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Author Topic: Vintage Team Racing  (Read 8207 times)
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JohnOSullivan
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« Reply #50 on: November 15, 2011, 06:31:09 PM »

Well he's a ringer for me :lol:

Dave Boyd (Belfast MFC) - I had a tiny Sopwith Triplane at that Nats (or was it the all white PR Spit that I had managed to nick the fuel tubing in and couldn't get the engine to run?)

You forgot to mention the Rapide with the camouflaged outboard wings and if I recall a Caudron Luciole Wink Also the SE5 that the painter had gone crazy on and started lozenge camouflaging that too Cheesy

I ended up chatting in German with a couple of the 'Technical Advisers' (a pair of Luftstreitkrafte veterans) and did ask them why the Pattee Crosses on the D VII - they just looked at me and said something like "Don't blame us - we DID tell them it should have been a Greek Cross but they just ignored us"

beir buadh 's beannacht - Daithi

As it happens, I just came across the MACI newsletter from August 1965. You are listed as flying a Spitfire in the Scale Nationals.
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John O'Sullivan
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whipandflick
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« Reply #51 on: November 16, 2011, 02:43:36 AM »

No - not me !

I competed in Vintage Team Racing and flew competitively in Class 1/2A, A and B. I was more successful flying Class B and made the UK National Finals twice with pitmen Phil Durkin and later with Denis Ward.

My main concern was revitalising the Class 1/2A and after the PAW 09 TBR was allowed as an acceptable motor in this class, I lost interest and started to draw the models to the current VTRSIG (Vintage Team Race Special Interest Group) rules and criteria. This included Class B models but to approximately 66% size.

With the help of Dick Hart I edited the Vintage Team Race News which was posted through out most of the Vintage Team Race fraternity. (I will be sending copy to the administrator for him to assess whether or not he wishes to copy and include data in the plan gallery).

Never flown scale other than my very stand off scale Vintage 1/2A model of the P40, plans included in the 'Builders Plan Gallery' and also covered as a plan feature in Model Flyer magazine article and plan - January 2001.
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perttime
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« Reply #52 on: November 16, 2011, 03:16:00 AM »

I have downloaded five issues of Vintage T/R News on my computer, from http://mariofer.free.fr/VTRNEWS/ . Some of the files are larger than the Plans Gallery usually accepts. Otherwise, there shouldn't be a problem with putting them either with Racer plans or in the Written Articles section of the Gallery.
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whipandflick
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« Reply #53 on: November 16, 2011, 04:14:23 AM »

The very early VTR News Letters were A4 folded (one maybe two pages) and had a very limited circulation. The last few were produced to a very high standard, colour with very professional layout (courtesy of Dick Hart. He of C/L Pulse Jet vintage speed fame)

I believe I am alone in having each and every one of the issues. Dick has the last few as adobe files. Will have to ask him to send them direct?
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Daithi
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« Reply #54 on: November 16, 2011, 09:16:46 AM »


As it happens, I just came across the MACI newsletter from August 1965. You are listed as flying a Spitfire in the Scale Nationals.

Entered maybe but not flown - when I fitted the top cowling block I managed to nick the fuel tubing and it's first flight was at the Nats - end result was we couldn't get the engine to run. It may have been the Leinster champs when I had the Sopwith (I remember the German guys wanting to play with it)

There's a faint bell ringing in the back of my mind - are you the one whose grandfather was on the other side in '16? (RFC) Cheesy
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It's not that modelling is in my blood. My blood is on a LOT of balsa Wink
JohnOSullivan
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« Reply #55 on: November 23, 2011, 05:16:16 PM »


There's a faint bell ringing in the back of my mind - are you the one whose grandfather was on the other side in '16? (RFC) Cheesy

No, all our crowd kept well away from conflicts.
You may be thinking of Johnnie Carroll, whose father flew SE5a in WWI.

John
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John O'Sullivan
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« Reply #56 on: November 26, 2011, 04:35:13 AM »

One of the recent additions to the racer Plans Gallery had caught my attention before: VTRSIG 1/2A "JR's 6.5". I'm not sure if it is the design or the skilful builder, but somehow it manages to look so "muscular" for a small aircraft.

Here's a photo I must have found browsing the Barton Club forums:
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whipandflick
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« Reply #57 on: November 29, 2011, 04:26:28 AM »

The model above was conceived by John Ridley and is the reduce Walker / Tuthill No 13, hence J.R's 6.5. It was drawn at approximately 66% reduction to Vintage Class 1/2A criteria.

