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Author Topic: FAI Version of Dixielander Info. Wanted  (Read 925 times)
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johnffav8r
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« on: October 11, 2010, 06:46:56 PM »

All,

I have seen a couple of references in AeroModeller, I believe, of a FAI version of Fuller's Dixielander. Doe's anybody know anything about this version, or what the specific differences from the stock machine are? I am interested in building one, since it could do double duty in both Nostalgia Gas and Vintage FAI (assuming the FAI version is 1956 or earlier).

Thanks,

John Smiley
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glidermaster
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« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2010, 08:30:25 PM »

I've not seen a FAI Dixielander per se, but George Fuller had a 'derivative' FAI model called Trad Lad which appeared in 1968, and was published in Free Flight News as a reduced scale plan sometime in about mid 1969. He flew it in the 1969 World Champs in Austria, and was top Brit. gaining 9th place in the fly-off.

It had tapered wing tips, but was otherwise very much a stretched Dixielander, with almost identical construction other than the engine mount.

I built one as a Vintage FAI Power model a while back, and there are a couple of pics of it in the Power Models thread of the Power Models Section here on Hip Pocket.

John
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johnffav8r
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« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2010, 03:02:16 AM »

Yes, I'm familiar with the Trad Lad, but the version I'm seeking appeared to occur early in the Dixielander development, if not at the prototype stage. One of those AeroModeller articles that I will try to dig out showed an old picture of George launching a Dixielander that appeared to have a tapered box fuselage instead of the slab sided stock one and a somewhat longer wing. Could that be the FAI version? I recall another AeroModeller article in which George was discussing the Dixielander prototype, in which he said that originally the wing had two more rib bays in the tip panels, which he had to remove to get the model to fly right, but no mention of an FAI version. Huh


John
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glidermaster
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« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2010, 11:50:20 AM »

You're not thinking of Zoot Suit are you? (2nd 1953 World Champs)

I might be wrong, but I don't think George flew any FAI from about mid/late 50's to late 60's with Trad Lad.

Other stretched Dixielanders did appear, though, notably the 'E Type Dixie' with ETA 29 which was only stretched to 55" span where the original Dixie was 50". There was a significantly bigger one that had a Fox 59, too. There were a couple of pics of both in Aeromodeller, and the reference to a tapered fuselage made me think of the Fox 59 model.

One funny thing about Fuller models that have appeared in mags like Aeromodeller over the years is that they ALL look like Dixielanders - the rubber models and gliders, too.

I guess I'm quite the Fuller Geek, really, but then I have known him more or less since I was born.

John
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johnffav8r
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« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2010, 09:58:45 AM »

I'm familiar with the Zoot Suit. The fact that it was flown FAI makes me think that the FAI Dixielander might have followed it, perhaps being a prototype Dixielander. Since the prototype had two more rib bays in each tip panel, that would have sized the wing appropriately for FAI.

Since you know George, is there any way you could contact him for more information?

Thanks,

John
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RobinB
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« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2010, 12:10:51 PM »

I might be seeing him at the weekend - I'll ask him about it.

I always thought the E-type (E for extended) had an extra bay in each panel i.e. 58" span. 2" extra moment arm and slightly milder CG (95%).
I'll ask him about that too, if I remember.
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glidermaster
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« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2010, 02:11:23 PM »

I always thought the 'extra panel' part of the story was in the inner panels. The story, as I remember it, was that 'Development Dixies' (pre kit release) were bigger, but one suffered a wing fold in testing. It was hurriedly put back together at the reduced span, and the rest is history, as they say.

The 'E type' had VIT and A/R, too Robin - I have the Free Flight News with it in, I'll check the size.

Give George my best at the w/e!

John
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applehoney
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« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2010, 06:37:09 PM »

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Give George my best at the w/e!

Mine too, if you please!

