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Author Topic: Went flying.  (Read 214526 times)
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OZPAF
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« Reply #1400 on: September 01, 2020, 09:07:42 PM »

Stephen - the Spitfire repaid all your efforts with that beautiful flight - very charismatic.

It was certainly worthwhile correcting and repairing the Zweibox Dave.

John
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dosco
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« Reply #1401 on: September 01, 2020, 09:33:36 PM »

John:
It certainly seems like the Zweibox wants to fly. Hopefully she'll do well on the next outing.

Thank you for your help!

-Dave
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Prosper
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« Reply #1402 on: September 02, 2020, 04:51:32 AM »

Hi fellers, a few comments: first, I sold my soul to the devil way back in the '70s/'80s when recommended by Whitesnake. . .or was it Iron Maiden. . .Deep Purple?. . .and it wasn't in exchange for modelling skills. . .so that doesn't account for the Spitfire flight. Ricky, the prop drag thing hadn't occurred to me. If the windmilling prop causes a model to yaw right if rightthrust is present, then surely it should exert a force in pitch too? Depending on thrustline relative to the CG? Very interesting. That stall was divergent I think (getting bigger with every cycle), so would have to be trimmed out to avoid trouble. In fact it was the stall that caused the tree strike. The fuselage is damaged on top of previous damage. Under that oak tree is little grass - mostly hard-packed dirt with stones dotted about from generations of cattle sheltering there. Instead of titling the post; "The last flight of. . ." I should have written "The final flight of. . ." which was what I meant. As with most flights I video, the air was really calm, so a smooth flight might be expected. I'm particularly chuffed though with the airspeed. This is quite a big model for me (690cm2 wing) so can fly slowly enough to look scale. No pendulum ailerons. 6° dihedral is adequate/ample but small vertical tail makes things iffy when the wind rises. It has a well-forward CG though which helps a lot.

That Zweibox is a very graceful looking thing,  Dave.

Stephen.
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DHnut
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« Reply #1403 on: September 02, 2020, 05:10:15 AM »

Stephen,
             I had another look at the video and another thought occured to me as well. The model is turning left and the torque raction is greater at the start of the flight and as the motor runs down this element is reducing and the turn is opening out so if the trim is marginal this could result in a stall that gets progressively worse. with indoor models I add right side thrust and counter it with left rudder to minimise this effect. Also the 3 bladed prop will tend to destabilise the directional stability a little. That aside it still was an impressive flight.
Ricky
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dosco
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« Reply #1404 on: September 02, 2020, 07:00:55 AM »

Ricky, the prop drag thing hadn't occurred to me.

I was thinking prop drag ... the plane was so smooth, then during the power-down phase it started to porpoise a bit ... seemed like the only explanation to me. Since the forward fuselage and prop drag are destabilizing forces (since they lay ahead of the CG), that makes sense to me. As such, I'd wonder if you can trim it out, though.

Nonetheless I'm green with envy. A nicely flying Spitfire is something I'd love to build and fly.

Yours is stunningly graceful, and a beauty to boot.

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Depending on thrustline relative to the CG?

Makes sense that any thrust angle would contribute destabilizing forces.


Quote
That Zweibox is a very graceful looking thing,  Dave.

Stephen, that's very nice of you. Thank you. I have to say I'm embarrassed by the throwing peg ... it's large, fat, and klunky. Not unlike the shape of my head.

-Dave
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ffscale
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« Reply #1405 on: September 02, 2020, 12:44:06 PM »

Got a bit of flying in yesterday with some friends at Port Meadow in perfect conditions for lightweight free flight models – wind predicted 3 mph, but it was often less.  Only managed one successful video unfortunately, which was of my 34” span Blackburn Shark, which pottered around in a most satisfactory fashion.  Pete Smart launched so I could take the video.

https://youtu.be/caQzFi0kpAs

I also flew both my Mooney peanuts from the cook up – the Morane Saulnier MS 50C had flown before, but it was first time out for the Ki 27 “Nate”.  I thought it might be tricky, but it trimmed out very easily to give stable left hand circuits with a touch of noseweight and left rudder.  No wing tabs or gurneys required. The Morane got a lot higher, but that is to be expected as it is 5 grams lighter, and both models have a loop of 3/32” rubber on board.  When we get back to indoor flying, the Morane will need a drastic reduction to its motor cross section!
Mike S
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Russ Lister
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« Reply #1406 on: September 02, 2020, 12:51:52 PM »

Really nice flight, Mike ..... envious of being able to fly at Port Meadow  Smiley
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Squirrelnet
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« Reply #1407 on: September 02, 2020, 01:46:00 PM »

Sounds like you had a lovely session on the meadow in what sounds like perfect conditions. Love the video of the Blackburn Shark, such a lovely flyer.

