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Author Topic: Heatwave  (Read 2156 times)
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I hate trees
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« on: October 05, 2010, 11:49:05 AM »

Hi Everyone,
I'm about to start on a new project, its a Heatwave power model by Mike Green, published in Aeromodeller in Jan 58. Apparantley it won open power at the nats in 57. It looks a good, simple design, its 58" span, 8"chord, so 464sq area. I'm guessing it would come out around 17-18oz. I was thinking of powering it with an OS 15fp (on pressure maybe). Does anyone think that will be the right sort of power or will it be a bit sedate on that? Also, has anyone any experience of the model.? I bought the Dreamweaver plan at the same time and its a lovely looking model, but the Heatwave is a bit simpler and may come out a bit lighter. If I get the time I may build them both over the winter, we'll see.

Adam
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glidermaster
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« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2010, 04:54:01 PM »

Adam,
Heatwave will take more power than an OS15FP. If you can get one, I would opt for an OS20FP.

If you are thinking Slow Open, of course pressure feed would be out. But if you're thinking 'Classic' then it would be OK - didn't Mike Green's original have an ETA 29? I'm not 100% sure but I think it may have had auto-rudder, too.

John
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Scottl0413
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« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2010, 09:25:58 AM »

Adam, I've been developing a New plane called a Mustang for pwr. (Pic. attached). started out with a .15 engine but early in the development went to an ST 19. Wing span area is 467 with 8 1/2" cord. A hot 15 like a Rossi or Nelson would probably work but I think the OS15FP will be light.

Scott
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Re: Heatwave
Re: Heatwave
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glidermaster
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« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2010, 10:46:54 AM »

So far as Dreamweaver is concerned, Adam, you're right it is a beauty! (I knew Dave Posner when I was growing up - just to name drop a bit!)

I've known a couple of people build them, and one of the secrets, especially in building the wing and tail is to use good hard balsa for everything except the sheeted areas. It has thin aerofoils for a model of that time.

I corresponded with a guy in the Seattle area for a while who built one for an Oliver Tiger replica, but found it a bit tame. An OS Max 19 pepped it up nicely, apparently.
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« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2010, 12:13:33 PM »

Thanks for the replies guys,
Scott, your Mustang looks great, those six panel wings with the elliptical tips look just right.

You guys have convinced me to go for more power, I have a OS 20fp so I'll give it a go, it just looks so much bigger than the 15 I wondered whether it would be too much.

John, I was thinking of a model for Classic power, which also can be flown in combined Power, of which there are a lot of contests these days. I don't think I'm going to need the extra power of running the 20 on pressure with a larger venturi etc. I did wonder whether I could have a hybrid system where the engine runs on suction and cuts off with a strangler but also has a pressure reservoir just to give the flood off. This would give a clean cut and I would think would also be legal for slow open, although I'd have to check that out.

In the meantime I will attach the pics and plan from the Aeromodeller in case anyone is wondering what this model looks like.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Heatwave
Re: Heatwave
Re: Heatwave
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« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2010, 12:56:38 PM »

Was I right about the ETA 29 in the original?

If you're allowed pressure feed, Adam, use it. You won't regret it.

The only real way to get suction feed totally reliable is to not get the best out of the engine (in my opinion, that is).
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« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2010, 03:14:04 PM »

"Was I right about the ETA 29 in the original?"

No I wasn't - the plan, now I look at it, has what appears to be a Frog 249 diesel. Now that would be tame, but I guess they had 15 secs run back then!
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« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2010, 04:38:13 PM »

Adam, I really like the looks of the Heatwave!!! Do you know if it's Nostalgia legal here in the states? Do you have any information as to when it was first designed and flown? I think you'll be very happy with the performance using the OS20FP. I have a brand new OS20FP that I don't know what to do with!!!! I might try it on my Mustang!!

Scott
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« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2010, 05:43:17 PM »

Adam

The future's bright, the future's ELECTRIC Shocked

Bin that noisy smelly recalcitrant glo' motor.... you know it makes sense. Pop in a nice brushless motor and controller and you'll have instant starts, clean trousers and no need to wash down the model and car interior after every comp. You'll be able to fly in combined power as before (with a 20 sec motor run), plus open electric and F1Q - what more could you ask for! No doubt Lord Thompson the lurker will berate me for trying to persuade you to do something sensible Grin

Whatever you decide to do, I hope to see it on a flying field soon!

Toodle pip

Peter
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« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2010, 05:58:17 PM »

John
Mike Green's ETA 29 model was the Hellbender, a Model Aircraft plan around 1960/61 - a very good model.

Paul
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applehoney
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« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2010, 07:23:44 PM »

Bin that noisy smelly recalcitrant glo' motor.... you know it makes sense.

No sense whatsoever. Real men fly with engines, not soulless electric motors Wink
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danberry
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« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2010, 07:48:41 PM »

No sense whatsoever. Real men fly with engines, not soulless electric motors Wink

 Grin
Now that f1Q has been re-defined, there would be no use in flying that plane in f1Q.