Jim
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« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2010, 01:29:03 PM »

Have a look at the SAM 1066 website, in the index of previous Clarions if you check out Jan 2009 you'll find a lot about the Dixielander and there's an interview with George Fuller. I think it says that there wasn't an earlier FAI version of the Dixie, but there was a later one. Anyway, it makes interesting reading.
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johnffav8r
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« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2010, 05:17:57 PM »

Good tip and article on SAM 1066 site. I got a chance to start looking up the Aeromodeller articles I mentioned earlier. The September 2009 issue p. 43 & 44 has an article on George and the Dixielander. It states that "The FAI version took a fellow St Albans member into the British team for the 1960 WC". There is also a picture of a young George about to launch a bulkier tapered box fuselage Dixielander with what appears to be one additional rib bay in inner and outer wing panels compared to stock plans. This pic is captioned "George Fuller with an even earlier Dixielander precurser". If the caption is correct, then this version could be Nostalgia legal, but the question still remains as to if this could be the FAI version? I guess the question could actually be moot, since according to NFFS Vintage FAI power rules, one can fly any vintage period model as long as it meets period FAI rule requirements, and not actually designed for FAI. I actually clarified this with Bob Stalick some time ago, who was instrumental in drafting the NFFS rules.

John
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RobinB
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« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2010, 02:05:49 PM »

Didn't see George - apparently he flew at a different venue. Someone maxed out in F1Q today flying an electric Dixielander - that just didn't look right !!

Robin
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glidermaster
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« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2010, 03:32:42 PM »

Darn! I was looking forward to the next installment on this one.
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« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2010, 04:14:48 PM »

George went to Salisbury Plain, where the fetchermites are younger and more receptive to taking orders Grin Grin

He didn't max out though, and wasn't flying a Dixie, though his electric models are based on one of his later power designs.

Peter
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RobinB
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« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2010, 07:39:19 AM »

I always thought the 'extra panel' part of the story was in the inner panels.

The model George is holding in the picture in the 'Fuel and Shut-off' thread is what I meant by E-type. It has extra rib bays but no VIT/AR as it's for SLOP. (Gravity-fed modified OSFP20) It's not, as John points out, an actual E-type. George always maintains that the original size (50") models fly better than the bigger versions.

I remember, as a callow lad, seeing Carl Simeons flying in competitions at Chobham. I can't recall his FAI version ever being published, tho'.

Robin
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johnffav8r
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« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2010, 05:06:35 PM »

Well, since the results, at least thus far, are inconclusive, I'm going to plan B for a simple, quick build dual event model. I'm reviewing my plans for the T-Bird 408, Tatone Frisco Kid, and have the Creep plan coming from NFFS.

Thanks for all the input,
John
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applehoney
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« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2010, 07:10:02 PM »

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the Creep plan coming

Great airplane but .... it's rigged zero-zero. There were 'Creeps' everywhere soon after it was first published, climbing spectacularly for the day; unfortunately a large percentage came straight down again after the engine cut. Transition had to be faultless to succeed.

I've built several, then and since - 'stock size' and scaled for 1/2A and 1/4A Nostalgia. A small degree of incidence makes all the difference, my last .15 version flew from 1980 until about four/five years ago.
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gossie
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« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2010, 10:39:36 PM »

Just further to the Creep. I built one 5 or 6 years ago just because I wanted to, and put a Cox.09 on pressure into it with a Seelig timer.

It flew very well but the only thing it was good for here was 'for fun' or our Open Power. I had a couple of reasonable Rossi powered open models so it never got used.

Recently our Vintage Power rules were changed from pre. '55 to pre. '57, so Creep being a '55 model as confirmed by Brian Eggleston (Thanks Jim for the addy) is now legal but not with the Cox...... it's too new and not before '57, so I put a beam mount original Elfin 2.49 into it. It should go well, but needed a few grams of weight on the rear to keep the CG just in front of the TE.

As Jim suggested back when I built it I did add a degree or 2 of incidence on the wing to make it safer.
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