 Hope we can get our visits to coincide soon
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #1408 on: September 02, 2020, 05:23:18 PM »

Lovely Shark flight, Mike, and good to hear the Mooneys were in action as well. (And thanks for that most enjoyable kit scale Zoom session this evening too!)
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« Reply #1409 on: September 02, 2020, 05:44:38 PM »

Yes, all of these planes are "pottering about in a most satisfactory fashion". Nice work, all!
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« Reply #1410 on: September 08, 2020, 06:39:03 PM »

Got out Monday and flew the Miles and Sky Bunny.  This was the third trimming session on the Miles (second was very brief with just a few hand-wound flights).  Moving the CG from 46% to 41% did the model a lot of good - much smoother and less sensitive to upsets.  I put together a few build pics and some flights from the first and third sessions here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v071qtSKtUk

Flew the Sky Bunny for the Labor Day postal contest - it was a hoot!  Flew several flights working up to 1500 turns on a 22" loop of 3/16" rubber, with times approaching two minutes.  Final flight launched nicely and climbed into a decent bubble.  Drifted to the edge of the field under power, then circled in and out of lift over 12 lanes of access roads and freeway, coming to rest about 30 feet up in a tree in front of a Panda Express restaurant!  

I have the flight on video, but it's just a dot for the last 90 seconds.  If you know where to look you can see the model come into view under the overpass and come to rest in the tree.

Came back an hour later with a pole, PVC pipe, a couple of coathangers and some duct tape and was able to retrieve the model undamaged.  Great fun!

Mike
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Re: Went flying.
Re: Went flying.
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Flyguy
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« Reply #1411 on: September 08, 2020, 07:36:30 PM »

Wow Mike, the scale planes at your website look incredibly real, fantastic building! Nice flying as well.

I also got out flying today, first time in a very long time, nice to fly again! I put up a video of two flights of my KK Ace.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzHaygo0iMQ

Very therapeutic to fly again!
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PB_guy
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« Reply #1412 on: September 08, 2020, 11:25:41 PM »

Another Great One, Flyguy!  Cheesy
ian
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MKelly
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« Reply #1413 on: September 09, 2020, 10:01:45 AM »

Your Ace really climbs out Flyguy!  The way fields keep getting developed here I may have to consider rudder control if I want to try flying larger models.

Mike
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Flyguy
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« Reply #1414 on: September 09, 2020, 12:31:18 PM »

Thanks Mike and Ian, I was surprised when I first flew it to find out that the Ace is a real climber! I'm pretty sure I can get it up another 40 or so feet, to about 250 feet, those flights were with 750 winds, and I know I can get up closer to 900. So it's a climber, like the Lanzo and Sky Gull, although the glide isn't quite as good - the data I got yesterday were consistent with what I got for two flying sessions in 2018 (I thought those were last year, not almost 2 years ago!)

I'd recommend around 30" or more for rubber RC (P30 is perfect). Once you add rudder-only you'll notice that there are probably several flyable fields close by! I like being able to get to the field (walking) and fly in 10 minutes, and I'm in Manhattan.
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MKelly
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« Reply #1415 on: September 09, 2020, 01:59:21 PM »

I've been looking at the Berkeley Buccaneer 30 and Henry Cole's Stratosphere as candidate oldtimers.  There are a couple of schoolyards and green spaces nearby that would be flyable in light winds given a way of managing drift.

Mike
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OZPAF
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« Reply #1416 on: September 09, 2020, 08:32:29 PM »

Nice flights Mike and Larry - thanks for the videos. Bad luck re the old field Mike.

Reducing the wing incidence was a good move Larry - it certainly enables the model to rocket up.  I would like to see how reducing the angle between the wing and thrust line would help as well in line with PGI theory. 

I think the lower incidence would also help to avoid dutch roll when the rudder is used on the glide.

John

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Flyguy
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« Reply #1417 on: September 09, 2020, 09:20:03 PM »

I've been looking at the Berkeley Buccaneer 30 and Henry Cole's Stratosphere as candidate oldtimers.  There are a couple of schoolyards and green spaces nearby that would be flyable in light winds given a way of managing drift.

