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Author Topic: new build - doggy style  (Read 2761 times)
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Si2
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« on: May 20, 2011, 05:21:40 AM »

Here are my first balsa planes for at least twenty years.
As a kid I did free flight rubber, control line and chuck gliders, but I've not toughed the light wood since.

Whilst idly cruising the internet a few weeks ago I came across the Chuck Glider blog and was intruiged by the Dogchew glider.
So I popped to the local model shop and purchased a plank of 1/16th balsa and some cement.
As it turned out the 1/16th sheet is some of the toughest, hardest, heaviest balsa I have ever used, so the planes are a little clunky.
I built a dogchew for myself and both of my boys.
Then I knocked up a dog ear to see if I could do the different style of wing.

They have only clocked up garden length test flights so far, the dogear performing the best of the bunch.

I've grabbed a few more plans from the plans page and I'll be back the model shop this afternoon to get some more suitable balsa!
Si2
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Maxout
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« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2011, 08:55:41 AM »

You didn't waste any time...

Assuming those are indeed 6" or 8" gliders, you're encouraged to join the fray of competing to be this year's tiny glider expert (which gains you fame, glory, and the admiration of small children and pets). More to the point, we need more entries. Grin

http://tinygliders2011.blogspot.com/

Oh, and another shameless plug, if you want another interesting one to try, my Sweepette 8 plans are in the archive here. It makes for a good airplane. Be warned, though, that for all of these, once you start catapult launching, 1/16" balsa is no longer good enough. I've shattered many on launch because their wings could not stand up to the speeds attained.
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Si2
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« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2011, 10:59:31 AM »

They are all six inchers - I'd love to go postal.
I've printed off a few 8 inch ones today and I got some lighter wood for wings, so I'll have a go and a throw over the weekend.
Si2
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Si2
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« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2011, 04:45:01 AM »

I built a Krazy Katz 'L' last night.
I think I got it right, but the plan doesn't define the leading or trailing edge of the wing.
I went for the straight edge as trailing...

Si
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crashcaley
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« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2011, 08:42:57 AM »

Si2,  Great you're back in the fray.  Happy you're introducing your youngsters to the hobby.  They should have lots of fun with their unending energy supplies.   Smiley  Caley
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« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2011, 05:14:41 PM »

I built a Krazy Katz 'L' last night.
I think I got it right, but the plan doesn't define the leading or trailing edge of the wing.
I went for the straight edge as trailing...

Si
You've got it right.  It should be clear from the plan (top) view.  If it isn't too late, add a smidgen of dihedral in the center (1/8th inch or 1/16 per side).  Helps with consistency.   Just be SURE to glue ALL joints securely and try to refrain from using 1/4" rubber - it'll go supersonic - 1/8 SS is more than enough.
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Si2
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« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2011, 04:02:33 AM »

There was no plan view on my plan, just a front elevation.
But there were a few pics of them on the net and they confirmed the straight trailing edge.
The wind is really blowing in the UK at the moment, so I'm not chucking anything up in the air.

I'm desperately waiting for that calm night - I've made my kids catapults, so they are too!

Si
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« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2011, 08:57:04 AM »

You're right (again Embarrassed)!  I'd gotten used (read: lazy) and simply oriented the LE of the wing and stab to the top of the page.  In all reality, one could orient the wing EITHER way and it should work fine - as long as the high-point is "forward" Grin.
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Si2
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« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2011, 04:17:28 AM »

I got some flying in yesterday!
I had to wait till nearly nine pm for the wind to drop to a slight breeze. I grabbed my pack of sticks and ran for the park.
I had three dog chews, a dog ear and a Katze L.
Boy are those catapult gliders a blast to launch - such an elegant experience when compared to the flailing salmon leap of the chuck glider!

I did some initial trimming flights and got some nice gliding, my number 2 dog chew performing alarmingly well on the glide.

then it was flinging time - some initial medium weight throws were showing nice transistions on some gliders and 160 degree transitions on others with a rather fast re-entry.

