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Author Topic: Good RTF P-30's?  (Read 1000 times)
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Fido
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« on: July 07, 2010, 11:47:13 AM »

Hello, I wonder if there's any reasonably good Ready To Fly P-30's around? Links or addresses are more then welcome! Smiley

/Fido
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DerekMc
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« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2010, 12:29:38 PM »

Fido, You want to talk with Larry at Starlink at http://www.starlink-flitetech.com

The website is not up to date so make sure you email or call him.
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« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2010, 01:18:00 PM »

Agreed, Larry Bagalini (starlink) has quite a few ready to fly P-30s that are very nice. And like Derek said, it is best to call him.

Also, FAI supplies carries a RTF P-30 by Ikara I believe. John Clapp (FAI supplies) should know.

http://www.faimodelsupply.com/

Tony
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applehoney
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« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2010, 07:20:27 PM »

RTF P.30's..... sigh .....
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Sundance12
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« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2010, 07:51:27 PM »

I can't believe the prices. How come I can't sell the models I make for $1000?

more Sigh....
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DerekMc
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« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2010, 11:05:58 PM »

RTF P.30's..... sigh .....

Yeah, isn't it great that we can pursue this wonderful pastime any way we want to. Grin Options, you gotta love them!
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Derek
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« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2010, 11:45:06 PM »

RTF P.30's..... sigh .....
Yeah, isn't it great that we can pursue this wonderful pastime any way we want to. Grin Options, you gotta love them!

NO!
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Fido
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« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2010, 02:53:05 AM »

Thanks all!

And I do understand your skepticism about rtf ships, believe me. It's just that my 8 year old step son watched some P-30's at a FF event this weekend, and he really wanted one of those! Tongue So, I'm currently out of space (looking for a house) and are not able to make one myself. So I guess that RTF could be the way in this case, just to see if I can catch him to the magic art of FF!

/Fido
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« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2010, 03:14:09 AM »

Fido

I suggest that the best option for you would be to go for the RTF Ikara PeeWee and buy it locally, as it is European made and you wouldn't be paying for shipment to the US and back to Europe again! The last time I saw these advertised, the price was circa £45-50.

I know that you say you don't have the space, but a possible alternative would be the Spencer Willis Sweet P 30 (see the Free Flight Supplies website) as it has a ready built motor tube and all the other parts are laser cut. I'm sure you could make it on your lap on a 0.5 x.25m building board Wink

Sorry that you and your flying chums couldn't make it to the British FF Nats this year - we miss you.

Peter
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« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2010, 09:16:18 AM »

Here's a link to the Ikara website - ready to fly 69 Euro

http://www.ikara.eu/index.php?nid=6259&lid=EN&oid=941333
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Fido
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« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2010, 11:44:24 AM »

Hi PeeTee! Smiley

Thanks a bunch, I recognize that ship from a guy in my club. I'll try to find it here in Sweden first, found that someone import them on the website you added.

Yes, I/we miss you guys too! Sorry we missed Brit Nats this year, I heard that some glorious Brittish weather was present! Wink I was in contact with Mick Page earlier this year and he predicted bad weather several months before. So I think I'll contact the weathergod (Mick) again to see what he say about next year! Grin

Cheers!
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DerekMc
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« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2010, 12:17:54 PM »

RTF P.30's..... sigh .....
Yeah, isn't it great that we can pursue this wonderful pastime any way we want to. Grin Options, you gotta love them!
NO!

Let me guess Tom, you wouldn't happen to be a free market capitalist would you Grin

Sorry fido, I was not paying attention to where you live when I made my suggestion. It looks like there are several options for you where the expense would be a lot less.
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Derek
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« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2010, 12:28:13 PM »

Let me guess Tom, you wouldn't happen to be a free market capitalist would you Grin

Well here's one free market capitalist who couldn't care less about RTF P-30's. While I really have some concerns about BOM elsewhere, P-30 is one of those places where it doesn't make a hill of beans difference. I've yet to see any system that gives a real competitive edge. The best P-30 setup I've seen is 4 strands of 1/8, and that does not lend itself to much in the line of gadgetry. Probably the only thing that would make a noticeable difference would be the production of Thurman Bowl's autosurface P-30, and even then I have to question what advantage it would have.

The place that things are getting interesting is AMA Gas, where it's starting to look like the presence of BOM may actually be holding things back--the top fliers are machining some really, really complex stuff. As much as I prefer BOM, one wonders if its removal might actually level the playing field a little.
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« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2010, 12:49:52 PM »

Mike Evatt (UK) did an article (FFQ I believe?) on P-30 design and there are two ways to higher performance. The first is to use a tandem wing design with no auto-surfaces (and possibly a long motor run). Tricky to build to weight, but shows a performance benefit over existing designs. The second method is to go to a geared front end using a very short motor with a long carbon tailboom and auto-surfaces. The model ends up looking like a mini F1B or F1G. No advantage over the tandem, but a different sort of power pattern (straight-up at the start) and better to handle the wind and thermal turbulence than the tandem.

