F-106, Mirage) than the flat triangle on the plan. I'm trying to stick as much as possible to the plan without altering it too much so this is why I haven't added a "curved" slot in the fuselage for the wing and hence the leading edge alteration.

Cheers all
Neil
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« Reply #63 on: August 23, 2010, 11:52:09 PM »

Hi All,

FAAMAN....your delta looks great. I shall follow your progress with interest... I want to do the Convair Deltas F102 and F106 in the future.

Re: the Lear Fan it was an interesting day at the park... she is very sensitive to the smallest changes in trim. I made the above dihedral change and the dihedral is 25mm under one wing tip while the other panel lies flat on the building board. I like the painted finish but it did cause a slight warp in the left wing panel. This wasn't noticed until the second catapult launch. I must admit that this is one fast bird off the cat. On the first launch I stretched the rubber approximately 1/2 the tension of the rubber. I lost sight of the Lear right off the cat. She is soooooo fast that I had no idea where she went. After a five minute circuit around the field I finally found her about fifty feet in front and to the right of my launch stance. On the second launch at about a quarter of the tension at approximately 30 degree angle she did a sharp right rolling arc and did a lawn dart in the grass 40 feet in front of me. Upon closer examination I noticed the warp in the left panel. With a few tweaks of the wing panel twisting in the opposite direction the majority of the warp was removed. On the third launch with 1/2 tension she performed a nice big loop with a slight right bank and steep nose low glide. I removed some ballast from the nose and put a small pinch on the left wing tip top. Fourth launch at approximately a 45 degree angle at the same tension and she climbed out to about 40 feet and rolled out into a right banking turn and glide. I tweaked the left panel again and removed some more ballast from the nose of the Lear. One more cat and I was reward with a nice high launch and 15 second flight. So I decided I would add more stretch on the catapult. More as full cat launch! Shocked Roll Eyes What I got was a tight right rolling climb to approximately 50 or so feet. When she rolled out of the launch she was inverted and completed the down leg of the loop and then started a right glide across the field.... amazing how far this little bird got in 18 seconds. After a nice 100 yard stroll across the park between the trees I recovered the Lear. I'm thinking she needs to be about twelve inch wing span or so. Much easier to see on launch and hopefully not so sensitive to trim changes. I will continue to work with this model but will build a larger version as well. I will tweak the plans to show the changes I've made and post them in the plans sections with a few notes to the changes to achieve some satisfactory flights. This is no contest model and I am sure the paint keeps the times down. But I just like to see them painted. Going to see about some artist felt tip markers to get some schemes lighter on a model. Sorry for this being so long. Any insight others might have re: the flights and corrections I'd like to hear.

Regards,
Tom
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« Reply #64 on: August 24, 2010, 08:58:09 AM »

Nice 115 Neil! Hope you can get it to catapult well - deltas and scale-type canards are NOT easy!

Way to go, Tom! Your point about a larger model is true - they are easier to see and trim for flight. Felt markers for coloring are a LOT lighter than paint, but have a number of disadvantages.

They don't like "sticking" to anywhere glue is, rub off without a sealing coat of clear and most sealing coats will make the color run. Airbrushing a sealant is about the only way to go. Rattle cans WILL work, but u have to "wave" the model thru the spray.

The best markers I have found are those used for overhead projectors or CD/DVD's (permanent) - they even cover glued areas but still show and I haven't seen any in day-glo colors.
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« Reply #65 on: August 25, 2010, 12:01:16 AM »

Pete,

Thanks for the input on the markers...I'll check out the arts and crafts store locally here to see what I can find. Thanks for the sealing info as well.

I got motivated to build a 50's jet instead of the EA6B...so here's the mockup of the McDonnell F2H Banchee. It has polyhedral on the wings of 15mm under each wing tip and the horizontal stab also has a dihedral of 25mm under one stab tip while the other panel is flat on the building board.

Here are a few pics of the mockup prototype.

Tom
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« Reply #66 on: August 25, 2010, 10:30:53 AM »

Nice Banshee Tom, now all we need is an FH-1 Phantom !!!

Clear skies mate!

Neil
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« Reply #67 on: August 26, 2010, 07:37:44 PM »

Greetings All,

Have posted the plans for the LearFan... I do recommend enlarging the plans to a 10 or 12 inch wingspan. This little propjet is very fast. I've had loads of fun and she gets away very quickly. Longest cat launch is only 18 seconds but I had a long walk to retrieve her. Got to work on trimming a turn in the glide.

FAAMAN....the Banshee is one of my best hand launched glides yet. Have yet to catapult her. The FH1 Phantom is already in the plans stage. She should be as good as the Banshee. Will keep you posted. The banshee flew right off the board. She glided across the front lawn and into the middle of the street Shocked Roll Eyes. Shall try catapult launch tomorrow.

Tom
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« Reply #68 on: August 26, 2010, 08:44:02 PM »

Tom, between you and Pete, and probably a few others, there won't be a jet or anything resembling one, that you won't have made into a Catajet. You Guys are prolific. Smiley

Caley
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« Reply #69 on: August 27, 2010, 10:53:13 AM »

I am in possession of the AF MANUAL 355-10 which is titled aircraft recognition for the ground observer DEPARTMENT OF THE AIR FORCE, Dated April 1955.

My uncle Gave it to me when President Eisenhower terminated the Ground Observer Corps. He knew I was a certified Plane Nut so he wanted me to have this manual.

The planes of Canada and the United States are featured with a few others tossed in(like USSR AND GREAT BRITAIN)

One section features all jets which got me to thinking: Most feature pictures ,three views and Salient features. The IL-28 USSR Twin-Jet Bomber is only an artist's conception.

Why am I sending this one out? If you need something ask and if I have it in the book I will scan it and send it in.

The book is put together in a very easy to take apart fashion. Unscrew the 2 short bolts going thru to blind nuts .

Some pages are missing (C-99) another has torn corners (B-52).

It may be possible you need other aircraft from the book besides so it never hurts to ask. Remember the time frame of this manual covered all kinds of military aircraft and civil a/c as well as helicopters.
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« Reply #70 on: August 27, 2010, 11:19:28 AM »

FlyAce, That's really kewl. My father, a Marine, gave me something similar when I was a single digit midget. It was a deck of cards that pretty much did the same. They were playing card sized cards apparently put out by the Marine Corps. But I don't have those anymore. Sad

Caley
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« Reply #71 on: August 27, 2010, 05:05:53 PM »

The Manual I was referring to measures 10 x 6.5 inches and about 1/2 inch thick. Roll Eyes Shocked Grin
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« Reply #72 on: August 27, 2010, 05:14:20 PM »

Sounds like a typical Air Force manual. Big enough to be used to bomb with, if you use up all the rest of the bombs.  Cheesy
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« Reply #73 on: August 27, 2010, 05:18:38 PM »

MOST AF manuals would have been better if they included more pictures. I guess all the good photo's were already snapped up by other people.
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« Reply #74 on: August 27, 2010, 05:37:23 PM »

I spent 24 years in the AF. I'm just glad I don't have to worry about such things now. But now, on with the catajets. Wonder what's next off the board?

Caley
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