My katze managed two rather nice pikes at the top of the launch and came back down at my feet at high speed...

I spent twenty minutes tweaking nose weight and flexing stabs and tabs and eventually got some nice transitions and glide paths, flights of around 15 to 20 seconds across the fleet.
I was a little reticent to really let rip as I was sharing the park with a dog, and I know where these gliders go their name from....

I shot the katze on an old tan band I happened to have in the kitchen drawer, pulling around 8 inches. A real mix of transitions, from super slick roll and turn to nose dive.
I have a lot to learn when it comes to rubber!
Any goods advice when it comes to where to point it and where the wind shoudl be coming from?

Great time was had, the dark paint on the wing tips really helps to locatae the glider in the sky and on the ground.
I am awaiting the weekend and twill be pulling the stop watch out to record some postal times!!

best regards
Si
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« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2011, 08:36:12 AM »

Launch elevation (how "high" you point it up) depends a bit on the way the glider "likes" to climb.  You naturally want a relatively straight climbout with a roll or "flop at the top - but that is often difficult to achieve with the 6 inchers.  An elevation of 70-80° is what to look for with a fair amount of right bank held in at release (for RIGHT - LEFT flight pattern).

Launch just right of the wind in most cases (left for lefties).  Standing 90° to the breeze (wind on your left side) will, in conjunction with the natural launch angle, get you close.  For lefties with a LEFT-RIGHT flight pattern, stand with the breeze on your RIGHT side.

If the Kitty Katze is "lawn-darting" it lacks decalage.  Glue-stick a narrow strip of normal weight BOND PAPER (about 1/32 x 3/16ths to the UPPER side of the stab on the opposite side of the turn direction.

What happens with a hand toss?
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Si2
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« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2011, 09:45:54 AM »

The KK did a bit of both - some straight up and straight back down and some awesome transitions from apex to smooth glide.
Hence I figured my launch was at fault...
The wind is up again now, so I'm not sure I'll get another chance.

But it's a bank holiday weekend in the UK coming up, traditionally that means storms and rain, so I live in hope....

If the weathers bad I'll just have to build a few more - I'm downloading catapult plans now.


Si
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« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2011, 10:16:21 AM »

Then it might be the boom being unstable or the stab too soft.  I build all my wood booms as a laminate to help keep them straight using CA (thin) as the adhesive - more stable against changes in temp and humidity.  Also, if your hands are perspiring, continued handling of the boom/tail surfaces WILL change the CG minutely - on a 6" model, disaterous.
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Si2
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« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2011, 12:15:01 PM »

I'll try a launch as you suggest with wind over the left shoulder.
Last night I shot it pretty much straight in to the wind - although it was very light.
I did laminate the fuselage - using some pretty hard 1/16th sheet and some water thin CA - still got some under my fingernails now...

It was all abit exciting and erratic to be honest; I need a bit longer and a nice daylight session.

The hand launch was nice and glidey.
Si
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Si2
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« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2011, 02:20:08 PM »

I've just spent an hour in the fields behind my house throwing wood into the wind.
A couple of steps, a jump and a follow through.

Awesome fun!

I got a 30+ out of my dog ear and about 12+ out of the chew, that included some pretty nifty inverted flying!

More chucking, more trimming, more gliders and more sunny evenings - here we come!


Si
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Si2
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« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2011, 07:39:47 AM »

I made another couple of dog ears last night with some small tweaks here and there.
I tried as hard as I could to keep the weight down.
My first one I ever built, a few weeks back, came in at 5.3g - way over the suggested 3.2g...
But it does seem to glide nicely - althoug it certainly doesn't float.
I had some very hard balsa that I used because it was all I had.