The latter (geared full auto) would be a good candidate for the Ukranian carbon Elfs if BOM rule was dropped.

I've always wondered if leveling the playing field is a useful goal. For so called beginners events (if such a thing exists?) perhaps. But for open events? What's the incentive to spend time developing a new design if the field is leveled?

On the other side of the coin, what's the point of an event where only a few participate because it's gotten too complex or expensive to compete?

Tough questions..

Tony
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« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2010, 01:11:04 PM »

P30 has a level playing field. It is called a propellor. That is the leveler.

When you realize the performance difference between a Coupe and a P30----double the weight and twice the performance---the prop as a limiter becomes clear. No BOM isn't gonna affect or effect any real change at the field. Our colonizing friends across the pond have empirical data as proof.

And, I'll sell any plane I have for $1000.
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« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2010, 06:52:46 PM »

Let me guess Tom, you wouldn't happen to be a free market capitalist would you Grin

Derek,
Myself, could careless whether we build them or buy them. What does matter to me is, if the BOM is dropped for P-30; it will end up just as Coupe did. Which is, allow AMA to drop another rubber event and turn it over to FAI. Now, if you wish to fly P-30 FAI style (in rounds, flying Ukrainian made models) that's your choice; as it should be. And, yes you will be flying Ukranian made models/or assembled from Ukrainian parts. No American company or individual(in their right mind) is going to spend the time and money to make mass quantities of RTF-P30's. There's NO money to be made doing so. Oh sure, we'll sell them here through distributors. Ever wonder why the Ukranians who do the manufacturing stay in the Ukraine?

Otf'er...

Ratz edit: Fixed quoting
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« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2010, 07:54:31 PM »

What does matter to me is, if the BOM is dropped for P-30; it will end up just as Coupe did. Which is, allow AMA to drop another rubber event and turn it over to FAI. Now, if you wish to fly P-30 FAI style (in rounds, flying Ukrainian made models) that's your choice; as it should be.

I seriously doubt that will happen. There have been several proposals by noted FAI flyers to usurp P-30 into FAI scoring and flying, and they have been resisted vehemently, as they should be. It is utterly ridiculous to change the scoring/flying system for P-30, and it would destroy the event to enact such changes. You can bet I'll raise a stink just like everyone else if such a thing actually makes it to the board.

If I'm not mistaken, Schlosberg's proposal did make it to the board, but was withdrawn in the face of adversity. He tried to convince me to help back his proposals; I informed him that I could not in any way justify changing the flying format or the minimum weight because both changes are detrimental to the event. I cannot understand why it is that people are so obsessed with claiming that 40 g is too light. My first P-30 was 45, and I definitely was NOT trying to build light. It was an ugly thing, too... Embarrassed
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« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2010, 05:06:05 PM »

What does matter to me is, if the BOM is dropped for P-30; it will end up just as Coupe did. Which is, allow AMA to drop another rubber event and turn it over to FAI. Now, if you wish to fly P-30 FAI style (in rounds, flying Ukrainian made models) that's your choice; as it should be.
I seriously doubt that will happen. There have been several proposals by noted FAI flyers to usurp P-30 into FAI scoring and flying, and they have been resisted vehemently, as they should be. It is utterly ridiculous to change the scoring/flying system for P-30, and it would destroy the event to enact such changes. You can bet I'll raise a stink just like everyone else if such a thing actually makes it to the board.

If I'm not mistaken, Schlosberg's proposal did make it to the board, but was withdrawn in the face of adversity. He tried to convince me to help back his proposals; I informed him that I could not in any way justify changing the flying format or the minimum weight because both changes are detrimental to the event. I cannot understand why it is that people are so obsessed with claiming that 40 g is too light

Josh,

You've forgotten history has already proven your thinking wrong twice. 1st it was Wakefield, 2nd it was Coupe. You see your thoughts are flawed at the B.O.M rule. Once that is dropped, now there becomes a very viable monetary reason for the Ukrainian built P-30 models to flood the market. Hell, sales of RTF-P30's will probably become greater than all their Wakes and Coupes combined. There will be nothing in the way prevent it. All the pissing and moaning we do, isn't going to do squat! As I stated earlier, NO USA manufacturing is going to happen; unless it's in your own garage. Once this ball starts rolling, AMA will dump P-30 like a "HOT POTATO." This what AMA does, using their past record as proof. Hello FAI.

Otf'er...
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