It does look like a simplified JaysBird.
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« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2010, 09:53:02 PM »

Is the 'Heatwave' Nostalgia eligible?? Also...You Satelite guys, I saw a plan for a 'Foam Satelite',underslung fin, Holland Hornet, Nos.Gas.Huh Also, Nice Mustang Scott

DDock
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« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2010, 03:06:44 AM »

Glad you guys like the look of the Heatwave, it gives me encouragement to make a start.

I don't think its Nostalgia legal in the States, its not on the NFFS list. I don't know what the criteria is for a model to be accepted. As I said, the model was published in Aeromodeller in Jan 58 and won the British Nats in 57. The article says it is the latest from a series of models, so there was probably some earlier. I can have an ask around. I'm sure there will be some on this forum who will know more about Mike Green and which club he used to be in. I have a nagging feeling that there was a Mike Green who used to belong to the Croydon club, whether he is the same Mike and whether he is still with us (in every sense of the word) I don't know.

John, no ETA 29 but as you see, a Frog 2.49, hence my slight trepidation at the thought of the OS20fp! Anyway, it'll be exciting while it lasts...

Incidentally, why do you think he mounted the engine the "other" way round to normal? lefty maybe?

Adam
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« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2010, 09:28:10 AM »

Not Nostalgia-legal, sadly
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RobinB
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« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2010, 09:50:31 AM »

Mike Green's ETA 29 model with auto-rudder was 'Trans-Galactic'
FZYB 1964-65 p.67

Robin (power model geek)
p.s. Adam, don't listen to those electric guys - they're always trying to recruit new cult members Smiley
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« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2010, 10:59:18 AM »

Trans-Galactic, that's it - well done Robin!

Frog 2.49BB - probably about 1/4 hp (maybe a little more).
OS 15FP - 0.45 hp
OS 20FP - 0.55-0.6 hp which is quite a lot more than 1/4 hp, really.

Maybe the 15FP would be OK - if you can keep it light.
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PeeTee
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« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2010, 11:01:19 AM »

Quote
Adam, don't listen to those electric guys - they're always trying to recruit new cult members

Absolutely, I might even put a hex on Adam if he ventures over to Chobham again Grin

As for Dan, all I would say is - fear not, the fat lady hasn't sung yet......... the technophobes are on the case Wink

Peter
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« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2010, 12:08:48 PM »

Peter,
Lord Thompson has indeed spoken, via email. I am to ignore you and any mention of electric motors. He also enlightened me as to the reason the engine was mounted the other way round. It allows you to flick and then adjust compression with the model pointed upwards, avoiding having to rotate the model etc before launch.

I was going to modify the front end to take a commercial engine mount. I'll see if I can allow for subsequent changing from a 15 to a 20. It makes sense to start with the 15 and change up if the model isn't going quick enough.

Right, I'm off upstairs to make the rib templates.
Adam
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« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2010, 12:17:25 PM »

Pictures, Adam, don't forget pictures. We need to load this forum with power model activity!

Electric's all very well, Peetee, even the illustrious George Fuller has gone electric, but nothing beats the rush a glow motor coming on song gives you. My heart is still beating fast from flying my G15 Vintage FAI Model at the weekend (and I'm still crying at the result)!

John
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« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2010, 06:52:09 AM »

I'm not sure if it's the typical Aeromodeller style of picture or the rather functional no-nonsense look of the wing, but it keeps reminding me of Jack North

Robin
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« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2010, 12:10:59 PM »

Progress so far:
I've built the flying surfaces apart from a few gussets etc and final sanding. Should be a couple of pics attached, nothing too exciting yet...

The wing weighs 118g, (a couple of the spars I've substituted hard wood for strength) Stab 28g, fin 7g. The engine, mount, timer and prop will weigh around 8oz so I reckon the model will be around 19oz (very early prediction!).

The second pic shows the wing and stab the requisite distance apart (25 inches). It's a much bigger model than it looks on the plan. I'm going with the OS 20. Apparently one of my clubmates has built on which goes well on a 20, he also corresponded with Mike Green to get as much info as possible. Sadly, Mike died a year or so back. I'll drop my clubmate a line and find out what he recommends regarding set up etc.

I'll start on the fus and pylon next week, hopefully it'll be ready for covering before too long.

Adam
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Re: Heatwave
Re: Heatwave
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« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2010, 09:06:02 AM »

Adam, very nice build so far. Love the wing construction, must be stiff as a board! You'll like the power of the OS 20. Keep us informed on your progress on the Heatwave!

Scott
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« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2010, 03:30:39 PM »

Very nice work Adam.

I don't know, but you might be slightly pessimistic in your weight estimates there. I guess the last ounce or so will depend on what finish you apply, but the weights for the wing and tail look good.

One of the models left when my Dad died in '92 was on OS20FP Slow Open model, which I have since flown quite a lot. It is well over 600 sq. ins (wing and tail) and weighs something like 26 oz. It is far from slow. I think Heatwave on the OS15 will be good, but the idea of a changeable engine mount is a good one. Just bear in mind to make the tank a little on the large side for a 15.

John
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« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2010, 08:42:26 AM »

Any chance that Mr. Green designed and flew the Heat Wave in 1956?? Sure would be nice if this design was Nos. eligible.

DDock
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