The last two were built with selected balsa and a constant effort to trim weight off.
My first was 2.8g and featured carbon fibre strips along each side of the fuslelage - 2.5mm high and from the wing LE to the stab trailing edge - the fuse was quite light 1/16th.
The second was 3.0g dead, again with carbon on a thin fuse - this time tapered slightly - which is not easy and leads to fraying and nasty little carbon splinters.
Both gliders are just over 6 inches span - I must have messed up my template slightly when flipping it over. So I'll need to knock a couple of mm of each tip to make them legal - they fly well in my lounge - at leastuntill they hit the far wall!

Great flying weather today on the South coast of the UK - force 5/6 winds and lashing rain!

I'm hoping for a good weekend - the kids are desperate to chuck theirs too - so if the UK returns to 'summer' soon I'll be posting some times for all three of us. I don't epect them to be very good, but I do expect to have some fun blasting balsa!

Best regards
Si2
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 08:10:25 AM by Si2 » Logged
Si2
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« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2011, 03:21:09 PM »

latest dogear

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Si2
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« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2011, 07:00:01 AM »

The sky cleared yesterday and the wind dropped to a modest 5-7mph in the evening.
So I grabbed the latest bunch of dog based gliders and headed for the field.
I threw from 8 till 10pm, the wind finally dying completely about 9:15 as the sun dipped below the horizon.

I took a stop watch but I'll not be posting up any times as the best I could achieve was a single 35 seconds effort.
Everything else was 20 or under.

I really struggle to get any duration out of these things even though the glide path is just sublime on the two latest planes.

I also pinged my katze L CLG - this performs three enormous loops on launch and then glides nicely, although the duration is dependant on where the third loop ends. It is a bit of a brick, being built from my hefty balsa. I'll have another go at creating one out of the nice light stuff I have now.

It started to get pretty damp at ten pm when I made for home and one of my Dog ears stabs took a curl on one edge producing some endearing airobatic performances.

I had a great time, my arms a bit stiff this morning, I produced no competition winning flights, but it was a real pleasure to watch these tiny planes circle in the twilight.

I've no idea how you guys get 90 seconds+ out of them!
I did see one dog ear climb on one flight, but only about two feet for a split second as it rounded in to the wind.


Hopefully the British Summer is here to stay and I'll be back in action again soon .

Si2
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« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2011, 07:46:08 AM »

Well done! Keep at it. 90 seconds is only possible from thermals. You'll probably lose a few when you start getting long flights!
If the stabs are curling you don't have enough finish on them.
If your model does 3 loops on launch it has way, way too much decalage!
And 30 seconds for an 8" hand launch glider is actually very good!


Tony
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« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2011, 10:25:50 AM »

I took a stop watch but I'll not be posting up any times as the best I could achieve was a single 35 seconds effort.
Everything else was 20 or under.

My arm is a lot better than it used to be, and the absolute best I've gotten in dead air from a hand launched glider this size is 29 seconds. The amount of effort to get my arm strong enough and to get the glider efficient enough was significant. Anyway, once you can fairly consistently get 18-20 seconds in dead air, you're ready to start picking air. Take a bubble machine or something like that to the field with you in relatively calm air with the sun shining and set the bubbles loose. Where they are rising is where you launch.

I actually don't use bubbles that much...the field I fly on has aquaculture ponds with cat tails. I've lifted some of the seed stalks for their fluffies, which are great for picking out lift. Just fill the air with those things and launch into the patches that are going up fast.

There you have it...go record some times! Cool
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Si2
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« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2011, 11:00:20 AM »

Well, thanks very much for the encouraging words.
I'm really enjoying popping planes about, no matter what times I'm recording.

I neglected to finish my stabilisers with anything on the last two planes I built - I guess I learned a lesson there.
Weather looks awesome tonight, so I might hit the skies again.
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« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2011, 11:14:50 AM »

I'd say that no finish fits the category of "not enough finish" quite nicely! Grin

I use two coats of Minwax on all my stabs now to keep them flat and stable.


