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Author Topic: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009  (Read 3565 times)
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Russ Lister
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« on: July 22, 2008, 06:52:39 PM »

I have just read in the SAM 1066 online newsletter that there will be a celebration event in the UK for the 50th year of George Fuller's 'Dixielander' design in 2009.
This event coincides with my own 50th birthday ... I am not one for parties for myself, so what better excuse than to attend this party so that I can get out of the way! (my wife IS one for parties)
I have never built a gas duration model however - would this be a suitable introductory model? (I must add that I am not a raw beginner if you do not know me already)

Russ
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applehoney
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« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2008, 10:50:22 PM »

Well, Russ .. they sold 6000 kits and there weren't that many 'experts' so you should be okay. It's a stable, forgiving airplane and if you don't overpower it too much you shouldn't have any problems.

One of our Leeds glider flyers, Jack Kay - sadly long since departed - built a Dixie as his first-ever power model. It was also his last-ever. He fired up the AM35 (am pretty sure it was the 35), got all excited and let go.... hadn't set the timer or lit a fuse... perfect pattern... up out of sight.. never seen again.

You won't do that, will ya?
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Ployd
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« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2008, 07:52:20 AM »

Hi Russ

Heartily endorse the D/lander as THE ideal introductory open power model if you have never flown a gas model. I'm working on my 4th at the moment (much modified but in essence a D/lander). Use a good PAW 2.5, OS 15 or 19, Cox TD 15 or any light 2.5 diesel or glow or a PAW 09 CT diesel.
The only mod I would recommend is to reduce the wing warps shown on the plan by 1/2, doesn't need any more.

Ployd in OZ
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« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2008, 08:12:48 AM »

Good on yer Russ

I recently bought a batch of 80's Aeromodellers at MW, and it just so happens that the Aug 86 one has an article by Pete Harris on Dixielanders and SLOP trimming in general. As a sport power flyer only (I can't call E30 & CO2 power!) I found the advice to be easily understood, and based on what my southern "noisy boys" chums tell me, spot on. As you probably know, until his untimely death at Barkston a few years ago, Peter was a power flyer par excellence.

If you don't have the issue, send me an e-mail & I'll pop a copy in the post.

Peter
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Russ Lister
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« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2008, 06:28:25 PM »

Thanks for the advice all ... I do feel as though it is one of those things that I haven't done that I would at least like to try. Even though I would feel a bit out of it amongst the experienced flyers this event is bound to draw, it would at least show that the design is still attracting new builders.
I would try to avoid the temptation I regularly succumb to with other gas designs ... a conversion to electric ...
The article also calls for people from overseas that cannot make it to the meeting to organise something in their own country ...

Thanks for the offer (once again) Peter - I have a feeling that I might have that Aeromodeller so I will have have a check first thanks.
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« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2008, 05:37:39 PM »

Just to keep the juices flowing, here's the little 3 view from the Aeromodeller at about the time the kit was released.

I've built 2 - one had quite a lot of mods (VIT and A/R for instance), and my current one is std. with Cox TD15. Speaking personally I would opt for a smoother running engine than the Cox, the vibration in my current model is not pleasant. An OS I think might be a better bet.

Dave Hipperson wrote extensively in the early/mid 90's (Aeromodeller again) in a series 'A Cautious Return to Power Flying' which was framed around the Dixielander - that's a series worth seeking out.

John
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applehoney
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« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2008, 06:58:54 PM »

I told George over fifty years ago that I didn't like that tall ugly pylon! Never built one because of it ... Grin

I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.... it's still a great airplane.
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« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2008, 11:38:30 PM »

Jim might be interested to know that the Dixielander was the first "big" power model I ever built. I found the plan in an old aeromodeller that was loaned to me by a friend of my father's. I used a cox t.d. 15 and a homemade timer that used the innards from a camera timer. The model flew great and floated very slowly. Stable and forgiving is what I'd call it. But to my 15 year old eyes it was too slow! By then I was used to my 1/2A models that climbed much faster than the Dixielander. Incidentally, while on the subject of vintage UK power models, my very first free flight power model was a Slowworm. It also flew great. It wasn't long before I made them with much thinner lower cambered airfoils and got them moving pretty fast!
In fact, my first FAI power model (Frank Schlacta's Loon design if you must know) seemed slow to me too! And that was with a Rossi!

Tmat
-the Dixielander brings back memories...
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« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2008, 02:47:07 PM »

It's pretty slow in the Power section these days (other than Scott's steady output), so what better time to remind readers of what Russ said at the top of this thread.
It's also snowing in the Vancouver area as I type (a pretty rare event it must be said), and naturally one's thoughts are turning to the building board and what to put on it.
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applehoney
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« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2008, 07:13:59 PM »

Quote
Frank Schlacta's Loon design if you must know) seemed slow to me too!

Ah, yes, Tony..... but Frank's airplanes of that time were SO much faster coming down ...... Tongue
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« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2008, 07:05:06 PM »

We should get some discussion on building Dixielanders going.
It is, of course supremely simple to build - at least the airframe is. What is not so easy is the engine mount/tank/pylon arrangement - that is, I found it quite challenging. It would be quite easy to adapt to a bladder tank, but not so easy to fully accomodate a bladder. One of mine had a disc valve engine which required wholesale revision of the fuselage at the front, and the timer ended up behind the pylon.
Also the wings have been known to part in the middle as it can be quite a fast model with the right engine.
GM
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« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2009, 06:58:50 AM »

Hi Glidemaster

The best way to keep a Dixielander wing in one piece is to reinforce the centre joint with a single 3/32" ply dihedral keeper at the two spar lines and extend them into the second rib bay and web the spars in the two center panels with 1/32" vertical grain balsa; that will tame a hot 15 Wink If you use a Seelig timer it usually finishes up behind the pylon (anywhere else usually finishes up with a broken fuselage or a ripped out pylon... ask me about it Embarrassed ). If you do use a hot 15 then you can safely reduce the warps quoted on the plan, 3/8" is a bit much Shocked

As you will be aware there is a 50th anniversary event being flown in the Uk this year and a similar event is also being conducted in OZ. I have been task by our organisers to come up with a stick-on or transfer to mark the event and rough draft is shown below.