John still flies vintage team race with John Gibbs and Julio Isidro. He is and excellent builder and pitman. John is responsible for researching many old (pre 1957) designs which are now regularly used in team race circles (pun intended).

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gossie
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« Reply #58 on: July 18, 2016, 05:02:22 AM »

SORCERER has had a refurbish by Yeppoon Fredo ready for Class B Team Race at Rocky Rally in September.
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« Reply #59 on: August 02, 2016, 09:55:09 PM »

Regarding fuel ...

More kerosene , should give you more range ..
More either , better starting ...
Ignition improver  - What works for you ..

Oil ( Castor ) Is heavy .. and slows an engine down ...
I did an experiment a long time ago where I started with 30% castor and worked my way to 20% checking RPM ..
Yep .. Less oil = more RPM or power if you will ..

One way to cheat is to use synthetic oil , its lighter so should give more precious RPM ..
The other trick is to equip your model with a cut off ..
Use it to tune your motor , then disable for the race .. ( no cut offs in Vintage ) 
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gossie
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« Reply #60 on: August 02, 2016, 10:35:47 PM »

A good mix for diesels is 50% kero, 30% ether, 20% castor, then add 2% DII.

For just general flying 1/3 of each is fine.
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old4570
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« Reply #61 on: August 02, 2016, 10:59:26 PM »

yeah .. 1/3 - 1/3 - 1/3 ...

was good in the day when people had no access to measuring tools or ignition improver ..
Also when most flew FF and used larger propellers ( Larger prop = less compression to get a tune )

  Fuel formulas are ?? 

   The most critical component is the either , and generally 30% to 35% is the norm ( anywhere )
As for oil , it would depend very much on the engine ..
If you have a rare valuable antique engine that is made from questionable material then 30% oil would be a very good idea ..
For most sport engines , and this includes Supertigres , olivers , PAW and such , 25% castor is a great idea for general sport flying ..
I had several G15 diesel engines , and they were hard to tune on 20% castor .. A real PITA ...
So one day I thought , ok .. I will jack the oil to 25% and see what happens ..  My G15 Diesels ran like swiss watches ...
The G20 Diesels seem more tolerant towards 20% castor , same with Rossi Diesels .. 
But if you want them to last , 25% is not going to kill them , in fact they may live much much longer ..  ( If you care about that )
I cant remember any more what 5% Castor was worth ( RPM ) it may have been 500 to 1000 RPM

Ignition improver ...

Just depends where in the world you are and what you are permitted to use ?
Stuff from Henry Nelson , generally 1.5% , and I went as high as 2%
Amyl Nitrate , from say 2% to 4% Depending on engine and application ( If you can get your hands on it )
And as for the rest Huh Use enough to make a difference ..
If you cant get ignition improver , just run a larger prop ...

1.5cc , they ran 8x4 without ignition improver and 9x4 for FF
2.5cc , you may want to run about 9x4 , anything less than 8x4 will really hammer the engine ...

Either ---

Already mentioned 30 to 35% ( it does not matter that much ) But for racing you may want more kerosene for range ..
I remember trying 25% either with about 2% Dii ( nelson stuff ) to increase range , and the engine became a little tricky to start ..
30% Either seemed to be about the minimum for reliable starting ( Warm engine )
Some engines on 30% can be a real PITA to start when cold .. So 35% could be the go if this is the case for you .. 

Kero , whats left is the Kero content ..

Use the oil you need , ignition improver as needed , either as needed , and whats left is Kero content .. 
 
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gossie
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« Reply #62 on: August 06, 2016, 07:58:01 PM »

Ready to race again in September.
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greggles47
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« Reply #63 on: August 16, 2016, 10:31:17 AM »

A good mix for diesels is 50% kero, 30% ether, 20% castor, then add 2% DII.

For just general flying 1/3 of each is fine.


The famous "Olly Brew". The starting point for many Vintage A racers.

When I was racing them, the DII would be changed according to atmospheric conditions. As little as .1% had a noticable affect.