Tony
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Si2
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« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2011, 06:36:13 AM »

I'm off to buy some minwax - I guess any polyurethane varnish will do the job.... or has Minwax got some special properties?
I made some more stabs last night but I have not fitted them yet.
I also made another Katze L but changed the wing shape and the decalage to 0.
The weather was awesome last night but I had to stay in with the kids while the wife went out.
Hoping to get out tonight.
Si2
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« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2011, 07:39:00 AM »

Quote
I'm off to buy some minwax - I guess any polyurethane varnish will do the job

You can't get Minwax in the UK, or at least you couldn't when I last looked. The Minwax people I e-mailed suggested Ronseal, but any polyurethane varnish will do, and the own-brand ones from the likes of B&Q or Wickes are just as good and much cheaper. Get the solvent based type (thinned with white spirit) as the water soluble quick dry stuff raises the grain a lot.

Having said all that I'll now admit that I only use poly varnish on my wings. Tmat will no doubt deem this to be a heinous crime, but I just give my tails & fins a couple of coats of 50/50 dope/thinners followed by a wafting of fluoro Roll Eyes. Provided you use 1/4 Grain wood I've not found warps to be a problem, and that includes much flying in the rain, and when there is dew on the grass. Normally the tails get dog eared through tree/arrival damage over the years and are replaced at that time rather than through warping. As the saying goes, life's too short to stuff a mushroom Grin

Save your money and get some decent 1/4 grain from Flighthook!

Peter
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Si2
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« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2011, 05:21:00 AM »

Pete
Thanks for the tips, I found some poly varnish in the shed - scooped out the crunchy bits and thinned it down a tad and it looks OK!

I've just visited the Flite hook site and they are located about 15 miles up the coast from me, so I'll be ordering some quality wood and hoping they do doorstep sales... Grin

I've not managed to find anyone really local who can supply 1/32nd, so it'll be good to get a sheet for stabs to save me having to sand down 1/16th.

The weather took a turn for the worse again yesterday, but I have a park trip planned for Sunday not matter what.

I built a katze based CLG last night with carbon sided fuselage, long tail moment, deeper wing in a triangular section and zero decalage. Seems to glide well across the kitchen. I can only guess at what it'll do when pinged sky high. Undecided

I'm running out of good wood now, I only got a couple of decent sheets.

I'm really enjoying creating planes again, although the other hobbies in my loft are getting covered in deep layers of very light dust!

Si2
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« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2011, 05:19:41 AM »

I took this handful across the park on Sunday with the kids.
Three dog chews, and old dog ear, a 6" CLG based loosely around the krazy katze, a krazy katze and two new dog ears built as light as possible.
Wind was a mild 3mph and the sun was out and very bright.
The krazy katze just dissapeared - one launch and it was gone, the bright sunshine, the speed, the triple loop launch, the small size and the ring of trees all contributed to what felt like something from the twilight zone - I didn't even see it climb, it just went....

So then the chuckies came out - the kids had one each and I had the nice light Dog ears. These are such great designs. The boys succeeded in breaking theirs after about 20 minutes of wild flinging and I was careful about my flights because of the proximity of a lot of trees. I did some nice light launches with good wide circles and a slow sink rate.

Then I grabbed the new CLG and gave it a tentative ping. A beautiful climb, almost straight up and a nice roll into glide about thirty feet up. two nice circles and a smooth glide to earth.
So then I decided it worked too well to be careful... I pinged it at about three quarters draw and saw it climb and settle. But this time it's loop brought it around and out wide - heading for the top of the biggest tree...
It landed gently right at the very top.
I then spent the next hour climbing to the very top to retrieve it...

So a glorious day of model glider flying, climbing trees and skinning my knees and elbows. I rediscovered my childhood.

I did get the plan back and spent a few hours after the kids went to bed pinging it about in the dead twiglight air.
I'll take the stop watch later and time it - not seeing much over 25 seconds though.

I've got another 6" CLG on the build bench as seemed to go very well. I need to find a good 8" now.
Off to the model shop at lunch time to grab some more wood.

Si
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