Ployd in OZ
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« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2009, 02:11:31 PM »

I will, with your permission, make a copy of the decal and blow it up to T shirt size. OK?
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Russ Lister
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« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2009, 04:43:12 PM »

Great design Ployd Smiley
I hope the Oz event is just as successful as I feel the UK event is going to be. As I mentioned before, power duration is not my usual thing, but I hope to be at the event in the UK even if just as a spectator.
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« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2009, 08:49:44 PM »

Hi faif2d
Be my guest, you are welcome to use it.

Ployd in OZ
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« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2009, 07:58:43 PM »

Great Sticker, Ployd - just perfect.
Are scaled versions going to be allowed? George himself had the E Type Dixie for Eta 29, and a bigger one for Fox 59. Dick Johnson had a big one for K&B 40 - then there was the John West variant and Lindstrum's Chiclander. Some of us discussed a 'Pixielander' 1/2A some time ago, too. They were all clearly identifiable as Dixielanders.

George also flew a slightly stretched version in Slow Open that I really liked - with an OS20FP - I wish I had a picture I could refer to; that one should have been published. A commercial engine mount and an upright engine solved some of the problems I refered to earlier.

John
- almost reaching for the wood box.
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« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2009, 09:16:45 PM »

Hi John

The answer is no; we have followed SAMS UK in that only the original kitted model is allowed (no scaling).
We have allowed builders to use geodetic wing and stab construction and to add nose ribs i.e first 30% of chord but no sheeting. Doing it this way allows the model to be used in open power or with a 1.5 cc diesel, OZ Diesel duration.

What we in OZ have done is arranged for a short kit to be produced with selected strip wood, laser cut ribs and a plan; a Tee shirt will come from George Fuller and I will be providing the stick-on transfer and an alternative Tee shirt iron-on. You could say we ised organized Grin

faif2d; If you want a bigger version without the degradation of scaling up the image posted here let me know offline.

Ployd in a HOT OZ (39C)
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glidermaster
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« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2009, 12:53:09 PM »

I had a letter from George Fuller at Christmas, congratulating me on my choice of Trad Lad for vintage FAI, and saying that he is very much enjoying flying electric these days. He said he likes the cleanliness, and thinks they will be as fast as gas models pretty soon. He promised me one of the T shirts, too!

Johnson/Fuller products came out with an updated kit in the early 70's (modified engine bearers, slightly stronger pylon, slightly taller fin with swept shape and A/R) - I guess that one's out too (I have the plan, if anyone's interested).

I'm heading to OZ in March, Ployd, turn the temperature down a little before I come, will you Smiley
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« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2009, 08:56:04 PM »

Hi glidermaster

I cannot promise you that the furnace temp will be turned down before you come out, part of the deal of living in a hot brown land Wink Where abouts will you be heading for down under? and bring some anti-nausia pills because you will be walking up side down and that takes a bit of getting use to Cheesy

As For the Fuller/Johnston products; nope, don't qualify either.

Ployd still in a HOT OZ (35c)
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« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2009, 08:12:33 AM »

Just got my first look at the commemorative Tee Shirt that will be available for the Dixielander event, bright enough Shocked

Ployd in OZ
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« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2009, 11:38:31 AM »

All,
A little late on the follow up but a comment and then a question. First FF power I ever saw was a Dixie with the ED246 in Huddersfield!! Flew like a charm, have loved them since!! Now I live in good ole Dixie!!!!

Any info on the shirts would be appreciated. Question, any one had any experience with an Oliver (repro not org!!!!) on pressure for the Dixie!!! What if any advantages are there?

Tks for the info on the build improvements will add.
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« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2009, 12:45:52 PM »

Quote
in Huddersfield

Surely you mean 'uddersfield ??  Grin
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« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2009, 07:39:05 PM »

AH,
I stand corrected!!! It is a long time since I have heard it put this way, memories!!!!
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glidermaster
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« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2009, 07:45:52 PM »

I have an Oliver repro (CS) and it is a fine motor - the only 'defect' being that the contra piston was rather tight.
No doubt you (and everyone) is aware that Olivers are now back in production - not in Dorset, anymore, but still using the original Oliver tooling, and overseen by Mr. Oliver himself. I believe deliveries have started, and in true Oliver fashion, I also believe there's a waiting list.

So far as using an Oliver as a powerplant for a Dixelander is concerned, I feel it might be rather heavy. For sure the model has an ultra short nose, but they balance on the trailing edge, and an Oliver might make tail ballast necessary. Not a huge deal, I suppose, but something to bear in mind.

John
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« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2009, 09:59:46 AM »

I also being a first timer for the attempt of flying power have selected the Dixielander... but I have other models to finish. I have gave some thoughts of trying a FOX engine. Any thoughts on this? I have also thought of obtaining a kit .... who should I contact? Wouldn't mind a shirt as well.

Thanks...
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