5
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gossie
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« Reply #64 on: August 16, 2016, 05:47:44 PM »

Yeppoon Fredo's Footprint just finished with brand spanking new Oliver Tiger just arrived from the UK.
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OZPAF
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« Reply #65 on: August 16, 2016, 06:08:53 PM »

Nice models Gossie. Good luck with your Sorcerer.
I ran 40% Ether, 30% oil, 30% Kero many years ago in an old Mk 1 Bee. An old Skyhawk member gave me the formula.
It's still in running condition - 50yrs later - no repairs.
John
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greggles47
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« Reply #66 on: August 20, 2016, 06:02:16 AM »

Today I had a fly of a Vin B bound for Rocky.

Not blistering quick, but fun to fly a B model again, even if not in anger.
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« Reply #67 on: August 21, 2016, 08:45:38 PM »

Sounds like fun.
John
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gossie
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« Reply #68 on: August 22, 2016, 12:08:01 AM »

Today I had a fly of a Vin B bound for Rocky.

Not blistering quick, but fun to fly a B model again, even if not in anger.

Do tell Greggles.........Model, engine and who's going to Rocky, but only if you wish on the last one.
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greggles47
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« Reply #69 on: August 23, 2016, 07:05:37 AM »

Enya 29 powered Starbomb. Loverly upright engine, flies great.
Was running on stunt fuel, so on a race brew and without the muffler could get up and boogie.

Don Keysecker is the owner builder making the long haul to Rocky.
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gossie
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« Reply #70 on: August 23, 2016, 05:42:40 PM »

Enya 29 powered Starbomb. Loverly upright engine, flies great.
Was running on stunt fuel, so on a race brew and without the muffler could get up and boogie.

Don Keysecker is the owner builder making the long haul to Rocky.

I believe there is another Starbomb at Rocky, so NSW will not be alone.
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greggles47
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« Reply #71 on: October 05, 2016, 01:20:14 AM »

Enya 29 powered Starbomb. Loverly upright engine, flies great.
Was running on stunt fuel, so on a race brew and without the muffler could get up and boogie.

Don Keysecker is the owner builder making the long haul to Rocky.

Don came back with the very good news that he won the Rocky Rally.

Last man standing apparently. Good news anyway.
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gossie
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« Reply #72 on: October 05, 2016, 04:33:42 AM »

They won because they were prepared and knew what they were doing.    Well done to them.
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Ployd
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« Reply #73 on: October 08, 2016, 01:24:34 AM »

Tada, the winning team. Don (owner/pilot, centre), Reg Towell (refueler/engine starter, right and Peter Lloyd (plug driver/model release). The only serious contender did one too many "touch and goes" resulting in an OS25 FXS doing a "shaft run"...much blue smoke!

For me, 4900Km round trip to participate.

Ployd in OZ
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old4570
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« Reply #74 on: January 17, 2017, 09:06:20 PM »

Dii ,

 Yeah , I tried running 1.4 , 1.5 and I found it not to my liking at all ..
In fact I found tune ability to improve greatly once I hit 1.7% , and 1.7% became my standard Dii amount for all my fuels / engines ..
The highest I ever went was maybe 2.4% Dii , hmmmm . Interesting things happen north of 2% Dii  ( Very interesting )

 So depending on the weather , I would run 1.7% or 1.8%  Nelson Dii  ..
And for some reason , my genuine olive tigers really liked 2% Dii or even more .. 
We do what we do because it works for us , it does not matter what works for some one else . ( As long as what you are doing works for you )
If what you are doing is not working , then the obvious conclusion is your doing something wrong !

 I am simply amazed how many times I have been on the flying field and people just dont seem to grasp this simple concept .

Story time :

 Was some time in the late 80's and I had just arrived at the Moorabbin Field .
I sat in the car for a few minutes absorbing the atmosphere on the flying field ( It was good to watch people having fun ) .
When my eye spotted a group of people trying to start an engine ..

 I was intrigued as the engine did not want to start ( apparently ) ,
I walked over and watches as half a dozen people were trying to start a taipan diesel ..
After watching a while I mentioned that they should back off the compression ( engine was popping like it was over compressed )
Well , I wont go into detail ..  But after a minute or so I was offered the opportunity to start the engine ..
I turned the prop over and could feel the contra piston  ..............  Eeeeek ! 

 I turned the compression screw back 2 or 3 turns and gave the engine a flick to back the contra off ..
A few flicks more and the engine was running ... 
 I could actually hear the over compression as Huh? was trying to start the engine .. And they just kept increasing the compression when they should have backed it off . ( Was a experienced modeler )

 So ends the tale .. 

 
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