Mike
And that's exactly what it is - essentially just managing drift, this is why I'm somewhat against adding elevator - if you've correctly trimmed the plane (for oldtimers and p30) then you don't need elevator, as I've tried to show. Wake/Coupe is maybe another story, I did use a VIT stab activated by RC years ago for my Coupes, but ended up never using after awhile, they flew great without it!

Henry Cole's Stratosphere has been on my list for awhile, it's absolutely gorgeous, classic looks, plans/article are on outerzone, please build it and post! Plus it's perfect for RC rubber, you can fly it in a high school field. My field is 1.3 acres and I've flown Wakefields in it (though that's pushing the limit a little, you really have to make some tight turns). I like not having to compromise and reduce the winds to fly in a small field, with rudder, you can go full blast, in fact in my field, I learned that its better to get it up high quick to get away from the nearby tall trees. And that's the fun, spectators are always impressed with the altitude you can get with rubber power.

Reducing the wing incidence was a good move Larry - it certainly enables the model to rocket up.  I would like to see how reducing the angle between the wing and thrust line would help as well in line with PGI theory. 

I think the lower incidence would also help to avoid dutch roll when the rudder is used on the glide.

John

Hi John, yes it fits in perfectly with PGI theory, you're the one who made me aware of that, thanks (still have to read that stuff!). For that kind of power burst and climb (a 12" prop is big for this size, the Lanzo is 11"), it would probably do a loop without the incidence reduction, which is quite a bit - an 1/8". In fact, I might add another 1/32" because it was almost hanging on the prop in the video, and that wasn't quite full winds.

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« Reply #1418 on: September 13, 2020, 03:25:02 PM »

Warm and hardly any breeze this afternoon so off I went right after the Formula 1 race with the SAAB in the box.  I had made up a new motor and increased the surface area of the prop plug as well as tightening it up - it was just too wobbly.

The changes worked, but I had forgotten to re-check the balance resulting in the porpoising in the video - shot by my computer guru and fb Stefan.  The next flight (after Stefan had left) with a bit of nose weight was MUCH better but still a teeny bit off.

https://youtu.be/IFcOZBf9x0k
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« Reply #1419 on: September 13, 2020, 08:32:42 PM »

Very promising Pete. It won't take too much to improve that - just a bit more nose weight or perhaps a little less decalage f possible as it appears to have sufficient stability.

John
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #1420 on: September 15, 2020, 03:52:54 PM »

Nice flight, Pit, especially if you ironed out the porpoising on the next one. Nice to see something so different.

Also went flying today. As it's Battle of Britain Day I suppose I should have flown a Spit or Hurricane really, but I don't have one so it was the VMC Tiger Moth again. Mind you, Tiggies certainly played their part training the RAF pilots so perhaps it was still quite appropriate.
Here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhiPdWGK69M&feature=youtu.be
I don't really like the sharp bank at the start, but it's still progress from last time. Bit more detail on my kit scale thread.
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #1421 on: September 15, 2020, 04:02:03 PM »

That's really great Pete!  I think it was only really the sudden gust that exacerbated the initial left-roll... rather than student pilot error!  Grin
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« Reply #1422 on: September 15, 2020, 04:15:05 PM »

Excellent Pete - the SAAB's going to work out well for sure - and good to hear from you.

Flyguy - another flabbergasting video. I've got your vid of the Wakefield with the onboard camera on my hard drive. How you can get a model above 200ft in the middle of Noo Yawk Ciddy just sets my head spinning. Kudosss.

Stephen.
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OZPAF
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« Reply #1423 on: September 15, 2020, 06:28:57 PM »

The Tiger Moth looks great in that colour scheme Pete and a nice flight in gusty conditions. Lots of budding KK grass in your flying field!

John
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« Reply #1424 on: September 17, 2020, 01:26:38 PM »

Very promising Pete. It won't take too much to improve that - just a bit more nose weight or perhaps a little less decalage f possible as it appears to have sufficient stability.

John
Changing the incidence is likely the answer, but quite difficult to do.  The only part that is "changeable" is the stab/elevator and it is effectively built into the booms.  I had taken pains to maintain 2.5° decalage, but with covering, shrinking and dope the set-up may have changed.  I'll try to re-measure and any change will probably occur with a Gurney strip.  I don't care to add any more down thrust as it already looks funky.  A static three-bladed prop (scale) with spinner is being crafted for display - without down thrust Roll Eyes.
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